Day Jobs and other miserable realities

roger kryless · Jul 15, 2009

Of course one writes because of the sense of fulfillment, that's a given... so moving on from there...

for those of you who are published or soon to be published: have you decided to quit your 'day job' and make this a fulltime endeavor? Is it a dream to quit your day jobs?

A fairly successful author friend who has published a book that has done well, has sold approximately 30,000 copies of her book. I don't know normal stats, but that seems really good... yet, according to her, not enough, in terms of daily pragmatics, for her to quit her day job.

Any thoughts? What's a good # of copies to sell (i've seen the averages, but they are quite skewed when one considers the sampling biases. i'm wondering about more personal, recent experiences)? What do you perosnally think is a realistic, successful readership for a first book? Of course this is genre dependent, I'm particularly interested in commercial fiction/literary fiction, but any insight into other genre's is welcome.

Has this economy factored in your thoughts of definitions of success and day jobs, etc? Any candidness, openess and willingness to share with those of us who aspire to be published one day is much appreciated.

thank you,
-rk

MsGneiss · Jul 15, 2009

For me, the decision to quit my day-job will be based on the advance. Living in NYC, and considering my current salary and expenses, I doubt that anything less than a six-figure advance will allow me to quit my job. However, even if the advance is low, I may be inclined to take up writing full time if my first book gets good reviews and I feel confident with the novels in progress.

That's all hypothetical, of course, as I my prospects of publication are uncertain at the moment.

YAwriter72 · Jul 15, 2009

I have zero desire to quit my day job. Its in publishing and I love it and the benefits are absolutely amazing. My goal is to go 3 days a week when I get to the point of needing more time to write. (And if I can sell. If I get like 2 3-book deals, I might consider cutting back work a day a week) But i never plan on writing full time.

FOTSGreg · Jul 15, 2009

If the advance was sufficiently large to allow me to quit my day job and make sure my bills were paid and that I could continue to live comfortably for 3-5 years I'd probably quit. That's a pie in the sky dream for me. As a low-to-mid-list author when I initially get a book published I'll most likely have to keep my day job until I build a sufficient backlist that can keep me living comfortably in the style to which I'd like to become accustomed.

Claudia Gray · Jul 15, 2009

I'm going to try going full-time this fall. I made my first sale three years ago and closed a four-book deal earlier this year. So I know that I have the funds to live reasonably well (though I will be scaling my lifestyle back somewhat) for 2-3 years. If I am able to sell more books in that time, then I can remain FT longer. If not, back to the coal mines.

I will have to move away from New York City, which is depressing because I love it, but Manhattan just eats away at your savings; it makes more sense to try this someplace cheaper.

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

If I could take a 60% paycut and write full time, I would do it now. I would get up from my desk, leave my computer on THIS webpage, leave my cell phone, my xanax pills, and every personal possession I have sitting in my office, and leave.

I would move out to the f***ing country, sell my fancy car, liquidate everything I have if it meant I could write full time.

Does that clarify it?

Garpy · Jul 15, 2009

Sales under 50k and I would not be able to write full time. My sales exceed that, but that's accounting more than one book. But actually, what really makes the difference income-wise are all the little rights sales that trickle in throughout the year.....they add up and sometimes exceed the basic advance.

And never forget PLR income (library lending) that can pay for your annual family holiday.

Summonere · Jul 15, 2009

roger kryless said:
for those of you who are published or soon to be published: have you decided to quit your 'day job' and make this a fulltime endeavor?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Quit my job? Heck, no. The bucks I make from writing are small potatoes. But since my job recently quit me, maybe I should aim for bigger potatoes...[/FONT]

roger kryless said:
Is it a dream to quit your day jobs?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Yes. Absolutely. The timing seems to be a little off, though. (Perhaps the mighty Muses move mysteriously to motivate me...)
[/FONT]

NeuroFizz · Jul 15, 2009

I don't have a job, I have a career, and it provides just as much enjoyment as writing and many times the intellectual challenge. It also has benefits, a retirement system, and includes opportunities for some travel. And it continually places me in direct contact with so many interesting people. There is no way I could make the same salary in the near future through my writing. But I can do both, which makes it even sweeter and gives me no advantage or desire to quit for full-time writing. In fact, I'd give up writing before I'd give up my career. I'm a lucky man because I don't have to do either. And even in eventual retirement, I can keep my hand in my career field.

Thump · Jul 15, 2009

I'd love a job right now

I have time to write if I want it but I'm much more worried about the fact that my savings will have run out by September. Better to slave away and have a regular paycheck and get extra from writing than write, sell, run out of that money and have to find a new job when you haven't worked for a couple years, IMO.

That being said, I've never been published.

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
I don't have a job, I have a career, and it provides just as much enjoyment as writing and many times the intellectual challenge. It also has benefits, a retirement system, and includes opportunities for some travel. And it continually places me in direct contact with so many interesting people. There is no way I could make the same salary in the near future through my writing. But I can do both, which makes it even sweeter and gives me no advantage or desire to quit for full-time writing. In fact, I'd give up writing before I'd give up my career. I'm a lucky man because I don't have to do either. And even in eventual retirement, I can keep my hand in my career field.

I've been in my chosen career for 12 years. I travel all over the world for it, make a killer salary, and am in charge of my own products as well as hold several patents.

And I'd give it up in a heartbeat for a tiny salary, a brand new civic (that'll run for 300K miles) a farm and a ton of blank notebooks.

I've been there done that on the career front.

MsGneiss · Jul 15, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I've been in my chosen career for 12 years. I travel all over the world for it, make a killer salary, and am in charge of my own products as well as hold several patents.

And I'd give it up in a heartbeat for a tiny salary, a brand new civic (that'll run for 300K miles) a farm and a ton of blank notebooks.

I've been there done that on the career front.

It sounds like you might be in a financial position to do just that. Why wait? If you are willing to accept a 60% salary reduction, and are Ok moving to a location where the cost of living is lower, you should be able to manage your dream just fine. Lucky you.

MsGneiss · Jul 15, 2009

ClaudiaGray said:
I will have to move away from New York City, which is depressing because I love it, but Manhattan just eats away at your savings; it makes more sense to try this someplace cheaper.

I'm with you on that one. I can't bring myself to leave NY. Heck, I could write full time with a 3-figure advance if I were living in the distant burbs.

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

sleepsheep said:
It sounds like you might be in a financial position to do just that. Why wait? If you are willing to accept a 60% salary reduction, and are Ok moving to a location where the cost of living is lower, you should be able to manage your dream just fine. Lucky you.

I think you misunderstood. What I'm saying is, if I was earning money steadily enough from writing to account for 40% of my current salary, I would have problem leaving the city and moving to the country, lowering my expenses and living for much cheaper.

Current salary from writing: 0$. I have a LONG way to achieving my dream.

Edit: I'm originally from Tennessee and went to college up in the boonies, so I have no problem getting away from city life and returning to the rustic country dwellings. My brother's house cost like 65K I think.

CaroGirl · Jul 15, 2009

I have a career from which I make a very good salary. I've never really enjoyed my career, although I have had occasional bouts of satisfaction after the completion of a big project. However, in this economy and with my husband's company floundering, I'm thankful to have a job right now.

If the stars aligned, I'd drop my day job in a heartbeat to write full time. If my husband found stable employment that paid him a third more than what he makes now (which he's more than worth, IMO), if I managed to sell a novel for a decent advance, if, if, if, of course I'd want to be a full-time novelist. That would be a dream come true for me. As it is, I might have to wait until I retire to write full time, and that's assuming my brain hasn't addled with age by then.

I don't really understand the poll, nor what it has to do with the question, so I'll not answer that bit for now.

JamieMT · Jul 15, 2009

The problem with quitting my day job to write isn't just salary based for me. It's also pesky things like insurance, retirement, etc - stuff I'd have to take care of on my own if I ever quit my day job. That makes writing a more expensive proposition than just keeping my current job, even though I'm bored to death with it most of the time.

So it's not just a huge advance that I'd need to consider writing full time, but a steady, *good* income that I could count on so I wouldn't have to worry about how to pay for insurance, how to save for retirement, etc. Not that I'd need to retire from writing, but you never know what will happen later in life - better to be ready.

So I don't see myself giving up my day job ever - unless I end up making far more money than I can see happening at this point!

(I'm not published yet, just sending out first submissions next month)

DMarie84 · Jul 15, 2009

I only work part time as a real estate secretary. The pay is horrible (only slightly more than state's minimum wage) and they keep cutting back the hours I'm "allowed" to work. Hubby is the breadwinner of the family and I don't mind that in the slightest. We get insurance and retirement savings from that. Also, he's in a fairly stable field (IT work) but my job helps us to save up for real estate taxes that come twice a year and any other miscellaneous expenses.

If my book is published and I am able to market the heck out of it (meaning book tours and speaking engagements, even if on a small local or regional scale) I'd quit.

Being a real estate secretary was definitely not what I went to college for; in fact I'm pretty certain any competent high school student could do this job. Still, I am grateful I have it, even if it's far from what I like or envisioned myself doing. But if given a better opportunity and a chance at a different career, I'd quit in a heartbeat :tongue

MsGneiss · Jul 15, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I think you misunderstood. What I'm saying is, if I was earning money steadily enough from writing to account for 40% of my current salary, I would have problem leaving the city and moving to the country, lowering my expenses and living for much cheaper.

Current salary from writing: 0$. I have a LONG way to achieving my dream.

Edit: I'm originally from Tennessee and went to college up in the boonies, so I have no problem getting away from city life and returning to the rustic country dwellings. My brother's house cost like 65K I think.

No, I got that part. But you also indicated that your current salary is rather high, and that you also have plenty of assets. Liquidating the assets and moving to a locale where your savings are sufficient can give you the freedom to write until you get published. It's a risk, but less so than for most of us who don't have years of good-livin' to fall back on. Just saying, s'all.

errantruth · Jul 15, 2009

lucidzfl said:
If I could take a 60% paycut and write full time, I would do it now. I would get up from my desk, leave my computer on THIS webpage, leave my cell phone, my xanax pills, and every personal possession I have sitting in my office, and leave.

I would move out to the f***ing country, sell my fancy car, liquidate everything I have if it meant I could write full time.

Does that clarify it?

I'm trying to read between the lines here, to parse out your feelings, so vaguely expressed as to be incomprehensible.

You are saying you hate writing, right?

*dodges flying bullets*

;-) hee hee....

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

sleepsheep said:
No, I got that part. But you also indicated that your current salary is rather high, and that you also have plenty of assets. Liquidating the assets and moving to a locale where your savings are sufficient can give you the freedom to write until you get published. It's a risk, but less so than for most of us who don't have years of good-livin' to fall back on. Just saying, s'all.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I came across wrong. By liquidate, I mean, big farking garage sale!

Also, I wish I could claim to have massive savings, but alas, I just got married, and I wiped out my savings to do it. On the plus side, I don't have a dollar in credit card debt.

Unfortunately, even if I started getting published tomorrow, it would likely be at least 5 years before I could responsibly leave my current career. Its still just a pie in the sky dream for me.

And this is operating on the massive assumption that anything I write is either good enough to publish or interesting enough to be sellable.

I'm going to die at 40 from a massive heart attack at my desk aren't I?

MsGneiss · Jul 15, 2009

lucidzfl said:
Oh, I see what you're saying. I came across wrong. By liquidate, I mean, big farking garage sale!

Also, I wish I could claim to have massive savings, but alas, I just got married, and I wiped out my savings to do it. On the plus side, I don't have a dollar in credit card debt.

Unfortunately, even if I started getting published tomorrow, it would likely be at least 5 years before I could responsibly leave my current career. Its still just a pie in the sky dream for me.

And this is operating on the massive assumption that anything I write is either good enough to publish or interesting enough to be sellable.

I'm going to die at 40 from a massive heart attack at my desk aren't I?

Hmm, I reckon you did present your financial situation as something most of us simply dream about. But I also understand your point about waiting for publication. I don't have cars I'd be willing to downgrade, but I also feel that I wouldn't be able to sustain my current level of expenses even with a very good first sale. I think it would take at least two, or maybe three.

cwfgal · Jul 15, 2009

For a few years I managed to do just what you're saying...quit my day job and write full time. I'm a nurse by day -- actually by night --and I left the profession for several years because I made enough from my writing to live quite comfortably. But the income from my novels wasn't enough by itself even though each book earned me between $40K and $45K total. That money was spread out over so many years and it was so unpredictable that living off it was pretty much impossible. So I did a lot of freelancing to pay the bills. Most of it was articles for various health-related magazines, though I did fall into a book reviewer job that was sweet. Basically I got paid to read fiction (my favorite thing to do) and write reviews on what I read. I eventually let the other freelancing stuff go because I hated it. I started to dread sitting at the computer. I found it hard to summon up any enthusiasm for my fiction writing after a day of cranking out articles and brochure copy. For a couple of years, writing fiction and reviewing fiction seemed like the perfect job marriage.

But the great pay I was getting for the reviews went bye-bye and the pay cut was big enough that I couldn't afford to keep at it. Plus I had lost my publisher and my agent by then, so my career as a novelist was tanking pretty seriously. And I found that I really, really missed nursing.

So I went back to nursing and haven't looked back since. I work in an ER and love it. The fodder it provides me in terms of characterizations and plots and situations is invaluable. And I found that the isolation I experienced while working from home all the time stifled my creativity a fair amount. Working with funny, intelligent, outspoken, and slightly jaded people is stimulating.

I'm finally back as a novelist though I'm not yet making enough at it to live on. But even if I was, I'd stay with my ER job part time because I love it and because it provides me with a) steady predictable income, and b) benefits. (The benefit issue was definitely a downer when it came to working solely at home.)

My goal now is to make enough from my writing to augment my retirement income so I can live comfortably and keep on writing. Though if the stock market doesn't do some serious rebounding in the next 12 years, retirement may never come.

Beth

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

sleepsheep said:
Hmm, I reckon you did present your financial situation as something most of us simply dream about. But I also understand your point about waiting for publication. I don't have cars I'd be willing to downgrade, but I also feel that I wouldn't be able to sustain my current level of expenses even with a very good first sale. I think it would take at least two, or maybe three.

Sorry if I misrepresented. I'm definitely not in happy-dream land.

And I know what you mean about needing some good sales. I have absolutely no misgivings about the fact that even once I'm published it would take a LOT of books under my belt before I got anything resembling an advance that could pay any bills.

I've read that newauthors can expect first advances to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000 usd. Of that, you get half up front. Afterwards, if your book doesn't sell enough to recoup costs, you may never even see the second half of the advance.

If thats the case, I have a long, painful road ahead of me. Good thing I like writing for free!

lucidzfl · Jul 15, 2009

cwfgal said:
For a few years I managed to do just what you're saying...quit my day job and write full time. I'm a nurse by day -- actually by night --and I left the profession for several years because I made enough from my writing to live quite comfortably. But the income from my novels wasn't enough by itself even though each book earned me between $40K and $45K total. That money was spread out over so many years and it was so unpredictable that living off it was pretty much impossible. So I did a lot of freelancing to pay the bills. Most of it was articles for various health-related magazines, though I did fall into a book reviewer job that was sweet. Basically I got paid to read fiction (my favorite thing to do) and write reviews on what I read. I eventually let the other freelancing stuff go because I hated it. I started to dread sitting at the computer. I found it hard to summon up any enthusiasm for my fiction writing after a day of cranking out articles and brochure copy. For a couple of years, writing fiction and reviewing fiction seemed like the perfect job marriage.

But the great pay I was getting for the reviews went bye-bye and the pay cut was big enough that I couldn't afford to keep at it. Plus I had lost my publisher and my agent by then, so my career as a novelist was tanking pretty seriously. And I found that I really, really missed nursing.

So I went back to nursing and haven't looked back since. I work in an ER and love it. The fodder it provides me in terms of characterizations and plots and situations is invaluable. And I found that the isolation I experienced while working from home all the time stifled my creativity a fair amount. Working with funny, intelligent, outspoken, and slightly jaded people is stimulating.

I'm finally back as a novelist though I'm not yet making enough at it to live on. But even if I was, I'd stay with my ER job part time because I love it and because it provides me with a) steady predictable income, and b) benefits. (The benefit issue was definitely a downer when it came to working solely at home.)

My goal now is to make enough from my writing to augment my retirement income so I can live comfortably and keep on writing. Though if the stock market doesn't do some serious rebounding in the next 12 years, retirement may never come.

Beth

If I was writing for a career, I'd never retire. You'd find me, with a half empty bottle of jack daniels in one hand and a pen in the other, slumped over my wooden rolltop desk. ( I do not, currently, own a wooden rolltop desk )

Diana Hignutt · Jul 15, 2009

I will die in this chair at work, like it or not, whether or not I make millions off of writing, or my side business, or end up in public office. This place is my duty, my hell, my joy. Hopefully, I'll get a new chair before I die though. I'm in no hurry.

Day Jobs and other miserable realities

What's successful readership for you, personally? (Whatever your genre)

100-2500

2500-5000

5000-10000

10000-50000

50000+

someone let me off this crazy ride

Today is your last day.

Back from the dead

keyboard monkey

The grad students did it

defying grabbity

Back from the dead

Back from the dead

Living the dream

Lurker in the Corner

I wish I had a time machine

Back from the dead

On the rocks

Back from the dead

Back from the dead

Very Tired