Door opens- help needed from board elders

Wow!

What a great opportunity! I'm not a pro, but this is what I'd do - immediately contact (in writing or by email, depending on what seems appropriate to you) the agent(s) that expressed interest to thank them for being so encouraging at the event, and let them know you are putting finishing touches on your manuscript and expect to send it to them very soon. Then I'd send it when it was ready with another nice note reminding them of the prior contact. I don't think I'd mention the professional editor to them.

Is there any chance that your first 3 chapters have already been edited and that you can buy yourself time by sending these agents a partial? If you have to choose between waiting or sending something you think is lower quality, I would wait. You only get one chance to make a first impression - yes, its a cliche, but you should always send whatever you think has the best chance of being publishable. Agents make money selling books. If they are interested in it now, they still will be in a couple of months if the material is good.

Also, whatever you do, when you send whatever you send (do not let this opportunity go by) mark the envelope "requested material" and mention in your cover letter that they requested the manuscript at such and such an event.

I agree

I agree with Ketzel but why not mention the professional edit? Even Steven King pays his own editors before he submits his manuscripts, doesn't he?

But, hey, Nateskate, I'd definately take advantage (in a nice way) of the opportunities presented. Best of luck! (Are you a member of MKF?)

<I> Even Steven King pays his own editors before he submits his manuscripts, doesn't he?</I>

No, he doesn't.

But ... okay, what I'd do. Send query letters to everyone who gave you a business card, mentioning the event and asking if they'd like to see three-and-an-outline.

For those who do want to see it, send what you have.

No edit will change an unpublishable book into a publishable one. If what you have is publishable, your current best draft will be publishable. (Agents can look past the rough edges to see what a book would be like with a proper edit.)

Now, you virtually have to give a publisher something shelf-ready.

That really isn't true either. The reason publishers have folks called "editor" on staff is to work with you to make your book the best it can be.

If you get an agent, and the agent makes editing suggestions, by all means consider them.

To expand on that a bit ... you'll hear a lot of writers talking about how now-a-days editors just want to slam stuff through the pipeline, not like the good old days when editors edited by golly!

The gold old days are about ten years before whichever writer you're talking to first published.

And you'll find those same complaints by writers in their letters, year after year, all the way back to the nineteen twenties.

Send it.

I agree with Uncle Jim all the way. Send the query letter, send the chapters and outline, then be very patient.

Edits are nice, but they don't help an unpublishable book, and a publishable book doesn't need them. And if you aren't confident about your own editing ability, what will you do when you have to do some heavy rewriting and editing in very short order should someone want the book?

Oh, I suspect the notion that editors don't edit today is another one of the myths perpetrated by the self-publishing companies and such places as Publish America. Don't believe it for a second. It may be tough to find a Maxwell Perkins these days, but it was just as difficult in the old days.

If editors sat around waiting for shelf ready books, very darned little would ever get published. Editors do their job, which is to edit. If they can help a book, they help it. There are some darned good editors out there, and all they expect is a book they can help, not one that's perfect.

King

SheliaRudesill said:

I agree with Ketzel but why not mention the professional edit? Even Steven King pays his own editors before he submits his manuscripts, doesn't he?

Click to expand...

I'm curious where this idea came from? The only editors writers have are the ones who work for the publishing companies, and we don't pay them, the publisher does.

It just strikes me as an odd notion. I don't think I've met anyone who thought writers pay editors, especially professional writers.

I remember reading that somewhere---a rumor mill kinda thing, about King and other pro's paying editors. Not true. But if I recall where I saw it I'll let you know.

Shawn

Editors

SRHowen said:

I remember reading that somewhere---a rumor mill kinda thing, about King and other pro's paying editors. Not true. But if I recall where I saw it I'll let you know.

Shawn

Click to expand...

I'd be grateful. It seems to me that many such rumors are all over the internet, and I strongly suspect most of them are started by self-publishing companies, but those trying to sell their editorial wares, etc.

Probably nothing I can do about it, but all the flat out untruths on the internet really annoy me. New writers read such things, and with no one to say otherwise, believe them.

and new writers also latch onto ideas that fit what they thought in the first place, that secret key to getting in the door---

I'll try to find where I saw the one about King---

King

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Steven King stated that “rumor” himself in his book "On Writing." If I had a copy of it I’d look it up.



When I made the statement, I added, “...doesn’t he?” I didn’t start a rumor or state a fact.

If I've made a mistake it's the first one I've ever made in my whole dern life!

You've been presented with great opportunities. Seize the day and run with it. It's better to do it then sweat about it later (do make sure you have a kick-a$$ query and 3+).

Regret is a b!tch.

Well anyway, congrats, Nate!

It seems to me that if these people expressed interest, they must've liked the concept. You could beat yourself up asking whether this golden opportunity came too soon, but I'd take it as a sign. What's to loose?

Nateskate said:

In answering your question, "Is it publishable now?" Wow, that's a humbling question. But for me, that was never my standard to begin with. This book was never about getting my feet wet by getting one published, and then one-upping myself as I go. I'd have done a simpler project. I've already invested so much into this story, and at this point I'll go the extra mile for what I've been shooting for. And that's to write a classic. Anything short of that is far below my goal. If I knew I couldn't make it there, I'd seek a co-author, seek someone who could make it that, or quit. I believe story one is there. I want to make double sure the punctuation...etc is there. And if there is any kind of sprucing that would make it better, I'm open to doing that.

Now I realize that once the story is out there, I can't control markets, or what happens next. I can't even control whether I'm breathing next week-though I'll give it my best. So, beyond that it could wind up the best story never read. But if there are only ten readers who read my story, I want them to feel something touch them so deep; that it is to them what 'Lord of the Rings' was to me.

This came up in conversation today. Years ago, they'd pair an author with an editor. Now, you virtually have to give a publisher something shelf-ready. And the agents have become the editors, at least for books they feel are worth their efforts. So, with the goal I've set, I really want someone who is a cut above average to not just get this publishable, but near flawless.

Click to expand...

Hi Nateskate, and congratulations! The advice already given is good but what yousay above makes me think that you won't be happy unless your book is as good as you can possible make it - not just publishable. I can'ttell you what to do but I can tell you what I did in a similar situation.
I've been revising my current work for six months now; after every revision, I feel its publishable, but then I go over it again and find so much to change, the previous efforts seem embarassing. I can't believe I sent it (as a partial) into agents four months ago, and I don't blame them for rejecting it.

Some time ago I started yet another major overhaul, and at the same time, sent in partials to two agents; one of whom I feel would be perfect for me. As I got deeper into the revision I found it would take more time than I originally planned.

Meanwhile, two weeks after I had sent in the partial one of those agents called me, the one who was my first choice. We had a long telephone conversation. She had even read my amazon reviews for my last books, seen my website. She wanted to know all about my past work and plans for the future. Her reader had loved the partial and passed it on to her. She was more than interested and wanted the full, exclusively. I told her I was in the middle of a major revison, gave her an estimate of the time needed, and promised her the full. I am very hopeful now that this IS my agent; and if so, I know the waiting won't hurt the process.

I know very well that if I had sent in the version I had at the time, which is vastly inferior to what I DID finally send in and yet certainly publishable, I would not be happy even if she did accept it. I would still want to make those changes; I feel that my work demands it and I can't rest until it is done. Even if a publisher said it's great as it is, let's publish, and here's your advance, I think I'd refuse until that work is done.

I sent in the full a few days ago and since then I have started yet another revision, with an even finer-toothed comb. I am beginning to regret not waiting a few more weeks, for this revision to be over!

And the point of all this is that my favourite publisher, several months ago, asked for the full manuscript. All this is in preparation for that submission. I am trying to avoid the mistakes of the past.

Two of my books were published to a tight schedule, to a deadline. I was not given the time to let them rest and see what else could be done, nor even to give them that last polish. Up to this day I feel terrible about those books. I was never able to read them once they were out. I managed to pursuade my pulishger to let me do some revision to the third one between hardcover and paperback editions, but I know it's still not what I wanted. I had trouble promoting those two books - I felt guilty. I feel bad giving out free copies to friends. They embarass me.

From what you say, this agent has not yet seen a sample of your work; what if you send it in as it is now, and he rejects it? Would you ever be able to forgive yourself for not waiting?

And, there seems to be some sort of stigma attached to a professional editor... well, if I could afford one at the moment, I would not hesitate to use one. I did use one for my first book. Perhaps there is less of a stigma here in the UK. Anyway, that professional critique was my direct path into publishing; after I'd made my changes she passed it straight on to an agent, who immediately snapped it up and had a publisher for it within a week.

In other words: I'd always wait if it means a better book, no matter how publishable it is at the moment. It seems to me you have the highest aspirations for this book; if so, then it's worth the wait, and the agent will understand. What's a few weeks now, if your book is to be in print a hundred years from now!

It's true that professional writers don't usually employ paid editors. It's also true that I had a good editor in my publishing house; an excellent one, in fact. But she was not at all concerned with making my writing the best that it could be, or in grpwing me as an author, or in stretching me to produce my best work. Al that was entirely up to me, and I have to admit that I got lazy; and then, there was simply not the time once I had done the content revisions.

If I was in any way dissatisfied with my work and felt I couldn't fix it myself, I'd go to a professional editor, even if I was with a publisher; that is, before submitting my work. For my own satisfaction.

stephen king's ideal reader

SheliaRudesill said:

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Steven King stated that “rumor” himself in his book "On Writing." If I had a copy of it I’d look it up.



When I made the statement, I added, “...doesn’t he?” I didn’t start a rumor or state a fact.

If I've made a mistake it's the first one I've ever made in my whole dern life!

Click to expand...

I have that book in front of me now, and can't find anything that says he pays an editor (then again, I just flipped through it).

But he spends a whole chapter detailing the process of having his wife critique all his work, and he empahsises the importance of having an Ideal Reader go over it with an eagle eye and show you its flaws. Inthe context of this thread, I think I'll quote!

...I believe that most people smart enough to read a novel are also tactful enough tofind a gentler mode of expression than "This sucks". (Although most of us know that "I think this has a few problems" actually means "This sucks", don't we? - Stephen King

Click to expand...

I absolutely do not have anyone, neither a husband nor a friend, who would have any idea how to cirtique my work to the degree of professionality I'd demand. I'm doing the best I can on my own, but I would dearly love to have a professional editor look at it befoe I submit it, both to increase its chances of acceptance, and for my own satisfaction. If necessary, I'd pay for this service, if I could afford to, which I can't right now. Some people are lucky to have reasders with the right eye, who will do it for free. I'm not so lucky.

Generally, I find that there are not so many literary sharks in the UK as in the US; I've certainly not heard of the rampant scams over here that you seem to suffer there. No equivalent of PublishAmerica. The professional editor I used for my first book was excellent. She used to work for Penguin, and has a gerat team of readers who are themselves publsiehd authors. I find nothing at all wrong with the concept.

James D. Macdonald said:

No edit will change an unpublishable book into a publishable one. If what you have is publishable, your current best draft will be publishable.

Click to expand...

When I was moderating a panel on literary scams at the 2000 WorldCon, Gordon Van Gelder&#151;the editor (and now publisher) of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, and at that time an acquiring editor at St. Martin's Press&#151;was asked his reaction to manuscripts that came to him trumpeting "professionally edited" in the cover letter. His response was:
He later remarked that as far as he could recall, the "professional editing" had never been the difference in his own acquisition decisions, or of any editor he knew.

Jaws said:

When I was moderating a panel on literary scams at the 2000 WorldCon, Gordon Van Gelder—the editor (and now publisher) of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, and at that time an acquiring editor at St. Martin's Press—was asked his reaction to manuscripts that came to him trumpeting "professionally edited" in the cover letter. His response was:

Professionally edited manuscripts are slightly less unpublishable than the rest of the slush pile.​

He later remarked that as far as he could recall, the "professional editing" had never been the difference in his own acquisition decisions, or of any editor he knew.

Click to expand...

That may be so. But what I read again and again on these boards - and in every writing book I read, including Stephen King - is a need for an outside opinion fromsomeone who is not your mother, your aunt or your dog. Somepne who can tell you wear the flaws lie and where to correct them. If you have a friend or a spouse who can do this fine. But if you haven't, what then?

At the time I finished my first novel I was desperate for such an assessment, and I got it. Her advice was gold worth; and she was the direct link to publishing.

Having a professional editor does not mean you go trumpeting it around, and certainly not in a query letter - but neither is it something to be ashamed of.
I don't think the comment by your editor above makes much sense. I know that many first time authors in the UK HAVE been professionally edited, and that it has made the difference between being published an dnot being published. Certainly, there must be many mansucripts in the slush pile to which editing wil never make a difference. But what about those which only need that professional eye to get in there?
Many of them who shared my own editor are now best selling authors. They may not return to such an editor once they are published; but in my case, if I were to find that my current ms was currently being rejected, i would certainly send it in to her again.

I think Nakeskate is right to go ahead with his editor, if he feels (s)he the need for it.

Nateskate said:

The publishers used to work with talent because way back when, before Word Processors and the likes, it was such a major chore to write/type a manuscript. They weren't swamped with material. When I read of poor Tolkien, and revisions made, I can't imagine not being able to punch in and punch out a sentence, and having to redo not only a whole page, but sometimes an entire chapter stroke for stroke.

Click to expand...

I think this hits the nail onthe head. Before word processors, you had to be REALLY determined (and more than a little obsessed) to finish writing a novel.

the trouble with writing, unlike with the other arts, is that we all have the tools. We all use words on a daily basis, and everybody has a story of a sort, and everybody thinks their own story is riveting. I can't count the times I've been told by someone that they have a great story and I should write it, we'll share the profit.

Whereas nbobody imagines they could become a famous musician, or artist, or ballerina, overnight, becoming a famous (and rich!) novelist seems easy. Look at all the blogs flying around the internet these days. And the legions of people self-publishing and vanity publishing. There are simply too many manuscripts to go through.

The first agent I ever had told me that these days a novel does have to be almost perfect to get accepted. She worked very hard with me to get that book right for publication; and even then it was rejected (thank goodness!)

When choosing a professional editor one of course needs to be as wary as when choosing an agent. A good editor will be able to show a list of authors who, through her help, were able to get published.