"Begin Credits", can it be in a spec script?

No.

ricetalks said:

No.

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Ditto.

In Hollywood the director rules the roost, and only the director can make the judgement call for when credits start to roll. The only time a writer gets to do that is if he's simultaneously the director (such as M. Knight), or else if he's simultaneously one of the higher-ranking producers with loads more clout/power than the director (such as George Lucas). And in either instance, such a writer is not writing a script that would ever be classified as "spec" script. Instead he's writing the script as a vanity script or as a passion project.

A true "spec" script is a "speculative" script or a "speculator's" script where the writer is hoping/praying/speculating that somebody somewhere might like his script enough to actually produce it -- which means he is a super duper low-on-the-totem-pole writer. He might be a good writer, he might be a previously-sold writer, but he's still just hoping/praying/speculating. So as long as he's standing firmly in the world of "spec writing" he has to play by the rules that govern such scripts.

What they said. You can probably get away with a montage in the first ten pages which implies some sort of credit sequence anyway. But generally there is the Theme Stated first page or so, and then a beat announcing the beginning of the story. The director and editor know what to do. (If that's you, OK, then.)

I have a different opinion.

There are no rules for or against it. No one will judge you or your script as being amateur because of "BEGIN CREDITS." All that "don't direct the film" or "that's the actor's job" stuff is film school/screenwriting book propanganda. As the writer, do whatever you must to communicate your story to the reader and elicit an emotional response.

However, what's the purpose? If you're going for some "clever" gimmick that includes the credits into the the visual look of the film or you want to break up some kind of action with "BEGIN CREDITS," then go for it.

If you're doing it just for the sake of doing it, why pull the reader out of the story for something so technical and pointless?

I don't think the answer is "no." The answer is "why?"

I wrote a scene for after the credits and asked the director if it was it was okay. He was delighted. I wrote it to be damn creepy and to leave the audence with that feeling. I think if you have a good reason to write it in then do so. I wouldn't do it just because I didn't know what else to do because it is obvious that there will be credits. If you are being creative and it serves some purpose then I say go ahead. A little creativity may be what the director or porducer is looking for. All that might happen is that you may be rejected. But face it, you most probably will be rejected anyway. Almost all of us are rejected most of the time. You never know what will sell someone so go ahead and hope that is the little thing that sparks an interest on the part of the producer, director, or actor.

Oh, and I sold that script with the scene after the credits.

creativexec said:

I have a different opinion.

There are no rules for or against it. No one will judge you or your script as being amateur because of "BEGIN CREDITS." All that "don't direct the film" or "that's the actor's job" stuff is film school/screenwriting book propanganda. As the writer, do whatever you must to communicate your story to the reader and elicit an emotional response.

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I totally agree with creativeexec. As I mentioned on another thread recently the concept of "don't direct from the page" is so misunderstood, that many writer's don't tell the story from the page for fear of treading on the director's or actor's territory.

What pegs a writer as an amateur is the writing. Poor dramatization, lack of character development, dialogue that is bland, on the nose and lacking in subtext, no thematic clarity, lack of structure, lack of conflict, . You can normally peg an amateur script in the first few pages.

I also agree with CE as to the "why" of including "begin credits". If there's no good reason to do it, then don't do it, but if you have a reason then by all means put it in.

Plot Device said:

A true "spec" script is a "speculative" script or a "speculator's" script where the writer is hoping/praying/speculating that somebody somewhere might like his script enough to actually produce it -- which means he is a super duper low-on-the-totem-pole writer. He might be a good writer, he might be a previously-sold writer, but he's still just hoping/praying/speculating. So as long as he's standing firmly in the world of "spec writing" he has to play by the rules that govern such scripts.

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I'd be quite curious as to where you got this impression, Plot. While writers as a group, tend to be lower on the totem pole than directors, actors and in some cases the craft services guy - I have never known spec writers to be lower on the pole than writers for hire, in fact they might get treated a little better - they're selling a completed commodity as opposed to trying to get work. Optioning a spec costs less than hiring someone to write a script (at least it should).

A first time out spec writer can sell a script for seven figures - rare but it does happen, however a new writer will never get a million dollar fee to write a script. They have no track-record.

I worked in development for years and couldn't even hazard a guess at the number of specs I read and I was never looking to see if the writer had the audacity to direct from the page or break the rules. I was looking for a good story, one that hooked me on page one and carried me through to page 110. I was looking for commercial viability, castability and whether the project fit into our slate. And whether I was developing a spec script or a project that originated in-house - there was no difference in the way the writers were perceived or treated.

I've also had numerous scripts optioned by different producers and I've been hired by several other production cos. to write or rewrite projects - and there was no discernable difference in the way I was treated between the optioners and the hirers - with the exception that the optioned projects had considerably larger paydays should the purchase go through, than the assignment jobs.

There were rewrites performed on the optioned projects. If anything the producers on the optioned scripts were less adamant with their rewrite ideas on the optioned scripts than on the projects I was hired to work on. Perhaps it's because the original story was mine, or maybe it was because the project was optioned, so at that point, the producers didn't own the project, and statistically speaking, there was a good chance the rights would eventually revert back to me.

Your job as a spec writer is to a craft an entertaining, dramatic and commercially viable screenplay. Your job as a writer for hire is to craft an entertaining, dramatic and commercially viable screenplay. The only real difference is that when you're hired to write a project you may be provided with specific mandates regarding what should or should not be in the script.

But, I feel that it should be okay to say "focus in" or "zoom" on objects that the audience should notice. Am I wrong for thinking this?

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I try to incorporate that into the description -- for example, spending a few lines describing an object would mean the camera favors it. (Note: be careful with that. Over-describing visual details is often frustrating for the director reading your script -- if you write "the watch is made of gold, with a silver wrist-band and diamond tipped hour hand" then that would be stealing the director's job; "an expensive gold wristwatch" is enough. In that case, I try to show how the wrist-watch is important to the story, the point being that incorporating directions in the descriptions is better than "focus" or "zoom", which can be intrusive) If I must, I write "the camera favors bla bla bla..." or "we see bla bla bla..." but only rarely.

I agree with all of the above. But I say no because what do you need it for? Does the appearance of the credits matter? If it does, then use it. But mostly, (overwhelmingly)it does not.