When does "fiction" become "literature"?

Barb D · Jul 12, 2009

When does "fiction" become "literature"? How does "literary fiction" differ from non-literary fiction?

veinglory · Jul 12, 2009

"Literary" is a subset/genre of fiction. Literary fiction may be experimental in structure and addresses or illuminates the human condition. Thus, like any other genre, it is defined primarily by content and sometimes by format.

Toothpaste · Jul 12, 2009

I feel like these are two separate questions. Maybe that's why you wrote it as such. Literature is defined as "written works, esp. those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit". It is a measure of quality. Whereas literary fiction is considered a genre, and not a measure of quality. A genre that focuses more what veinglory defined it as: "may be experimental in structure and addresses or illuminates the human condition"

Now often people consider literary fiction to be more likely to be ALSO considered Literature, but I suppose that is yet another question. What defines literature, and is it defined by the similar standards to literary fiction? Is it just a superior form of literary fiction? Can literature come from genre fiction?

At any rate, my answer is I don't know where the line truly is, nor do I know if it can be defined. For me what is "lasting and superior" is a unique voice, a unique perspective and something that stays with me for a long time after I've read it (pretty much I suppose what "lasting" truly means). I will say I think literature can be found in any genre, and that I don't particularly think literary fiction has a greater "right" to being literature.

However I think the literary community would like the latter to be true, and so unfortunately it can appear that way.

If any of this makes sense.

Wise Child · Jul 12, 2009

Literary fiction is determined in backrooms that are no longer smoke filled, at certain universities, by tweed clad men and women. The one with the bushiest beard is on top of the pecking order.

veinglory · Jul 12, 2009

Well spotted, toothpaste. Many books that are not literary genre become recognised as "literature" with time (Dickens, Austen etc).

bsolah · Jul 12, 2009

I think these questions are going to attract lots of different answers and I think what is literature or literary fiction is such a blurry line that often these threads get no where with coming up with one answer.

What higher literary circles might deem literature can be very different to what ordinary readers consider plain good writing. It's a very subjective thing. And often those higher types automatically assert that literature is what they deem good writing and indeed better than other writing. But this doesn't have to be the case.

Salis · Jul 12, 2009

The only difference between fiction and literature is that the latter is very old.

Ken · Jul 12, 2009

... the two Norton anthologies of literature I have contain short stories by authors like Joyce and James Baldwin. In general I'd say these sorts of stories engage the intellect more than ones of popular fiction and also invite examination and critical analysis. // Literature also includes poetry and plays, unlike the category of fiction.

dgiharris · Jul 12, 2009

When my head starts to hurt :Headbang:

, and I feel my eyes crossing :Wha:

, then that is when I know i'm reading literary fiction

Actually, truth be told, i'm sure there has been some literary fiction that I've read and loved.

Not sure if The Red Badge of Courage, The Scarlett Letter, or Frankenstein would be considered literary fiction.

I loved those books.

Not sure if i'm stereotyping, but it seems that a lot of literary shorts that I read seem to be a bit pretentious with plots that don't really climax with any sort of conclusion, that is, the stories seem open ended...

Anyways, i don't have the pedigree to offer a credible opinion. Just talking out of my ass and wasting electrons.

Mel...

willietheshakes · Jul 12, 2009

dgiharris said:
Not sure if The Red Badge of Courage, The Scarlett Letter, or Frankenstein would be considered literary fiction.

I don't think they'd be considered literary fiction -- they were written to the tastes and market of their day. They ARE however, literature, ie, part of the accepted canon of literary study. They've outlived their time and milieu.

veinglory · Jul 12, 2009

I agree, they are literature, not literary (with the possible exception of Red Badge)

bsolah · Jul 12, 2009

Ken said:
...In general I'd say these sorts of stories engage the intellect more than ones of popular fiction and also invite examination and critical analysis

I think this is a bit of generalisation. I think plenty of popular fiction can make you think.

veinglory · Jul 12, 2009

Indeed, Ursula le Guin is not exactly a slacker, or Octavia Butler.

Ken · Jul 12, 2009

Ken said:
... In general I'd say these sorts of stories engage the intellect more than ones of popular fiction and also invite examination and critical analysis. .

... qualified my statement, above, with "in general," and also by the phrase "more than," which allows both of your statements, below, to stand side by side mine and all three to hold true without conflict or contradiction

bsolah said:
I think this is a bit of generalisation. I think plenty of popular fiction can make you think.

veinglory said:
Indeed, Ursula le Guin is not exactly a slacker, or Octavia Butler.

But even if you don't allow for this ya at least gotta credit me as being correct with this part of me post:

Ken said:
Literature also includes poetry and plays, unlike the category of fiction.

Mad Queen · Jul 12, 2009

bsolah said:
I think this is a bit of generalisation. I think plenty of popular fiction can make you think.

Even terrible fiction can make you think, sometimes more than great fiction.

Ken · Jul 12, 2009

Mad Queen said:
Even terrible fiction can make you think...

... indeed. Whenever I read terrible fiction I always do plenty of thinking ... about how I migh've spent my money more wisely at the bookstore.

NeuroFizz · Jul 12, 2009

Wise Child said:
Literary fiction is determined in backrooms that are no longer smoke filled, at certain universities, by tweed clad men and women. The one with the bushiest beard is on top of the pecking order.

F*cking academics, especially the ones with facial hair. And they all are liberal commies who sleep with their graduate students, too.

SPMiller · Jul 13, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
F*cking academics, especially the ones with facial hair. And they all are liberal commies who sleep with their graduate students, too.

/cough

So, how many did you get last year?

Priene · Jul 13, 2009

Liberal commies are OK. It's the conservative commies you have to watch out for.

Kurtz · Jul 13, 2009

Literature is writing that is good. I have absolutley no idea what 'literary fiction' is.

maestrowork · Jul 13, 2009

Here are my personal definitions:

"Literary" is a genre of fiction. It's a marketing term, really -- how the stores shelf their books.

"Literature" is determined by BOTH time and quality and, based on some consensus (or awards, or universal praise by the lit. professors, or something).

The Time Machine is not literary -- it's science fiction. But it's literature.

Old Man and the Sea is both literary and literature.

The Mystery of Pittsburgh is literary, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as literature... at least not yet.

KTC · Jul 13, 2009

maestrowork said:
The Mystery of Pittsburgh is literary, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as literature... at least not yet.

meh. it's a great book and nobody is a bigger Chabon fan than me...but I don't think this one will ever reach 'literature' merit.

Maybe that's another question. If an author has a couple books that would eventually fall into the shelf of 'literature', do the rest of his/her works fall into the same category? I think not...but what the hell do I know?

Saskatoonistan · Jul 13, 2009

Literary fiction is the only kind of fiction they talk about on CBC Radio's "Writers and Company". Genre fiction is the stuff that outsells literary fiction and that will never be talked about on taxpayer funded Canadian airwaves.

Oh ... in fairness to CBC, they do talk a great deal about kid-lit, too.

CBC even has book awards each year -literary fiction only, if you please.

Ruv Draba · Jul 13, 2009

All fiction can entertain, inform and provoke. Literature provokes with what it has to say while entertaining you with how it says it.

Literary fiction isn't the same beast. It provokes you to understand it and may not entertain at all.

Popular fiction is just fiction that people find entertaining. It may or may not also be literary.

jennontheisland · Jul 13, 2009

Saskatoonistan said:
Literary fiction is the only kind of fiction they talk about on CBC Radio's "Writers and Company". Genre fiction is the stuff that outsells literary fiction and that will never be talked about on taxpayer funded Canadian airwaves.

Oh ... in fairness to CBC, they do talk a great deal about kid-lit, too.

CBC even has book awards each year -literary fiction only, if you please.

I am determined to get on that show. With trashy romance. Eleanor Wachtel will be squirming in her seat by the time I'm done with her.

When does "fiction" become "literature"?

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