Should she do this?

PortableHal · Jul 12, 2009

One of my relatives has been writing fan fic for years. She does some fun stuff, too, even if she strays into areas that are beyond my comfort zone.

(Picard and Worf in an NC-17 way? Really?)

Most of her work runs about 20,000 words and she's developed a following on a fan fic board. I told her that e-publishers are looking at novellas and she's ready to submit. What she wants to submit is one of her fan fictions, rewritten so that characters are no longer identifiable as...say, Picard and Worf. I've read the new piece and it needs some work but I wouldn't have realized that it originated as a love story between two TV characters.

As I understand it, the original fan fiction is still on its board and has been read and commented on by several fans. Is this a submittable piece or is my cousin about to get into trouble?

AuburnAssassin · Jul 12, 2009

I have no idea about your question but I just wanted to chime in and say some of the slash fan fictions I've read over at LiveJournal have been eyebrow raising to say the least but a Picard and Worf NC-17 pairing (Picorf?) raised the bar for me in that respect. LOL

Many of the fan fiction writers are really, really talented, especially some of the ones doing erotica and I would think that many of their works with a little trademark/copyright cleansing (if that's the issue with fanfic) could stand on their own merits.

Susan Gable · Jul 13, 2009

It depends on just how well your cousin has done in the recasting of the known characters. If she's done a good job of creating her OWN new universe with all original characters, then she should be okay.

But...tell her it's a lot easier to take the skills she's learned by writing fan fic, and simply begin with a NEW story, one that's completely original.

Then there will be no doubt, no worries, no implications that she's crossed the line.

I got my start in fan fic, too.

Susan G.

DeleyanLee · Jul 13, 2009

I've read several NYC published books that started life as fan fic and were altered to become saleable, by successfully published authors and not just first-time authors, going back to the early 1980's. Some of them were easily identifiable as the fan fic inspiration and some weren't. Doing this nothing new. I think if the publiser is OK with her using a fan fic as a basis, then it's their head on the block as well.

But, yes, if she is interested in selling original stuff, she should invest some time and energy into doing original stuff.

Best of luck to her submission.

(And am I weird that I don't consider Picard/Worf to be that crazy a slash? I've heard of far more unbelieveable combinations over the years.)

K. Taylor · Jul 13, 2009

The fanfic writers I know that have published their previously-fanfic stories take them down once they are going to publish. The identifying details are changed, but the plot is still the same, so they don't take chances if their work is on a public board. Now, if membership is required to read, she might be able to get away with leaving it up for her fandom to continue enjoying.

I know from my own experience that some stories weren't as enjoyable once the TV characters had been taken out of the original story. It's who I imagine in the fic, and were moved because of that. There are countless books on e-pub that used to be Spike/Buffy stories, I am glad for those authors that have made a career since. Do I wish they still wrote fanfic, though? YES! (We lost some of our best ever writers to original publishing.)

SarahMacManus · Jul 13, 2009

The trick will be in making sure you have fully developed characters once you have removed the "known elements" of the TV characters.

Some of the finest and most imaginative fiction I've read has been fanfic.

She should "de-fic" it and send it to a mainstream beta completely unfamiliar with the piece and see if it works.

Cathy C · Jul 14, 2009

Not only the known TV characters, but the known WORLD too. So, no Federation of Planets, no Klingons---nothing that could lead a reader to think "Gee, this is Worf and Picard." That's trickier than it sounds.

I have an old X-Files tie-in novel that I submitted (before I realized that you don't "submit" tie-in novels.) It was more than fan-fic, but very much that world. To change it to be something else has been . . . a challenge. The relationship between the characters at that time make even creating new identities for the characters still somehow derivative. It's a "feel." The trick is, once that "feel" is gone, oftentimes, so is the magic of the story.

I wish your friend luck. If she can pull it off, it'll be awesome, and I definitely think it's worth the attempt!

girlyswot · Jul 14, 2009

I think the issue is whether the piece has already been 'published'. If she can remove all traces of it from the internet, she might get away with it, but she'll need to be careful. Google cache is a powerful thing. Just changing names and situations isn't enough - if the prose is recognisably the same, publishers won't (and more importantly, shouldn't) touch it.

The question of artistic integrity once it's shorn of its original context is one that can easily be answered by sending the revised version to someone that's never read it before.

But really, all this is a lot of hassle and probably not worth it. Tell her to just write a new original story and submit that.

Cathy C · Jul 14, 2009

No, it's beyond that, girlyswot. It's both a copyright and a TRADEMARK issue about a derivative work. In a world such as Star Trek, there are many elements that have additional protection beyond simple publication or even characters. Once the fan-fic elements are removed, there won't be any problem with the blog/display site issues. It'll be an entirely new story with no prior history.

jodiodi · Jul 14, 2009

I did some great fanfic and had quite a following. However, I deleted it all and destroyed all my copies of it from my computer or jump drives (and then they broke and all the info is irretrievable). They were essentially my own stories, just using the names of other characters. I was in the zone when I wrote them, too. I can't seem to recapture that passion anymore. I think I used up all my creativity.

Le sigh.

girlyswot · Jul 14, 2009

Cathy C said:
No, it's beyond that, girlyswot. It's both a copyright and a TRADEMARK issue about a derivative work. In a world such as Star Trek, there are many elements that have additional protection beyond simple publication or even characters. Once the fan-fic elements are removed, there won't be any problem with the blog/display site issues. It'll be an entirely new story with no prior history.

Hmm. I have no idea about Star Trek (I still have to consciously work out whether you mean Star Trek or Star Wars and which is which), so I'll take your word for it about the TM elements. But my point is still valid, I think. If the prose is essentially the same - if it's google-able, for instance - then I can't see a publisher wanting to touch it, whether or not the specific ST elements have been removed. It's the same as any other original story - if it's been published, even on a personal blog, it won't get published again.

Deb Kinnard · Jul 16, 2009

Some (not many) franchises encourage fanfic. StarGate is (was?) one of them. They wanted a tie-in novel a couple of years back, and limited their submission opening to fanfic writers. I only know this because a fantasy-pubbed novelist I know, who is also a rabid Jack O'Neal fan, wrote a piece that made it to the finals.

But mileage will vary between "worlds," so check your facts very carefully, for all the reasons Cat mentions above.

Should she do this?

PortableHal

Not-so-new

AuburnAssassin

Darkly Romantic Curmudgeon

Susan Gable

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist

K. Taylor

Bah Humbug

SarahMacManus

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

girlyswot

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

jodiodi

Reflections of Reality

girlyswot

Deb Kinnard