University Publishers - Princeton University Press

Good morning, Roger.

One of my writers (currently on hiatus but due to return in August) is senior editor at Northwestern University Press. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the time to come here, but I know from talking to him that your third question can be answered with a resounding "No." University presses, like commercial ones, only take on books they believe they can sell. It's no easier to get in there than it is at any successful commercial publisher.

Roger, don't bother. The fiction they publish is one of three sorts:

1. From current Princeton faculty
2. From other faculty with previous works
3. Works in the canon

All novels are "fictional"--that's like saying frozen ice.

... so these university publishers are like vanity presses for faculty members. Interesting.

I'm not sure I'd call it vanity publishing for faculty, but rather nepotism. Or, if one wants to be an optimist, a publisher supporting its own community of writers. University publishers tend to be small and have very, very specific interests. Notably, they want whatever they publish to futher the ideals of the university, whether that's promoting works from the traditionally studied canon (as Medi said) or promoting the professors that are working/researching on behalf of the university and their fields of study.

Ken said:

... so these university publishers are like vanity presses for faculty members. Interesting.

Click to expand...

Well, no, not a vanity press. It goes like this:

1. Campuses started recruiting published poets, essayists, novelists etc. to teach "creative writing" classes very deliberately in the 1960s (they hired them before, but degree programs were being created and they needed faculty).

2. In order to get tenure, faculty had to publish.

3. There are stringent restrictions regarding what counts towards tenure, and what publishers, and so university presses, who already published the non-fiction work of faculty, began to accept literary texts too.

There are degrees in terms of the quality of university presses, too, just like everything else, and they have reputations for specific kinds of works, and fields, too.

But as a rule they don't pay advances on literary works, works rarely earn royalties, and the rewards are tenure points. It's also not a guaranteed thing that a faculty member will be published, unless there's a specific statement to that effect in a hiring contract--larger presses like Princeton rarely do that though.

So not so much a vanity press as perhaps a smaller niche press.

roger kryless said:

Now I'm not sure what to make of them (the publishers, i mean).

-RK

Click to expand...

You need to look at the authors; all three are tenured faculty at schools known for mathematics; this is academic publishing, still. If you're not an academic, I really would look elsewhere.

Medievalist said:

Well, no, not a vanity press. It goes like this:

1. Campuses started recruiting published poets, essayists, novelists etc. to teach "creative writing" classes very deliberately in the 1960s (they hired them before, but degree programs were being created and they needed faculty).

2. In order to get tenure, faculty had to publish.

3. There are stringent restrictions regarding what counts towards tenure, and what publishers, and so university presses, who already published the non-fiction work of faculty, began to accept literary texts too.

There are degrees in terms of the quality of university presses, too, just like everything else, and they have reputations for specific kinds of works, and fields, too.

But as a rule they don't pay advances on literary works, works rarely earn royalties, and the rewards are tenure points. It's also not a guaranteed thing that a faculty member will be published, unless there's a specific statement to that effect in a hiring contract--larger presses like Princeton rarely do that though.

So not so much a vanity press as perhaps a smaller niche press.

Click to expand...

LOL :-D So professors found a way around that "Publish or perish," requirement, and a very crafty one to boot. Maybe the requirement for tenure is an unfair one to begin with, but still this doesn't sound like the best of practises, because students are the ones who are ultimately winding up with the short end of the stick, or whatever those things are that professors wrap on chalkboards with. With the amount of money students are paying these days to attend universities they should be getting the cream of the crop and with this "nepotism" in place that is surely not happening all the time. What a world :-(

Ken said:

With the amount of money students are paying these days to attend universities they should be getting the cream of the crop and with this "nepotism" in place that is surely not happening all the time. What a world :-(

Click to expand...

Actually, it's not that great for the faculty authors. In many cases, they'd rather publish elsewhere but can't, really because of the social pressures.

And, there's no guarantees either--you still have to submit; the mss. missing identifying information, go either to outside anonymous readers, or to an editorial board.

I'm fine with university presses, small and large. In general, they're doing what they're supposed to do--and I'm excited by the possibilities for POD for them. A scholarly monograph now easily costs 70 or 80 dollars, because it's printed in such small quantities and will sell to relatively few people.

What I object to are faculty using their own books as required readings when the book isn't "all that."

... wow, that could be even a worse scenario. If a professor pens a book and wants to pitch it to a large commercial publisher they are pressured into sticking with the press at their university. Ouch. On the other hand it funds the university and allows them to turn a profit that they can invest in the school. I don't think I've ever really read any textbooks by university faculty. I went to a city college. I do remember that in the library there was a glass display case with books written by faculty on display, which always impressed me.

Ken said:

LOL :-D So professors found a way around that "Publish or perish," requirement, and a very crafty one to boot.

Click to expand...

You seem to be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick here. This isn't some kind of nepotistical scheme--it's about universities consolidating their connection with distinguished writers.

And, no, writers can also/instead publish with trade publishers and other university presses. Joyce Carol Oates, for instance, publishes fiction with HarperCollins and poetry with Louisiana State University Press.

Universities that care about the reputation of their Creative Writing programs will recruit the very best available writers to fill those faculty slots, so the students are not suffering unless those "noteworthy" writers are horrible teachers (which can happen in any creative endeavor, sciences and mathematics included) in which case they may not be long for the program since this, too, feeds back to the reputation of the program. University presses are likely similar to things like marine laboratories and field stations in that they are part of the university, and they are, at best, self-supporting (certainly not significant money-makers for the university). More likely, they all require a university subsidy. More and more, even field stations and marine laboratories are being expected to be completely self-supporting (which is tough and something not expected of other academic units) due to the disappearance of state support of public education, which is being cut at an alarming rate. And that's the reason why student tuition is going up at a steep rate as well--the states keep cutting back the percentage of the total costs of education they provide. The universities have to find other sources of revenue or fold their ivy-covered tents. And don't immediately suggest professor salaries are the primary culprit. We had a survey published in the local paper recently giving the ten highest salaries in our university. All but one of them was either an administrator or a faculty member who was a former administrator and who retained part of his/her bloated administrator salary when he/she returned to the classroom. Oh, yeah. That one exception was the basketball coach (we don't have a football program). The average faculty salary was around 1/6 of the top salary on that list.

And the "publish or perish" nature of the tenure system is not rigged. If anything, it is tighter and more critically evaluated than ever with the tight financial situations at public universities. And if you think trying to get novels published is tough, stress-wise, try going through tenure. At that time most people have about ten years invested in the career, and in that one decision, it can all be taken away with little in the way of employment at that academic level available ever again.

Ken said:

... wow, that could be even a worse scenario. If a professor pens a book and wants to pitch it to a large commercial publisher they are pressured into sticking with the press at their university.

Click to expand...

This is a "sometimes" thing--and depends on the book, the press, and the author.

It's really not a scam--and generally, university presses don't make profit in the ordinary sense; it's part of the service that scholars engage in. The goal is not to lose money, so that important books that have a limited readership (because they're very specialized) can be published.

... just going by what I'm picking up here in this thread which is a poor substitute for the first-hand knowledge about university presses that many of you here have, to be sure. Thanks for sharing your insight, and good to know that professors are good joes and janes ... except for those with "beards, high sex drives, and controversial political leanings." ;-)

edt: "Getting important books with limited readerships," printed is absolutely a good thing!