Urban Fantasy = Urban Sex?

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Okay, that title is inflammatory, but there we go. Something I've noticed: on paper, Urban Fantasy is just supposed to be any fantasy that takes place in an urban/modern setting, and explores urban themes (Michael Moorcock is a great example of someone who uses urban themes without necessarily urban settings).

On the other hand, it seems like every time I read about or run into a new urban fantasy book, it's about sex, sexiness, or relationships that will build up to sex. Maybe it's just the trend of the moment, but is this basically the audience for urban fantasy now?

(I guess you could make the argument that, realistically speaking, this is exploring urban themes, since urbanization historically means more sexual freedom/experimentation.)

In any case, this makes me sort of nervous, writing an urban fantasy (well, sort of) where sex appeal plays a very small or nonexistent role.

Stacia Kane · Jul 11, 2009

Caitlin Kittredge's STREET MAGIC is an awesome urban fantasy with no sex at all. They're out there. You just have to look.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 11, 2009

There's no reason to worry about whether you have enough sex in your urban fantasy story. I've read plenty of UF without sex being the main theme. A lot of the stuff being labeled "urban fantasy" nowadays is really paranormal romance in disguise. I'm sure some people will see that comment and argue with me about it, because here are a lot of "definitions" for the two genres floating around. But that is pretty much how I see it. Of course, the kind of audience your story will attract depends a lot on the elements other than "sex". If readers can see the difference between your story and the "urban sex" books floating about lately, they are not going to not by your book because it has "urban fantasy" on the back cover, or because it happens to take place mostly in a city environment.

Dommo · Jul 11, 2009

I pretty much don't bother with urban fantasy. It seems like the majority of the genre are merely romance novels in disguise.

Matera the Mad · Jul 11, 2009

Happens in other genres too

SPMiller · Jul 11, 2009

Today, urban fantasy is almost indistinguishable from paranormal romance. IMO, this happened because the "paranormal romance" label suddenly became passe, but the stories didn't. So, if you want to tell them apart, try to gauge how large a role the sex plays in the story. In UF, the sex will usually be a major subplot, while in PR, it'll be the main plot. Good luck...

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Yeah, I'm thinking more and more I'd be better off just describing the story as SF/F even though it's not really.

Nakhlasmoke · Jul 11, 2009

When I call my work urban fantasy, I'm taking a more traditional meaning, I guess - mythic stories set in a recognisable urban universe.

But yeah, when people see UF as a description, they have a completely different idea - more like shape shifter romance.

So there has to be a better way to market/describe those books that are more Charles De Lint, or Clive Barker. They're not straight up fantasy in the LOTR vein, so what are they called?

Fokker Aeroplanbau · Jul 11, 2009

Anything with the word 'Fantasy' should be an instant red light to someone looking to avoid awkward sex scenes. It's like, except for 'Final Fanasty,' I can think of not one true genre/book/thing that significantly incorporates the word 'fanasty' without the companion 'sex.'

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the trend but the trend is definitely there.

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Nakhlasmoke said:
When I call my work urban fantasy, I'm taking a more traditional meaning, I guess - mythic stories set in a recognisable urban universe.

But yeah, when people see UF as a description, they have a completely different idea - more like shape shifter romance.

So there has to be a better way to market/describe those books that are more Charles De Lint, or Clive Barker. They're not straight up fantasy in the LOTR vein, so what are they called?

Yeah, this is the huge dichotomy. If I look at the basic, original definition of Urban Fantasy, I'm mostly there (maybe more of an emphasis on the fantasy than the urban, but still in the same neighborhood), but the actual functioning genre is completely different.

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Fokker Aeroplanbau said:
Anything with the word 'Fantasy' should be an instant red light to someone looking to avoid awkward sex scenes. It's like, except for 'Final Fanasty,' I can think of not one true genre/book/thing that significantly incorporates the word 'fanasty' without the companion 'sex.'

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the trend but the trend is definitely there.

Don't agree at all. There are tons of fantasy books out there that focus on world building, characters, plot, over sexiness.

I will say that the specific genres of fantasy seem to be plagued with this sort of trend, though. It seems like the plot/world-focused fantasy books are always in the generic SF/F category.

Nakhlasmoke · Jul 11, 2009

Fokker Aeroplanbau said:
Anything with the word 'Fantasy' should be an instant red light to someone looking to avoid awkward sex scenes. It's like, except for 'Final Fanasty,' I can think of not one true genre/book/thing that significantly incorporates the word 'fanasty' without the companion 'sex.'

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the trend but the trend is definitely there.

What drugs are you on?

Fokker Aeroplanbau · Jul 11, 2009

Sorry, I guess I should have qualified that any 'stuff' that incorporates the word Fantasy, along with another adjective.

Not the 'Fantasy' generic category as a whole, lol, no way.

Just off the top of my head, however, I can say with conviction that the vast majority of books that I've flipped through with regards to 'Dark fantasy,' Celtic (insert culture here) Fantasy and (of course) Romantic fantasy have some serious, if not always explicit, sexual aspects. Even Historical Fantasy (Harry Turtledove, anybody?) has it.

The word is becoming a increasing catch all for books that have invariably 'dirtied' their initial resting areas and have molted to catch a wider audience, leave some of their more eccentric novelists behind or what have you.

At least, that's my opinion.

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Fokker Aeroplanbau said:
Sorry, I guess I should have qualified that any 'stuff' that incorporates the word Fantasy, along with another adjective.

Not the 'Fantasy' generic category as a whole, lol, no way.

Just off the top of my head, however, I can say with conviction that the vast majority of books that I've flipped through with regards to 'Dark fantasy,' Celtic (insert culture here) Fantasy and (of course) Romantic fantasy have some serious, if not always explicit, sexual aspects. Even Historical Fantasy (Harry Turtledove, anybody?) has it.

The word is becoming a increasing catch all for books that have invariably 'dirtied' their initial resting areas and have molted to catch a wider audience, leave some of their more eccentric novelists behind or what have you.

At least, that's my opinion.

Hah, yeah. Exactly what I said above: SF/F seems to be a catch-all for "serious" fantasy (okay, don't pillory me here, people who love sex), while the specific genres have just been taken over as romancing derivatives.

This is unfortunate, in my opinion, because SF/F is a HUGE category, and it would be nice if the specific genres were useful in that sense.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 11, 2009

Any story with adult (or teenage, for that matter) characters is bound to have some sort of sexual aspect. Whether the characters actually have sex or not is a different story, though. Obviously "Romance" fantasy is going to have sex, and since "dark" fantasy tends to involve nasty stuff happening, it will also tend to have some nasty sexual stuff happening. On "Celtic" fantasy, I can't really say that. I've certainly read a lot of Celtic fantasy where there is sex. But I've read a lot of sci-fi with sex, too. And a lot of "Celtic" fantasy where sex plays a small role, if it plays one at all. Adult romantic sub-plots tend to have a sexual aspect one way or another. Because adult romance in real life tends to involve some sex. Good fiction is supposed to reflect life to some extent. And life is full of sex. So fiction is full of sex. You can't just arbitrarily label fantasy as the sex-dump. I think this is the most times (12) I've used the word "sex" (now, 13) in any single piece of writing. Thanks, Fokker.

Fokker Aeroplanbau · Jul 11, 2009

Haha, sorry - I just cause a lot of sex talk wherever I go.

I'm not saying it is inherantly 'bad' or 'immoral,' it's fine that authors make books that incorporate sex. Life has sex, writing has sex seems like a fundamentally sound statement. Yet like Salis said, sub genres seem to have been taken over by the more explicit writers, forcing those who either A: just plain don't incorporate it or B: don't incorporate it to a full enough degree, seem out of place.

But other then that, my opinion stops; I'm don't care much either way beyond idle remarks that it seems to be happening.

SPMiller · Jul 11, 2009

There seems to be rampant conflation of fantasy, romance, and erotica in this thread.

Stop. They don't have much to do with each other.

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

SPMiller said:
There seems to be rampant conflation of fantasy, romance, and erotica in this thread.

Stop. They don't have much to do with each other.

Well, that's what this thread is about: the fact that in many specific genres of fantasy, it has already been conflated. Look up "urban fantasy" or check out urban fantasy lists on Amazon, and 8 out of 10 titles have sexually suggestive covers, synopses, etc.

There's nothing wrong with sex--my WIP has some inferences to it "off-screen", but the way I look at it, it's a difference of focus. Imagine two people telling a story of their life: one person tells the story of their life broadly, going over their youth, their job, their family (including marriage), etc. This is your typical fantasy story.

The other person is newly in love and tries to tell their life story, but ends up just gushing about the person they're in love with. This is a fantasy story where there's a romantic focus.

Neither is bad, it's just strange to me how the latter seems to have completely taken over some genres that weren't about it at all at first.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 11, 2009

I wouldn't say that the typical fantasy is someone's life story. I've read books like that, and write a few, but they are not exactly in the majority.

SPM--I completely agree. Though I think UF tends to have a lot of sex in it, I don't conflate fantasy with with erotica, or romance with either.

Salis · Jul 11, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
I wouldn't say that the typical fantasy is someone's life story. I've read books like that, and write a few, but they are not exactly in the majority.

SPM--I completely agree. Though I think UF tends to have a lot of sex in it, I don't conflate fantasy with with erotica, or romance with either.

It was an analogy about non-romantic focus vs. romantic focus, not about fantasy in particular. Apparently I suck at analogies.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 12, 2009

Salis said:
It was an analogy about non-romantic focus vs. romantic focus, not about fantasy in particular. Apparently I suck at analogies.

Okay, I see what you were going for. Sorry. Just that the "story of character's life" thing wasn't quite distanced enough in my mind to make it clear it was an analogy. Probably my fault, not yours.

Mr Flibble · Jul 12, 2009

Fokker Aeroplanbau said:
Anything with the word 'Fantasy' should be an instant red light to someone looking to avoid awkward sex scenes. It's like, except for 'Final Fanasty,' I can think of not one true genre/book/thing that significantly incorporates the word 'fanasty' without the companion 'sex.'

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the trend but the trend is definitely there.

What books are you reading?

There are tons of all types of fantasy ( including urban) without any sex, or very little. ( or as said up thread without the focus on it)

Seriously, you couldn't think of one? Lord of the Rings for starters....

Urban fantasy doesn't have any more or less sex in it than, I dunnow, murder mystery

Paranormal romance on the other hand....

Ruv Draba · Jul 12, 2009

Romance is idealistic; fantasy is whimsical. Idealism goes with whimsy like fruit goes with ice-cream.

But other things can be idealistic too: religion (e.g. Narnia), non-romantic love (e.g. A Wrinkle in Time), adventure (The Hobbit), war (The Iliad), crime (Tanya Huff's Blood books)... Pick a topic that lends itself well to idealism and I bet there'll be a fantasy story that's done it...

But some of those stories fit better in an urban environment than others. Relationship, religion and crime stories fit easily; adventures have to be tweaked some; wars have to be tweaked further to make them fit. So surprise, surprise, we see a lot of urban fantasies built around relationships and mysteries; a few that do urban adventures; and not many that do urban wars.

Not all urban fantasy need be idealistic, but if it's not then you need another use for the whimsy. A lot of the Cyberpunk genre is urban fantasy made bitter. A lot of the Gothic genre is urban fantasy made sour.

Stacia Kane · Jul 12, 2009

IdiotsRUs said:
What books are you reading?

There are tons of all types of fantasy ( including urban) without any sex, or very little. ( or as said up thread without the focus on it)

Seriously, you couldn't think of one? Lord of the Rings for starters....

Urban fantasy doesn't have any more or less sex in it than, I dunnow, murder mystery

Paranormal romance on the other hand....

Dittoing this. I did a whole blog post about this a while back, too. Just because there are some popular UFs with heavy romantic elements certainly does NOT mean they're all just about sex.

You said in your initial post you thought urban fantasy was supposed to be any fantasy taking place in an urban setting and explores urban scenes. It is. There's room for a whole range of levels of sexuality/explicitness in there.

Kat Richardson is another one with little to no sex in her UFs, btw.

Kathleen42 · Jul 12, 2009

Liosse de Velishaf said:
A lot of the stuff being labeled "urban fantasy" nowadays is really paranormal romance in disguise. I'm sure some people will see that comment and argue with me about it, because here are a lot of "definitions" for the two genres floating around. But that is pretty much how I see it.

There does seem to be that assumption (and the cover art trends don't exactly help combat this). I think it would be wonderful if there were more authors taking the track of Charles De Lint and Melissa Marr (a bit hypocritical seeing as how my own urban fantasy is far from this).

Urban Fantasy = Urban Sex?

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