new races/species

satyesu · Jul 8, 2009

I searched and found a few threads about this, but nothing really got into what I'm puzzling over.
When creating non-human cultures, do you start with the cultural differences or biological? How do you begin from scratch. I've one race I'm really excited about writing whose mindset should be totally different. But there is question three: how on earth do you step into the shoes of a wildly different culture and make the character and society truly alien?

Cyia · Jul 8, 2009

Which is most important to your story? Do the other characters react primarily to the creature's appearance or its ideals?

Kitty Pryde · Jul 8, 2009

I think, start with whatever works better for you. If you've got in your head that you just have to have a species of cactus people, go for it and try to figure out how cactus culture would exist. On the other hand, if you've got in your head a species that Does Something Humans Consider Taboo, and you know it'll make a great story, then try to figure out what sort of biology would work for them. I tend to start with an individual, and then try to work out why, culturally and biologically, he is who he is.

If you have zero idea about anything, start with biology. The bare facts of biology will dictate what sorts of cultural norms can develop.

How do you step into their shoes? Wander around pretending you are them, same as any other (human) viewpoint character. What does it feel like to be my characters? No idea. So I imagine myself as them.

satyesu · Jul 8, 2009

Make-believe. Fun stuff.

I'm actually having fun building a world as I plan and my story has very soft edges where other r races could come in, so where could I get inspiration from biology?

Nivarion · Jul 8, 2009

I start with the biological, because it leads to your cultural differences.

If they don't have hands or waists, they can't bow or shake eh?

Kitty Pryde · Jul 8, 2009

satyesu said:
Make-believe. Fun stuff. I'm actually having fun building a world as I plan and my story has very soft edges where other r races could come in, so where could I get inspiration from biology?

Wikipedia. Kids books about WEIRD animals. There are a lot of weird animals, you just have to find them out

Websites of zoos and natural history museums and aquariums. I'll give you some examples of critters I think are neat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Isopod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_tube_worm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole_rat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galápagos_tortoise

Thomas_Anderson · Jul 8, 2009

I start with bilogical and work my way to cultural.

dclary · Jul 8, 2009

satyesu said:
I searched and found a few threads about this, but nothing really got into what I'm puzzling over.
When creating non-human cultures, do you start with the cultural differences or biological? How do you begin from scratch. I've one race I'm really excited about writing whose mindset should be totally different. But there is question three: how on earth do you step into the shoes of a wildly different culture and make the character and society truly alien?

Maybe don't assume the aliens wear shoes?

AceTachyon · Jul 9, 2009

dclary said:
Maybe don't assume the aliens wear shoes?

But maybe they do only they don't call it shoes but g'kk f'lt!z or something like that and they don't look like shoes as we think of shoes but more like alien feet.

(This is a derail, isn't it...)

Wark · Jul 9, 2009

dclary said:
Maybe don't assume the aliens wear shoes?

But carry banjos?

The most creative aliens I can remember are those by Vernor Vinge in Deepness in the Sky. The dog pack people rocked. The scodalites, if I have that right, were plants that were only sentient if they were in the high beyond, or whatever it was called. Great read. I recommend.

the ned beatty reference was removed from this post

AceTachyon · Jul 9, 2009

Wark said:
But carry banjos?
the ned beatty reference was removed from this post

He's a starship captain and Ned Beatty fan who carries a banjo. She's an alien who doesn't wear shoes. They fight crime!

But back to the original question. How?

Imagine. Pretend. Play "What if...?"

The standard stuff.

dclary · Jul 9, 2009

And his best friend.... is a talking pie!

Kitty Pryde · Jul 9, 2009

The OP asked me via PM what was so weird about Galapagos Tortoises. I meant they were weird in the sense of being unusual enough to spark one into fictional species creation/plotting. Here's why--->

From wikipedia:

The male sniffs the air when seeking a female, bellows loudly, and bobs his head. The male then rams the female with the front of his shell and bites her exposed legs until she withdraws them, immobilizing her. Copulation can last several hours with roaring vocalisations from the males. Their concave shell base allows males to mount the females from behind...

and we'll fade to black there for our more sensitive readers.

Galapagos Tortoises live 100-150 years. They reach sexual maturity at 25, and reach their full size at 40. They weigh over 600 pounds and can only walk 0.2 miles per hour.

They're so giant because they evolved on an island without predators. With the influx of humankind recently, the introduction of pigs and dogs and such have made life hard on them. Without human breeding programs and protections, they'd be extinct today. That right there is enough write a book about.

Read the article about "Lonesome George", the sole surviving member of his species: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonesome_George and tell me that's not a little sad.

scottishpunk · Jul 9, 2009

satyesu said:
Make-believe. Fun stuff. I'm actually having fun building a world as I plan and my story has very soft edges where other r races could come in, so where could I get inspiration from biology?

The computer game Spore is supposed to be outstanding. Creating creatures and their cultures from the ground up. I recommend checking it out.

Pthom · Jul 9, 2009

Wark said:
But carry banjos?

The most creative aliens I can remember are those by Vernor Vinge in Deepness in the Sky. The dog pack people rocked. The scodalites, if I have that right, were plants that were only sentient if they were in the high beyond, or whatever it was called. Great read. I recommend.

I second this recommendation. However, the aliens in Deepness in the Sky were a sort of sentient spider thing. The dog pack is in the novel A Fire Upon the Deep. It, too, is a highly recommended read. (I don't recall sentient plants in either of these books.)

AceTachyon said:
He's a starship captain and Ned Beatty fan who carries a banjo. She's an alien who doesn't wear shoes. They fight crime!

If she doesn't wear shoes, where does she keep the diamonds?

dclary said:
And his best friend.... is a talking pie!

Now that is truly frightening.

AceTachyon · Jul 10, 2009

Pthom said:
If she doesn't wear shoes, where does she keep the diamonds?

You'll have to ask her yourself. :e2brows:

I shan't derail this thread any more. You may return to your xenofootwear goodness.

tarcanus · Jul 10, 2009

My tactic for putting together the cultures for the new races in my WIP are to start from the ground up. I figured out where they came from and where they lived then extrapolated the building materials they would have nearby. Then from there I can look to see if anything in their environment would cause them to act or dress or eat in certain ways. Once I get all of the environmental stimulus out of the way, I can work on what's left of the cultural stimulus - what they already didn't like or if they have belief systems that make them act in certain ways.

Juliette Wade · Jul 10, 2009

This is my favorite thing to do (designing aliens from the ground up). It doesn't really matter if you start with biology or culture so long as you make sure the two interconnect properly. For my Analog story Cold Words (on stands July 28) I started with a point of language detail. From there I chose a species model, which gave me the physiology necessary to design the phonology of their language and also the surrounding ecology. The ecology I made sure connected to their cultural values of cold=high status and warm=low status, which also gave me a chance to establish their history (an invasion of the Lowlands by the tundra people) and helped me understand what my protagonist was trying to do (raise his Lowland race in the world). Once I had those basics I could push further into the areas of manners, expressions, world metaphors, architecture, artifacts, and of course perception of human visitors and their ways.

So to sum up, you can find your way in at almost any point provided that you have a sense of what areas you need to explore; they'll all interconnect in some way. I have lots of discussion of these topics on my blog in case you're interested.

mlazzer · Jul 11, 2009

I always get a bit wobbly in the knees about yet another race. My mate play World of Warcraft and they've got all the classic fantasy races and than all of a sudden there's some really muscled smurfs added to the game as a new race, I think. And personally I think it's the weakest of all (but then what do I know about World of Warcraft?). Apologies for going astray in this thread...

Anyway, how to start. I guess what's in the best interest of your tale. Do they need to be different than humans biologically? Why? And how much? Culture is different even between humans and humans, so it's obvious that it would alter. But alter from which humans and which culture? The culture in Iran is quite different compared to American culture, it's like the exact opposite even! And even closer related culture. Say Germany and France; so different! You have to find out whether all this work is worth the time, in my opinion. Does is truly make the story better if you build this entire race, religion, culture, education, etc. etc. ?

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 11, 2009

Pthom said:
I second this recommendation. However, the aliens in Deepness in the Sky were a sort of sentient spider thing. The dog pack is in the novel A Fire Upon the Deep. It, too, is a highly recommended read. (I don't recall sentient plants in either of these books.)

Actually, there are sentient plants in A Fire Upon the Deep. "Skroderiders" being one of their forms.

new races/species

satyesu

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

satyesu

Nivarion

Brony level >9000

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

Thomas_Anderson

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

AceTachyon

Odd person

Wark

Mark Brockman

AceTachyon

Odd person

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

scottishpunk

Pthom

Word butcher

AceTachyon

Odd person

tarcanus

Lord of the Tarcans

Juliette Wade

Interprets for aliens

mlazzer

New kid, be gentle

Liosse de Velishaf