Creating a world...should I?

augustday · Jul 7, 2009

I've got my characters, the storyline, a few scenes written and now...

I'm wondering if my cop/buddy story should have a weird futuristic world to play out in? It's kind of tempting.

The story is more about the bond between the men than it is crime story, but I need them to be cops in order to make my MC's affliction fit with my story. I need the partners to investigate homicide cases.

I don't mean to sound flippant --oh, I should just make it sci-fi-- that might be fun. I know that it takes a certain gift to be a sci-fi writer. I'm just not ready to rule out that I'm not a sci-fi writer, as this is my first original novel. And although I'm not heavily into the genre, I'm drawn to it.

Is attempting to create a new world after the fact a big mistake?

Can I make subtle hints at it being futuristic, without making a big show of made up science and technology and the obligatory drunk aliens in a bar scene?

How do folks go about creating the worlds their characters live in?

Does a person sit down and map out the all the details, characteristics of the world and then plop their characters right smack dab in the middle of it? Regardless if it's sci-fi or not?

My characters showed up and they didn't tell me where they live... sigh

I need some help, please.

Thank you kindly,

~augustday

Birol · Jul 7, 2009

augustday said:
I've got my characters, the storyline, a few scenes written and now...

I'm wondering if my cop/buddy story should have a weird futuristic world to play out in? It's kind of tempting.

Why should it? What's tempting about it?

The story is more about the bond between the men than it is crime story, but I need them to be cops in order to make my MC's affliction fit with my story. I need the partners to investigate homicide cases.

You need? Or the story needs?

I don't mean to sound flippant --oh, I should just make it sci-fi-- that might be fun. I know that it takes a certain gift to be a sci-fi writer. I'm just not ready to rule out that I'm not a sci-fi writer, as this is my first original novel. And although I'm not heavily into the genre, I'm drawn to it.

Why?

Is attempting to create a new world after the fact a big mistake?

Don't know. Is it?

Can I make subtle hints at it being futuristic, without making a big show of made up science and technology and the obligatory drunk aliens in a bar scene?

1. Sure you can. Why couldn't you?
2. You have a different view of what science fiction than what is necessarily reality.
3. Who says drunk aliens are obligatory? Who said you even need aliens in science fiction?

How do folks go about creating the worlds their characters live in?

They just do it.

Does a person sit down and map out the all the details, characteristics of the world and then plop their characters right smack dab in the middle of it? Regardless if it's sci-fi or not?

There's as many different methods of world-building as there are writers. That said, no method is unique.

My characters showed up and they didn't tell me where they live... sigh

1. Have you asked them?
2. Is it important to the story to know?

Shweta · Jul 7, 2009

re: aliens in bars, SF isn't star wars.
Arguably, star wars isn't SF

defcon6000 · Jul 7, 2009

Shweta said:
re: aliens in bars, SF isn't star wars.
Arguably, star wars isn't SF

I've heard that Star Wars is science fantasy, as in it's just set in a futuristic fantasy world (but not one we'll know of in the future).

Having robots/androids/AI would be a better giveaway that it's the future and high tech space travel or flying cars.

Really, you don't have to create much, just make an extension of our current technology and predict how it will be used/not used in the future. Or if there was a war, describe the aftermath of it and how it has effected everyone on Earth (I'm assuming the novel is set on Earth :tongue

).

blacbird · Jul 7, 2009

I tried this creating a world thing. Six full workdays, to start with, after which I was so dam tired I had to take a break. Then things just weren't right. Take dinosaurs, for example. I remade them so often I can't keep count, and I'm omniscient. Finally, I just had to blast 'em, you know, and pretty much start all over. It's taken millions of years, and I'm still not happy. Tried that flood thing, but that turned out kind of lame. I don't know, might have to give a big asteroid another crack at it.

caw

Cyia · Jul 7, 2009

Star Wars is a western set in space.

augustday · Jul 7, 2009

Birol said:
Why should it? What's tempting about it?
It's tempting because

1. I don't want to get bogged down with researching police procedures and in my own world I can make up my own.

2. I've had a few scenes bobbing around in my head, one involving one of the partners smoking a cigarette subsitute created after tobacco has been outlawed. A bit of running comedy. And also a scene --a flash of something in my head that could really work to add a twist to why a particular murder occurred, and that reason/truth is based in fantasy, and could only work if I take the whole story that route.

You need? Or the story needs?
I'm not sure of the answer to this. And maybe not being able to answer it, is why I'm uncertain to begin with.

Why?
I'm drawn to the freedom it represents. There was a time when I would get a all excited about stories being told from another realm of reality and the codes and speculations of how that world worked was something I loved to debate with friends and family. The last decade I've had some real life stuff that's made me unplug from my regular interest and now I'm just now getting to know myself again. I'm not sure I have the same passion for it.

Don't know. Is it?
It just might be, and maybe it's enough of challenge for me to just finish this first novel. I like my characters and my story. I think I'm scared I'm going to mess it up. I can't stop questioning my approach, my process of writing it. I think I have the ability to pull this off but I have my doubts. Maybe this sci-fic question is me sabotaging myself, huh?

1. Sure you can. Why couldn't you?
2. You have a different view of what science fiction than what is necessarily reality.
3. Who says drunk aliens are obligatory? Who said you even need aliens in science fiction?

My first instincts are to slip in a few things. Make the implication strong that's it's not a present day story. I didn't mean to sound so ignorant about sci-fi. The obligatory alien was a bad joke. trying to be cute. This posting thing makes you say dumb stuff sometimes. I really get it's a wide spectrum. And I guess just by saying that 'outloud' helps me reconcile something in my head about why I'm letting this be a distraction.

They just do it.
I think I got a bit tripped up tonight. Looking at a course offered about
"Mapping out a World". And it freaked me out a bit I guess. I started to think -- well maybe I should take this eight week class and plot it out to how my characters wash their clothes, and buy food, etc. And all of sudden it just seemed such a gigantic challenge. Nerves. I'm looking to draft out my novel in the next few weeks and thought I had my head and heart in the right place and then wham! It shook me.

There's as many different methods of world-building as there are writers. That said, no method is unique.

Right.

1. Have you asked them?
2. Is it important to the story to know?

No, I could ask. Or I could just go ahead and move forward as I had planned--get to writing this sucker. I did get the cigarette subsitute running gag thing from my MC. And I guess... if it's important enough to them they'll tell, right? In all the little scenes I've put down, I've been comfortable writing them. I feel like there's something perculiar about when the story is happening and maybe as I get more of it down I'll know more about how much of the future I need to write into it.

Okay, some rapping of the knuckles seems to have me seeing I was veering off into a ditch.

I'm just coming back to writing, decades lost, and I have some dumb questions and insecurities about my abilities. I would imagine you'll
see more of the same from me.

Thanks much,

~augustday

( darn. I can't even get this reply/quote stuff to work! I hope people can make sense of this)

augustday · Jul 8, 2009

defcon6000 said:
I've heard that Star Wars is science fantasy, as in it's just set in a futuristic fantasy world (but not one we'll know of in the future).

Having robots/androids/AI would be a better giveaway that it's the future and high tech space travel or flying cars.

Really, you don't have to create much, just make an extension of our current technology and predict how it will be used/not used in the future. Or if there was a war, describe the aftermath of it and how it has effected everyone on Earth (I'm assuming the novel is set on Earth ).

Yep ! I do know that it's on Earth. I like what you're saying about writing extension to current technology. I'd still have to know how stuff works to change it. And that might mean some research. I just need to learn how to introduce new world stuff without getting too technical. Maybe by focusing more on how people's lives are impacted.

Shweta · Jul 8, 2009

Making stuff up is not easier than researching real world counterparts*.

It's harder. Way harder.

*Okay, doing it badly is easier, but what's the point of that?

augustday · Jul 8, 2009

blacbird said:
I tried this creating a world thing. Six full workdays, to start with, after which I was so dam tired I had to take a break. Then things just weren't right. Take dinosaurs, for example. I remade them so often I can't keep count, and I'm omniscient. Finally, I just had to blast 'em, you know, and pretty much start all over. It's taken millions of years, and I'm still not happy. Tried that flood thing, but that turned out kind of lame. I don't know, might have to give a big asteroid another crack at it.

caw

You are scaring me. That's way too much responsibility. I've got too much on my plate as it is. Seriously, I was thinking about taking a workshop on creating a world for you novel. I'm afraid of getting bogged down with all that detail and having it end up hijacking my story. I could just see myself getting sucked into complete and utter distraction. I just might end up creating some dinosaurs myself!

augustday · Jul 8, 2009

Shweta said:
Making stuff up is not easier than researching real world counterparts*.

It's harder. Way harder.

Easier in the sense of how I feel about what I'm working on. I've written some fantasy and I think I've got some strengths in 'making up stuff'.
What I don't

*Okay, doing it badly is easier, but what's the point of that?

Easier in the sense of how I feel about what I'm creating. I've written a wee bit of fantasy and I think I've got some potential in 'making up stuff'. At the same time I don't want the futuristic theme to rule the story and
I want to write a crime story with cops as my MCs but I don't want to fill it with researched forensic talk and police procedures. I want the crime and but not all the regular crime fiction jargon, which yes, I know I could easily pull of some website.

Shweta · Jul 8, 2009

augustday said:
Easier in the sense of how I feel about what I'm creating. I've written a wee bit of fantasy and I think I've got some potential in 'making up stuff'. At the same time I don't want the futuristic theme to rule the story and
I want to write a crime story with cops as my MCs but I don't want to fill it with researched forensic talk and police procedures. I want the crime and but not all the regular crime fiction jargon, which yes, I know I could easily pull of some website.

If you can manage this without coming across as ignorant rather than imaginative, more power to you.

Speaking as a fantasy writer, I tend to find badly-researched fantasy just as painful as badly-researched SF.

Fox The Cave · Jul 8, 2009

augustday said:
You are scaring me. That's way too much responsibility. I've got too much on my plate as it is. Seriously, I was thinking about taking a workshop on creating a world for you novel. I'm afraid of getting bogged down with all that detail and having it end up hijacking my story. I could just see myself getting sucked into complete and utter distraction. I just might end up creating some dinosaurs myself!

Lol i'm thinking you didn't really "get" his post.

K_Woods · Jul 8, 2009

Creating a world is tricky and treacherous. On the one hand, you have lazy, hastily slapped-together settings made from the worldbuilding equivalent of corrugated cardboard and duct tape. On the other, you have Worldbuilder's Disease, where everything slows to a crawl or worse because darnit, you need to name all the kittens from the third litter of the cat that belongs to the scullery maid that works in the house that belongs to one of the representatives of the senate...you get the idea. The path between the two isn't always clear.

But if you do decide to create a world, the single most important thing I can think of is that everything has consequences. Everything. The world must be internally consistent. Readers will notice the parts that were duct-taped together if you go that route.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 8, 2009

You might want to read The Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun by Isaac Asimov.

Wark · Jul 8, 2009

I did time travel and didn't make up anything besides "We don't know how the gates work."

I know the best way to flee the Augusta, GA police station and get to the interstate. I know more about assault rifles and pistols than I ever have, and frankly wouldn't mind one of those Russian Colt 45 clones with the active counterweight so it doesn't kick. And, the most research, if you were starving outside Halifax in August, what could you eat. That required a doc on Google Books from 1905. Also, here's a fun link about gun mistakes : http://dixonverse.net/articles/guns.html

You can probably find articles on police procedure for scriptwriting, etc. Or, make them above the law, Judge Dredd style.

Namatu · Jul 8, 2009

augustday said:
Yep ! I do know that it's on Earth. I like what you're saying about writing extension to current technology. I'd still have to know how stuff works to change it. And that might mean some research. I just need to learn how to introduce new world stuff without getting too technical. Maybe by focusing more on how people's lives are impacted.

Live in this world for awhile. Let it percolate in your head. Envision what it would be like to go about your day in the environment you want to create. Get to know how the day-to-day of it works. What are some of the quirks?

Now put your characters into it. How do they fit? How do they go about their days in this world? What are their challenges?

World-building can be a great opportunity for writing exercises that help you figure out how everything will fit together. It can also help you figure out how much you really need to describe once you dive into the novel. Having the world clear in your head makes it a lot easier to put on the page. Regardless of the setting, you will never get away from research.

Do some exercises. Try your characters out in this world. If they don't fit, take them out!

ChaosTitan · Jul 8, 2009

augustday said:
Easier in the sense of how I feel about what I'm creating. I've written a wee bit of fantasy and I think I've got some potential in 'making up stuff'. At the same time I don't want the futuristic theme to rule the story and
I want to write a crime story with cops as my MCs but I don't want to fill it with researched forensic talk and police procedures. I want the crime and but not all the regular crime fiction jargon, which yes, I know I could easily pull of some website.

Research is necessary for a writer, whether you're writing fantasy, SF, or modern crime thrillers.

Unless you plan on setting this futuristic piece in an alternate future, possibly a completely alien planet, then it's likely the investigative procedures your characters use have some historic grounding in modern methods. The future doesn't just pop up out of nowhere.

I think a police procedural in a futuristic SF setting is a great idea. I sounds like something I'd enjoy, and it sounds like something you'd have fun writing. If research sounds daunting right now, then write your first draft. Get the story down on paper first, then set it aside and do your research afterward. Fix accordingly.

Kitty Pryde · Jul 8, 2009

If your story needs to be set in the future, set it in the future. If it can be set in present day, and you'd just fancy some shiny (or gritty) hi-tech whizbangs around for atmosphere, set it in the present day anyway. Science-fictioning up a story doesn't really work. On the other hand, if advanced tech/neat aliens/postapocalyptic-fun-times are an integral part of your story, go for it!

dirtsider · Jul 8, 2009

This reminds me of a conversation my writing group had at our last meeting. One of the writers there got nervous because her other writing group wanted more detail on the police scenes. You don't have to take every course necessary to become an actual cop in order to write these kinds of scenes. But you do need to know the basics in order to make it sound real. If you are going to make at least one of your MC's a cop, you really do need to know what you're talking about or people won't buy it.

Look up the Howdunit series. They're books on different aspects of the police/forensic world, made specifically for writers, such Police Procedures, Poisons, MO's, Private Investigators (both amatuer and professional), etc. There are plenty of other books on Forensics for Writers. If you have them on hand, it'll make your life easier and you don't have to take a training course on how to be a cop.

willietheshakes · Jul 8, 2009

Hmm... to my mind, you're creating a world whenever you put pen to paper -- scifi, fantasy, litfic, whatever genre you're working in you're making a world.

Maybe that's just me...

Oh, and defcon:

defcon6000 said:
I've heard that Star Wars is science fantasy, as in it's just set in a futuristic fantasy world...

What part of "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" leads you to "futuristic"?

A.R. Starr · Jul 8, 2009

Take a look at Nora Robert's "In Death" series. They're about a homicide detective in a furturistic world. Ms Robert's handles the futuristic aspects very subtly and well. So well that even an anti furturistic sci-fi person like me loves them.

mscelina · Jul 8, 2009

Even imagination has to be credible. World building is not just 'making stuff up.' World building carries responsiblities with it. If you're arbitrarily setting this in a futuristic world because you think it's cool instead of to support the story, then you're not doing yourself any favors.

caitysdad · Jul 8, 2009

I would only do it if the new world is vital to your story like Blade Runner.

augustday · Jul 8, 2009

Fox The Cave said:
Lol i'm thinking you didn't really "get" his post.

I wasn't sure. Thanks for your confirmation.

Creating a world...should I?

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