Looking for a horror writer to complete a project

To be honest, this is probably not the forum to be asking this question in (Haggis and DL Hegel are the mods around these parts though). You might be better off asking in the Freelance thread.

With that said, I'm a little put off by the number of typos I noticed in the first couple of paragraphs of your blog. While a few here and there, now and then, are forgivable, if you're a published horror author I'd expect a bit better. In addition, your blog and Ty's are remarkably similar, almost appearing as if they were put together by the same web designer.

Nowhere do you mention payment, royalties, or rights. What's in it for the author of the third novella? What's the theme? How's the writer supposed to know what the other two did so the three can be reasonably well-connected?

You might be better off holding a contest of some sort and picking the best novella out of a pile of submissions in my opinion.

ghostie, I received your PM and suffice it to say that I now understand, perhaps, why the other writer you mentioned dropped the project so abruptly. I noticed that you made no attempt to address my questions above, but did see fit to address my concerns regarding the writing on your blog.

Quite frankly, if you had addressed my questions above you might have gotten someone willing to participate in your project (or at least a suggestion of who you might have tried to contact). You might still, who knows? But joining a project as specified above is a very dicey proposition. Many collaborations of professional authors end in miserable failure and the authors swearing never to do it again so it pays to enter into these kinds of deals with eyes wide open.

If you're incapable of addressing a few trivial questions and get raised hackles because of a very minor criticism of your spelling and grammar on your blog, how am I to assume you're going to react to my own or anyone else's contributions to your anthology?

So, yeah, "excuse me" if I question the Great Master Horror Writer and his anthology project.

What's a scam smell like? It smells like this and if you'd been a bit less new you'd have known we have professional scam-sniffers on this forum.

It's not our responsibility to prove you're a pro or not a scammer. It's your responsibility to prove to us you are and are not.

Aha! I knew it! You're a Publish America "author". You've been scammed, bub.

Adam, welcome to the boards.

FOTSGreg is right when he suggests that Publish America has a bad rep. Boy, does it. Take a few minutes on the internet or on these boards and you'll see that the P.A. "credit" actually does you a disservice.

There's an entire sub-forum about Publish America in our Bewares and Background Checks section. Maybe you should go take a look. Plenty of information about them in there.

My condolenses.

ghosted, FOTSGreg made some very valid points and I think you overreacted to the questions posed.

You're asking for published writers to complete a novella. That's fine. But there are only two types of anthologies out there: a) those driven by the publisher---who hires authors to fill a slot based on their already published works, and b) those driven by one or more authors. As far as I can determine, you've created a project that is like b). I've been involved in both kinds of anthos and it's the issues you HAVEN'T discussed here that have me concerned, such as:

1. Submission and Sale. You've stated you're going to FIRST write the novellas and THEN try to sell them to a publisher. Bad plan for an antho, unless you're going through a house where one of the authors is already published. I worry that the publishers you've contacted all want to see the written novellas--especially when they're themed. It might be that the editor will have a different vision for the theme you've contemplated, and that will spell problems for the authors in rewriting what they've already done. Published authors have other commitments and plan their schedule to fit in small projects because they DON'T have many problems. With the novellas already written, that will be a hard sell unless the editor's really on-board with your idea. Most anthos that are author driven are sold by query and proposal with a simple statement that: "Here are the authors already signed on, and here's their level of sales." I just signed on for an antho absolutely brimming with significant bestsellers (NYT and USAT all) in UF, F, and Horror, and it struggled to find a home. It'll be published, but by a Canadian SF press, rather than a NY one.

2. Contracts and Royalties.The legal complications of being the "editor" of an anthology will alarm you once you sit down to think about it. Unless the publisher agrees to provide separate contracts to each person, it'll be the point person under contract. The point person, in turn, will have to make sure that each author meets their obligations (instead of the publisher doing it) and the point person will receive all the money and have to distribute it. That money will have to be doled out through the normal course of business---a trust fund set up to hold an advance and future royalties, checks mailed to the authors, 1099s to the authors at tax time and the requisite tax filings for the business. It's far, FAR better for the publisher to send separate contracts and let them deal with the hassle, but it's a struggle to get them to do it, because it's easier to work with one person and let them deal with the pain. Hopefully, gillhoughly will wander by and notice this thread. S/he's been involved in numerous anthos, both as contributor and as editor. I'm sure s/he'll have solid input about the things you need to consider.

3. Credit. It can be a p*ssing match with pubbed authors when it comes to the front cover. Generally, it's the biggest seller who gets the main credit on the cover and that can change in an instant if someone hits a list. Yes, it's only 3 novellas, which is easier, but the publisher is going to want to push the person who will SELL the antho to the public. Are you okay if that's not you? If your name, in fact, doesn't appear on the cover at all?

4. Editing. Are you the person who will actually edit the works of the other writers? If they're published, every work produced must meet a minimum standard of quality. Do you have those skills, or will you be relying on a publisher's editor to make corrections to the theme and to the stories? Keep in mind that the underlying concept of your idea might change in a heartbeat if you remove yourself from the editorial mix. Just something to keep in mind.

These aren't questions to answer to only "those interested." They're required to be answered to MAKE someone interested. Any publishing contract is a serious consideration. Please don't make light of the issues when discussing them with people who would be looking to add this anothology to their publishing credits.

ghosted, Nobody attacked you. I raised questions. That's a far cry from an attack. You PMed me with a nastygram taking offense when I stated I found faults in your usage and spelling and that concerned me. Collaborations are notorious for creating rifts between writers.

I did not accuse you of trying to rip people off. I grew suspicious due to your association with PA. I said I smelled a scam. I did not say you were the scammer. If you took it that way I apologize.

I did not say I wasn't interested. I'm not, now especially, but I might have been once. I did bother to read the thread and check your blog out so I went to that much trouble at least. Now, however, you've virtually guaranteed that I'll warn everyone I know away from you and your project.

You state that the questions posed have no answers. That's not good enough when you're advertising for a writer to help you out on a project that you implied already had a publisher's interest. Are you worried that we'd try to steal your idea? Hah! Ideas are a dime a dozen. I give 'em away for free. Here's 3,

1) Hell takes a day off once each year. On that day the demons all go to a bar. Hilarity & hijinks ensue.
2) A lonely recluse discovers that there are spirits inhabiting the trees surrounding his place and must figure out how to dispell them using arcane Druidic magic.
3) A serial killer is loose in a small town in South Carolina. He's already killed 5, possibly 6. As the police close in he escapes into the woods, taking a young woman hostage. Can she survive long enough for the police to find them and rescue her?

Take 'em. They're free. That last one's straight out of today's headlines.

There is a 100% chance that I'd do your idea so differently from the way you would that both works would be original and stand alone on their own. If you want a collaboration to work you have to be able to answer important questions and you have to be completely open with your partners. You haven't been either. I asked some questions and made some suggestions, did a little more checking up on you and you went on the offensive. I sincerely apologize for offending you, but you have to be able to answer another writer's questions before they're going to agree to work with you on a collaborative project. I ask tough, hard questions. I'm not a nice person when it comes to business relationships. I'm a hardass when it comes to critical reviews of someone else's work (although I always try to be constructive with my criticisms). I don;t really apologize for any of those qualities because being soft on people who need to learn something doesn;t do them or you any good and it could actually do significant harm.

The people on AW aren't angry. They're not angry with you and they haven't attacked you.l You need to grow a thicker skin because what we are, generally, is an honest bunch. We'll tell you what we think of your writing. Ideas are, as I said, a dime a dozen. They mean nothing, nada, zip, zero. What matters to us is that you have the opportunity to face real criticism and to grow as a writer (and possibly a human being as well).

Cathy C, Thank you. You're ever so much more eloquent than I am (but I am, admittedly, a curmudgeonly old bastard).

guess he fixed the typos on his blog, didnt see any.. this is the only horror forum section I can see here on AW, so his thread in this section seems appropriate.. maybe not, it's still here so, I wonder.

FOTS: it seems pretty obvious from the guy's blog he's not a scammer and a fairly good writer, for the most part.The questions you raise are certainly valid, BUT it cannot be denied you delivered them with an air of pomposity. I can see it, he saw it, and took offense. People new to forums get this shit all the time from the "regulars". Then their buddys generally back them up without any deep thinking on the matter. Pity.

I hate to take up for the guy, but I think you had already made your mind up to discount the guy and took a cursory look at his blog at best, then posted what you did.

alcie, That might be your opinion, but it's not what happened. I also apologized for any perceived offense.

My examination was definitely not perfunctory. I was interested in what kind of opportunity might be presented here. I don't look at potential opportunities looking to discredit them.

My redflag warnings went up as soon as I realized this was a PA-published author and that was AFTER the nastygram I received via PM.

Think what you will. I'm a bastard. I admit that. I'm even a pompous bastard from time to time. But when I examined the evidence I had at the time I saw red flags all over the freaking place. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but when I see red flags, lots of secrecy, hints of this or that, and a PA author who's already shown that he is belligerent and defensive, I get my hackles up.

I've said enough on this issue. I don;t need to defend myself in this thread any longer nor do I need to prolong this argument. I will be ignoring it from now on.

Ghosted, I agree with the points that Greg and CathyC brought up. And Greg never accused you of being a scammer. He merely pointed out you had been scammed by PA. PA is pretty evil and many people have fallen for their scam.

And Alcoholicnightterror, I don't think anyone is giving newbies 'shit' on this forum. What we do give is our honesty. We are all here with the same intent, for the most part - to be the best writers we can be. Honesty does not always come with sugar cookies and milk. You need to have a tough skin in this business and be able to take criticism without taking it personally.

The questions you raise are certainly valid, BUT it cannot be denied you delivered them with an air of pomposity. I can see it, he saw it, and took offense. People new to forums get this shit all the time from the "regulars". Then their buddys generally back them up without any deep thinking on the matter. Pity.

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Okay guys, let's take a breather and not resort to personal attacks.

Firstly, the questions raised were valid. Questions anyone interested in taking part would ask. Greg seemed to be interested in the opportunity. I would have asked the same questions, would have asked them in almost exactly the same way. I'm brash and harsh and not a damn bit worried about what someone thinks of what I say. But, no one attacks personally in this forum, I've never seen it. We're all a pretty tight nit group of people, and we are NOT adverse to having new people join us. It makes us all happy to see new people visit the horror forum--and there is more than one forum for markets. Paying markets, non-paying markets, beta readers and writing partners. This post would be appropriate for any of those forums. Just because this is the horror forum, doesn't mean asking for additional writers should go here.

This forum is for discussion on horror--our prompts, and yes, horror markets. But by markets, we don't mean people looking for horror writers to help complete a project and I'm sorry, no one in their right mind would agree to have their novella published by PA. No one. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Here we discuss magazine and book publishers of our genre, but we don't go looking for writing partners here. I asked the people who visit my thread, Hounding After Hours, to beta read a non-horror novel for me, yes I did. But this is at a time when my group of friends were present only and I asked in my own thread, which is stickied at the top of the forum. All we ask is that you get to know us and let us get to know you before you ask favors. And that's what this is. You're in a bind. I understand that, but we don't know you or your partner and we'd just like to know a bit more before we answer. If PA is out of the picture, I myself would be interested. I don't think I'm out of line in saying that we're all just skeptical when it comes to PA; and you have no idea how many people who come in here, to AW, and are saved by the skin of their teeth from being swindled by these people. You're asking us for our work, for Christ's sake. We want to do a bit of homework, and if that's out of line, I'll eat my damned hat.

ETA: Notice that Cathy C has "Absolute Sage" in her title. She has this title for a reason. She knows what she is talking about, and Absolute Sage means listen up. She didn't add it herself, I asure you. She knows this business and no one should ever discount what she says. Just so everyone knows.

People new to forums get this shit all the time from the "regulars". Then their buddys generally back them up without any deep thinking on the matter. Pity.

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I'm sorry you feel this way, alcoholicnightterror. Truly. I try very hard NOT to "take sides". Rather, I try to be welcoming, but realistic. In this case, realistic about the industry means that questions must be asked. I love it when people come up with brilliant ideas and always wish them well. But there are hard facts about this business and there are rules to play by---because it IS a business. The OP wasn't asking for just anyone. S/he was asking for writers of a level that had publishing credits to be checked out and verified by the OP. That's fine . . . encouraged, actually. But the it goes both ways. A published author is entitled and also encouraged to openly ask how the deal works; from what's expected of the author, to how they will be compensated.

I write for money, so that's of utmost importance to me when I'm considering a project. Sure, I also write some stuff for "love" (just did a superhero project that was a kick, even though it wasn't much money.) But I won't get into the details of asking about the theme, nor offering my credentials, unless I have a straightforward talk about the transaction. If it can't be discussed in public, then that's a problem for me---and for a lot of writers I know.

But I don't want you to think I'm ganging up with anyone on this thread, JUST to back them up. I'm not positive I've actually interacted with anyone here before (maybe, but not regularly.) EFCollins is right that I didn't "bestow" my user title on myself. I'm not positive I'm always deserving, but it was voted by the Mods and I work hard to live up to it by NOT offering bad advice. It's like winning the Nobel Prize. You gotta KEEP earning it once you have it...

ghosted said:

All I asked was, if you are interested them email me and we'll get down to basics. If I hashed out the basics before hand then the interested would not come forth.

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OK, I don't mean this as an attack, but why is this so? Are the details so unappealing that once people know about them they won't want to be part of the project? If that's the case, then keeping the details a secret isn't going to help.

Many writers would be interested in writing a novella for this sort of thing, but most of us would want to know what we are getting into beforehand. It's kinda like marriage; would you marry someone you've never seen, never met and knew nothing about? Of course not.

There are a LOT of scams out there that prey on writers because many of us are vulnerable to them, so you have to forgive folks here for being cautious. Sorry you got a bad first impression, but if you think about it, it's just writers looking out for other writers. You might appreciate that if you were on the other side of this coin. Just sayin'...

(Oh, and thanks, CathyC, for showing us once again why you have that tag in the first place...)

ghosted said:

I can handle opinions. But if they seem as a personal attack telling me I am trying to swindle, then that is where I draw the line. After dealing with P.A. I would never stoop to that level. Right now, writing.com is the place that is honest and accepting. There I get encouragement and corrections without being blasted. So far here I am not.

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My condolenses were out of pure sincerity if you were wondering. I've been there myself when I knew nothing about how the publishing industry worked.

ghosted said:

I haven't read every post in this thread. All I can say is I was trying to be a writer that helps out and gives others an opportunity. Did I go about it wrong? Maybe. All I can say is whatever was said is said and we all should start fresh.

I'm a writer and if I get a following fine. If not, then that is cool too. My stories still are written even if no money is made. And that is the difference. All I aimed to do was contact anyone who was interested.

First most, I write for me. Business side of things, publishers look at money. Can you blame them? No. That is why they are in the business. I am in it to reach people with my words.

All I asked was, if you are interested them email me and we'll get down to basics. If I hashed out the basics before hand then the interested would not come forth.

I can handle opinions. But if they seem as a personal attack telling me I am trying to swindle, then that is where I draw the line. After dealing with P.A. I would never stoop to that level. Right now, writing.com is the place that is honest and accepting. There I get encouragement and corrections without being blasted. So far here I am not.

I don't think greg is a bastard, just scorn.

All I wanted to do was find somebody interested. Did I make a mistake?


ww.adamplewis.com...new look...coming July 10th

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Adam, I'm sorry you feel this way. You too, Alcoholicnightterror (great name, by the way). Contrary to what you both seem to believe, I see this group as cooperative, encouraging and incredibly supportive. However, as you both know, publishing is loaded with scams. When someone new comes into a forum immediately offering a deal, or the possibility of some kind of publishing arrangement, its going to be looked at with some initial skepticism. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as an unhealthy thing.

Take a while to get to know people here. Participate in the give and take. Do some crits. Post some stories for critique, if you want. Given time, and not much time at that, I think you'll feel differently about it.

I'm closing the thread now. Anyone interested in contacting Adam about his project can do so through the links provided in the op.