Another court proceeding question

pmadams · Jul 2, 2009

Thanks to everyone who answered on my other thread about courtrooms and sentencing. Maybe some of you could give me some general guidelines on sentencing for a particular crime. The person convicted committed a robbery and during the robbery he shoots the man and woman he is robbing, killing the man and wounding the woman who does live. He pleads guilty to the robbery but claims that the shooting was not premeditated but provoked when the victim tried to jump him. What might this person be convicted of and what kind of sentencing would it carry? This would be in the state of Tennessee.
Would the fact that the shooting took place during a robbery make it a felony murder, and would this bring a death penalty charge?

RJK · Jul 2, 2009

When a homicide results in the commission of a felony (Robbery), the crime is Felony Murder. Every participant in the felony is considered guilty of felony murder. Your character would be eligible for the maximum sentencing in that state for murder. Claiming self defense is not a justification for the perpetrator of the robbery.

pmadams · Jul 2, 2009

RJK said:
When a homicide results in the commission of a felony (Robbery), the crime is Felony Murder. Every participant in the felony is considered guilty of felony murder. Your character would be eligible for the maximum sentencing in that state for murder. Claiming self defense is not a justification for the perpetrator of the robbery.

Thank you! Do you know if the charges for the shooting of the person that lived would be tired separately and also the robbery charges, or would it all be in one trial? Sorry, I just don't know much about this. This is not a huge part of my book, but I want it to be as accurate as possible. From what I have read so far, it looks to me like, in addition to the felony murder, there would also be an attempted murder charge, and a robbery charge as well as maybe felonious assault charges, but I don't know if there would be separate trials.

jclarkdawe · Jul 2, 2009

This would be a death penalty case, although the defendant might plea to a life sentence. One trial for the whole mess, as the prosecutor wants to make the defendant as nasty as possible. Prosecutor would probably limit the charges to felony murder, felony attempted murder, and armed robbery. Assualt is a lesser-included charge for murder and attempted murder. In other words, a jury could find that the prosecutor didn't prove murder (unlikely in this case) but did prove assualt.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

RJK · Jul 2, 2009

I agree with Jim, but the death penalty only applies in states that have a death penalty. New York, for instance, did away with it. This site shows which states do and which states don't.

MarkEsq · Jul 2, 2009

I shall agree with most of what is said, but I'll tell you that as a felony prosecutor who handles these kinds of cases, I would not try the defendant for both cases at the same time. I would try him for the man (murder, robbery etc) and the woman separately.

Reasoning: all the evidence of his shooting the woman would come into the trial for his shooting the man, there would be no way to keep it out. So, the defendant's horrible crime is presented to the jury in full but if, somehow, they find him not gulity of killing/robbing the man, I would have another crack at trying him for the armed robbery of the woman.

Also, just fyi, attempted murder isn't a charge we use here much, simply because it's a second degree felony - usually the attempt is made with a gun (as here) and we charge aggravated robbery or aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, both first degree felonies. Your jurisdiction may vary, of course...!

Aztecsince79 · Jul 2, 2009

To take it a step further, the reason this is murder is that by committing a robbery with a firearm, someone dying is not a result that is entirely unexpected. The robber is assuming that kind of risk and placing everyone in that location at risk.

RJK said:
When a homicide results in the commission of a felony (Robbery), the crime is Felony Murder. Every participant in the felony is considered guilty of felony murder. Your character would be eligible for the maximum sentencing in that state for murder. Claiming self defense is not a justification for the perpetrator of the robbery.

Soccer Mom · Jul 2, 2009

The law in TN on murder reads:

39-13-202. First degree murder. —

(a) First degree murder is:

(1) A premeditated and intentional killing of another;

(2) A killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate any first degree murder, act of terrorism, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, theft, kidnapping, aggravated child abuse, aggravated child neglect, rape of a child, aggravated rape of a child or aircraft piracy; or

(3) A killing of another committed as the result of the unlawful throwing, placing or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

(b) No culpable mental state is required for conviction under subdivision (a)(2) or (a)(3), except the intent to commit the enumerated offenses or acts in those subdivisions.

(c) A person convicted of first degree murder shall be punished by:

(1) Death;

(2) Imprisonment for life without possibility of parole; or

(3) Imprisonment for life.

(d) As used in subdivision (a)(1), “premeditation” is an act done after the exercise of reflection and judgment. “Premeditation” means that the intent to kill must have been formed prior to the act itself. It is not necessary that the purpose to kill pre-exist in the mind of the accused for any definite period of time. The mental state of the accused at the time the accused allegedly decided to kill must be carefully considered in order to determine whether the accused was sufficiently free from excitement and passion as to be capable of premeditation.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1030, § 15; 1991, ch. 377, § 2; 1993, ch. 338, § 1; 1993, ch. 473, § 1; 1994, ch. 883, § 1; 1995, ch. 460, § 1; 1998, ch. 1040, § 3; 2002, ch. 849, § 2a; 2007, ch. 158, § 2.]

Here is a link to the criminal statutes of TN. http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=

As you see under a(2), there is no culpable mental state required for killing someone in the course of committing robbery. Self-defense is not an issue and the jury would never be charged on it. As MarkEsq said, I would never try them together (and for exactly the reasons he stated.

And yes, the death penalty would be on the table.

pmadams · Jul 3, 2009

Wow! My thanks to everyone for all the information. This really helps me make my scene as accurate and believable as possible. I love this place, you guys are great!

alleycat · Jul 3, 2009

Remember that in Tennessee a jury will be allowed to find the defendant guilty of a lesser charge. The defendant may be on trial for first-degree murder, but the judge will then instruct he jury that they may instead find the defendant guilt of second-degree murder or some other lesser charge.

bagels · Jul 4, 2009

If you're in Tennessee, I'd really recommend a few things:

(1) Echoing others: Go to court and watch. It's an experience that words and accounts cannot accurately capture.

(2) At least out here in CA, public libraries have some great resources for legal research. We also have a legal library in Downtown LA that is open to the public. See if there is anything similar near you. Maybe even see if a local law school would let you crash their library for research (this can be really hit or miss - I would go the public library route first). There are some fantastic legal treatises that are sort of the legal version of "law for dummies."

(3) See if you can find a practicing criminal attorney who would be willing to sit down and talk with you. In my experience, criminal attorneys are a unique breed, and there's a good chance you would get story ideas from talking with him or her.

(4) Try to avoid watching films to learn accuracy. Dramatic license is taken to new heights with the legal field.

The actual law can be a good place to start research (and the internet makes that quite easy) but talking to practicing attorneys is priceless. They can let you know what the reality is, among other things.

For what it's worth, felony murder is considered somewhat controversial and some states have done away with it or modified it.

I really do think your best bet is talk with an attorney.

Another court proceeding question

pmadams

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

pmadams

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

Aztecsince79

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

pmadams

alleycat

Still around

bagels

Wannabe Intellectual