How much do I risk alienating female readers?

Ervin · Jul 1, 2009

Recently I paused a WIP of mine and started on something else, which is a fantasy novel set in a dystopian future. It involves a rebel organization fighting a very oppressive government in a very metropolitan area. I chose for the main character to be a girl (a first for me) for two reasons. One is because futuristic style girls look extra awesome

. And two is because people generally view girls as being much more nimble and with more agility than guys. This is important because my book will consist of a lot of running and fighting in areas with plenty of obsticales. Wether it be inside buildings, rooftops, and so on. Sort of like in Mirror's Edge.

Because I will probably make sequels, thus making the overall story quite lengthy, I want to make room for some romance. But I don't think I would be good at (or would want to) sexually describing male characters. So my solution is quite simply making the MC a lesbian.

I want to know if I will alienate too many female readers by doing this. I know that (don't we all?) girls are generally much much less queasy about hugging, touching, ect, people of the same gender than guys are. But I still worry about how female readers would react once the sexual scenes come in. I do plan to limit them due to this, but still.

Any thoughts?

mscelina · Jul 1, 2009

Sounds to me like you're going to make your character a lesbian so that you can relate to her experience sexually, right?

Then you're not making her into a lesbian. You're making her into a man pretending to be a lesbian. That's not the same thing at all. If describing a character's sexual attraction to a male makes you uncomfortable and that's the only reason you're going to make her into a lesbian, then you might be better off just making the MC a nimble, agile male. There are nuances and emotional levels of lesbianism that would be ill-served by a character that's basically just a dude in disguise.

katiemac · Jul 1, 2009

mscelina is right, of course.

I know you've read the homosexuality thread, so I'll keep my response to the main question simple: You will always alienate readers in some way. Move away from this kind of thinking and write what you want to write, otherwise you won't get very far. But for the record, I don't think females will be alienated. Homophobics, perhaps.

You cannot alienate people who don't exist and, quite bluntly, your readership doesn't exist.

GD Marks · Jul 1, 2009

katiemac said:
You cannot alienate people who don't exist and, quite bluntly, your readership doesn't exist.

That is priceless and simple! Well done Katiemac.

I saw this title thread, and thought it was all going to start again..

Ervin - please don't write character thinking of the sequels (plot possibly?). Just write believable characters first.

gdm.

Toothpaste · Jul 1, 2009

Seriously? You have no desire to describe a member of your own gender in a sexual manner? You can't possibly stretch your imagination that far? You've never once looked at a man and objectively been able to recognise he was attractive or sexy? Quite sad really, you may wish to practice that, or are all your female characters going to be lesbians?

Hon, lesbianism isn't offensive. What is offensive is your squeamishness and insecurity with your own sexuality. Okay, maybe not offensive, just a little sad. Being able to describe a male character in a sexual manner does not make you less of a man.

What's more I find it interesting that an author would seek to indulge his weaknesses as opposed to attempt to overcome them. Personally whenever I face a challenge, "Oh I'm not good at writing that kind of stuff", I choose to get good at it by doing it, not by avoiding it. Face your fears, you can do it, and you'll be proud of yourself that you did.

ccv707 · Jul 1, 2009

Ervin said:
I know that (don't we all?) girls are generally much much less queasy about hugging, touching, ect, people of the same gender than guys are. But I still worry about how female readers would react once the sexual scenes come in.

This point of view is an over-generalization, to say the least. I've known many women to be bashful and/or prudish when it comes to "hugging, touching" involving same sex couples. Hell, my core group of friends, made up entirely of males, actively support same-sex rights, and none of us are gay. In fact, I personally know more girls than guys who don't like the idea of homosexuality (unfortunately, these opinions generally stem from religious roots), or, at the very least, find the thought of such things discomforting.

Second of all, you don't have to write sex into your story unless it adds something to the story. If it's important for the characters or the plot, then use it as such. But if you want to put in sequences of a sexual nature simply because you want your story to be more "edgy", it's as pointless of strutting girls in bikinis and putting them in a gunfight.

You alienate your readers by treating them like they think Michael Bay is a good filmmaker. Less is usually more. Do not forget that. You can imply things, and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions. DO NOT SPOON FEED YOUR AUDIENCE. They will hate you for it.

Cyia · Jul 1, 2009

If you make a character gay as a cop out - which is what you're describing - then it's going to show. Anyone who reads it will most likely feel something "off" about the characterization even if they're not sure what it is.

(And for the record, some of us girls don't like being touched period. It doesn't matter if the person in question is male or female. Touchy feely females are a sterotype.)

GD Marks · Jul 1, 2009

Ervin said:
I don't think I would be good at (or would want to) sexually describing male characters. So my solution is quite simply making the MC a lesbian.

Any thoughts?

Hi Ervin,

If you're uncomfortable thinking of a guy in that way, just imagine him as yourself. I mean, it should be easier to write realistically about what you get up to with a girl than what you think a girl would get up to with a girl. Just write about yourself from the girl's perspective. You don't have to 'get off on guys' or anything like that for it to work.

'Making her a Lesbian' isn't a good solution to your problems. Writing one unknown to replace another isn't good.

gdm.

katiemac · Jul 1, 2009

Too many authors think of the entire world as potential readers, even as they write the book. This is a problem. Moreover, to alienate someone suggests there was a previous relationship from which to alienate someone.

The simple truth is that readers come to you, and you build and maintain that readership once the book is published. The only way you can alienate readers is by writing a second, sucky book.

Stunted · Jul 1, 2009

Rebel lesbians of the future!?!? I don't know what you guys are talking about. That sounds awesome. (I'm a girl.)

One thing that you may want to consider to bring in more female readers would be to have her be a little bit of a "That's who I want to be character!" Think Anita Blake. Make her confident, badass, and smart. Those are good qualities for a futuristic rebel lesbian to have, right?

ccv707 · Jul 1, 2009

Stunted said:
Rebel lesbians of the future!?!? I don't know what you guys are talking about. That sounds awesome.

We aren't commenting on whether it's an "awesome" idea or not.

Shweta · Jul 1, 2009

I will happily read about straight men, straight women, gay men, gay women, and anyone in between on any axis. I don't see why women falling for each other would be offputting to a woman -- unless you write it as a male sex fantasy of HAWT LESBIANS.

ETA: I see mscelina got there first and said it better. If you write them falling for each other as a male, rather than getting into their heads and allowing their perspective to be different from yours (and if you're uncomfortable about her falling for a man, that suggests you're not allowing her perspective to differ from yours), then it's just gonna read as boy's-own fantasy.

Mad Queen · Jul 1, 2009

Ervin said:
And two is because people generally view girls as being much more nimble and with more agility than guys. This is important because my book will consist of a lot of running and fighting in areas with plenty of obsticales. Wether it be inside buildings, rooftops, and so on.

Since everyone has already pointed out your other mistakes, I will say that as far as I know, the average man runs faster than the average woman and is also the better fighter.

sunandshadow · Jul 2, 2009

@ Ervin - I don't personally see anything wrong with making her a lesbian designed as a male fantasy and aiming the book at males. I write gay men designed as female fantasies and aimed at a female readership. Fortunately gay men also seem to like my characters, despite the fact that being female myself I'm never really going to understand what it's like being a gay man. But my choices work well with my disinterest in developing female characters or describing them as sexually attractive. Basically if you want to make her a lesbian go after that whole-heartedly, don't do it half-assed because you are afraid of losing hypothetical female readers.

@ Toothpaste - I think that's a little harsh. We're all artists here, with strong aesthetic preferences, and writing about something one doesn't care about is a recipe for crappy writing,. No one should force themselves to use characters or genres they dislike. If I one day get brave and create a female lust-object character it will be because I have a story idea that needs her character, not as some sort of "no pain no gain" experiment.

ccv707 · Jul 2, 2009

sunandshadow said:
@ Toothpaste - I think that's a little harsh. We're all artists here, with strong aesthetic preferences, and writing about something one doesn't care about is a recipe for crappy writing,. No one should force themselves to use characters or genres they dislike. If I one day get brave and create a female lust-object character it will be because I have a story idea that needs her character, not as some sort of "no pain no gain" experiment.

I agree with you on many points, but Toothpaste's just givin' some tough love. All in the name of constructive criticism.

Caramia · Jul 2, 2009

Well shoot. I realize I am not in the common core in my opinion but I don't read sex scenes of any kind. When I see one approaching, I skip til its over so I can proceed with the story. Regardless of genders and characters. Unless it is a love story or a romance (Think I've read one when I was a teen), it seems filler to me.

Ask yourself if the story will be better for seeing the MC in such a way maybe. In my thinking, 9 out of 10 sex scenes do not add anything worth reading.

And I echo the idea that females sometimes dislike being touched.

*shuffles off before the paddles start swinging* (I just woke up, have excuse..fingers and brain filter isn't awake yet!)

Caramia · Jul 2, 2009

Okay, got coffee now. Gonna regret my previous post later, but gonna let the words stand.

I neglected to answer the main question here. I, as a female reader, would not be alienated based on the genders of the characters in question. I simply wouldn't read the scenes anyway, so it's not a concern in my direction.

If it works, do it. If it doesn't, don't.

Kurtz · Jul 2, 2009

Mad Queen said:
Since everyone has already pointed out your other mistakes, I will say that as far as I know, the average man runs faster than the average woman and is also the better fighter.

I don't think we're talking about average men and women here seeing as the main character appears to be a fusion of the Bride from Kill Bill and Che Guevara.

errantruth · Jul 2, 2009

Mad Queen said:
Since everyone has already pointed out your other mistakes, I will say that as far as I know, the average man runs faster than the average woman and is also the better fighter.

I agree with MadQueen. I do not assume that women are more nimble and agile than men. I assume fitter people are more agile, and an alert, fit person will be the most agile.

And say what you will about Anita Blake--and I enjoy her--she is an exception. So you can write an exception, after all, all "superheroes" are exceptions, but don't justify it based on a generalization which doesn't work. Otherwise no-one will be adequately gobsmacked by her prowess

What worked for Anita Blake (imho) is that the focus was on her street smarts, tough guy exterior, paranoia, exhaustion, focus, dilemma, fears, etc... Ie not on the fact that she was "hot." Not because I'm straight. Because it was enough of a stretch that any one person could be so badass and brave. To throw in hotness would have been overkill. I can imagine her and her hotness is her insane courage.

I only mention it because you mention it....and I think you may be talking about female readers, but you're aiming for males. So just be aware of that

NeuroFizz · Jul 2, 2009

Ervin said:
Recently I paused a WIP of mine and started on something else

Have you finished anything yet? What will happen when you get part way through the new story? And what will happen to this original WIP?

And two is because people generally view girls as being much more nimble and with more agility than guys.

Really? Compare professional men basketball players to professional women basketball players. This is a sport that involves all aspects of coordination, nimbleness, and agility. Who is more graceful in this athletic event (keep in mind you are talking about athleticism when you are talking urban combat).

Because I will probably make sequels, thus making the overall story quite lengthy

This is a decision that should be made once one is well on the way to completion of a stand-alone first story.

I want to make room for some romance. But I don't think I would be good at (or would want to) sexually describing male characters. So my solution is quite simply making the MC a lesbian.

Sorry, but this logic totally escapes me.

I want to know if I will alienate too many female readers by doing this. I know that (don't we all?) girls are generally much much less queasy about hugging, touching, ect, people of the same gender than guys are. But I still worry about how female readers would react once the sexual scenes come in. I do plan to limit them due to this, but still.

Given your penchant for strange generalizations in this post, I see quite a risk of some cliched characterization in the story. Your challenge is to get beyond this pidgeon-hole thinking and invent a character who is much more than a bag of avoidances.

Any thoughts?

Yes. Give your readers some credit for having good, solid brains in their heads, and realize they can handle well-drawn characters of any mold and fiber. Also realize they can recognize sanitization and forced construction of characters in a heartbeat.

virtue_summer · Jul 2, 2009

My advice? Just make your main character a man. Men can be very agile and athletic, so one of your reasons for wanting a female character is moot. Then, unless your main character is intended to be incredibly vain, I wouldn't think you'd be spending a lot of time dwelling on her looks. So making your main character a female because you think futuristic women are physically attractive doesn't make much sense to me either. Why not just have a male main character fall for a woman? Then you can dwell on her looks a lot more, actually, without alienating readers. Last, a lesbian is not a man in a woman's body and writing her as such would be the major issue, at least to me, not the presence of a lesbian character which I have no problem with. So I repeat: my advice is to just write a man. It sounds like that's what you're actually comfortable with anyway. Or cut out the love story or just the sex scenes, if that's the only part that's bothering you.

john barnes on toast · Jul 2, 2009

In theory, there's absolutely no issue with having the MC as a lesbian in this story.

However, your motives behind the decision seem so skewed, that it suggests, to me at least, you're making a rod for your own back here.

Suggesting that you couldn't describe a character's attraction to someone of your own sex, sounds either a bit immature, or a serious admission of weakness in your own writing. You're better than that aren't you?

I think one unnecessary obstacle you're creating for yourself is this assumption that any attraction needs to be explored in an overtly sexualised manner. A burgeoning attraction won't be weakened through being expressed in non-physical terms. If anything it'll be strengthened for not reducing the character to his physical/sexual attributes.

If your female MC brings the guy a coffee when she's not obliged to, it'll suggest attraction in a much more interesting way than her fawning over his bulging pectorals.

KTC · Jul 2, 2009

Ervin said:
But I don't think I would be good at (or would want to) sexually describing male characters.

Right here is your problem. Sexually describing your own gender does not make you gay. It would seem to me that this is what you're worried about. That sounds a little homophobic to me. I think you have to get over this. You're writing fiction, not your own desires.

Ervin said:
So my solution is quite simply making the MC a lesbian.

There is a difference between a a lesbian and a female character who is forced to be a lesbian because the writer can't or won't write about male sexuality. People are going to see right through this. A lesbian isn't a guy pretending to be a woman because he's attracted to women.

DON'T DO THIS.

If you can't deal with the sexuality issues, make your lead a man.

GD Marks · Jul 2, 2009

<gasp>

Who crossed out your mouth? Did you do something bad?

I agree though. Don't do it!

xXFireSpiritXx · Jul 2, 2009

I feel bad for this guy he has yet to come back with a rebuttal. So, I will give the shout out.

Ervin, you have read a multiple of perspectives all with their own merit. I believe some were harsh but tough love can hurt.

In my opinion, I agree with the consensus, don't do it. The readers will sense something is not right.

How much do I risk alienating female readers?

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