Beyond a disc

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Thomas_Anderson

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I was just thinking of what people would store stuff on in the future. Would we still be using what would recognizably be optical discs? Back in the fifties they figured we'd be using magnetic tape forever, and now that seems like dark ages.

A common variation that shows up a lot is a crystallic cube. Does this have any practicality? It seems like a step backwards as it's sort of like a disc only more cumbersome. But I suppose if such a structure is somehow better for storing 500 Teerabytes of data...

Or perhaps we store up to five hundred movies on an ipod-like device and simply play it on big screen tvs. What are some of your ideas?
 

Apsu

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How about we need to store nothing. Personally that is.

For instance, even now, I don't always have a disc when I want to watch a movie. I can turn on Netflicks or some other Web site and just watch what I want.

First I needed to own a set of encyclopedias. Then I needed to own the discs. Now I can subscribe online, or even use free sites like Wikipedia.

So, perhaps in the future, I don't need to own any data. I just need to own the device to access the data, and can access it anywhere, any time.
 

blacbird

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So, perhaps in the future, I don't need to own any data. I just need to own the device to access the data, and can access it anywhere, any time.

Which, of course, brings the issue into the court of "Who controls the data?" A Science-Fiction concept used by great writers many times before, but powerful and still relevant.

I don't know about you, but I like having my word-processor residing on my own computer's hard drive, and not existing on some remote server which I can access only via some nebulous other person's or organization's permission. USB flash drives have been a revolution; tiny physically, with tons of info storage capacity, now ubiquitous and very very cheap. They will doubtless improve in terms of capacity in coming years, but we may be reaching a plateau in terms of need for smaller and smaller storage devices. Christ, I can now store 1000 full-length novels on a thing the size of a cat turd. What more do you need?

Speaking of cat turds, there's the litter box I need to clean . . .

caw
 

Lhun

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A common variation that shows up a lot is a crystallic cube. Does this have any practicality? It seems like a step backwards as it's sort of like a disc only more cumbersome.
How is it more cumbersome? The general idea behind "crystal cubes", apart from those authors who just copy an idea without understanding it, is to have a three dimensional optical memory instead of a two dimensional. More data per volume obviously. And if it is an actual holographic memory it has lots of other advantages as well.
The really big question in what storage medium to use always was and always will be for what purpose you're storing stuff. Magnetic tapes are still being used quite lot, for server backups and the like. (System backups, not storage backups)
A holographic crystal could provide an incredible amount of space, and is quite safe, but would most likely not be easily re/writable.
Solid state memory chips on the other hand will most likely replace all magnetic storage mediums for the foreseeable future, and have quite a lot potential to get smaller and faster still, but are not too reliable for long-term data storage.
Or in short: crystals are very practical for libraries, or even your personal movie collection, while you'll want a memory chip for storing anything you actually need to edit.
 

blacbird

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Solid state memory chips on the other hand will most likely replace all magnetic storage mediums for the foreseeable future, and have quite a lot potential to get smaller and faster still, but are not too reliable for long-term data storage.

They are fully as reliable and long-lasting as magnetic disc media. Probably more so, and it's much easier to make multiple redundant copies.

I foresee a time, not far down the road, when solid-state memory devices will be powerful enough to contain entire computer operating systems, and we can travel anywhere and plug them into cheap slave terminal-keyboard-monitor arrangements as needed, and do our work, unplug the things, and walk away with the whole enchilada in a pocket. Hotel rooms, coffee-shops, etc., will simply be expected to have the relevant slave hardware available.

caw
 

Izz

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We'll store stuff in our brains. We'll be able to upload directly to our mind. It's also likely we'll have storage devices via cybernetic implant, as in, electronic fingers (that's already been done, crudely) that can plug directly into computer systems. We'll be able to play and project media from cybernetic eyes (someone's already gone and installed a camera in an empty eye-socket). Tattoos will be replaced by media imprints (as in, little video clips--think virtual frames, but on a body--etc).
 

K. Andrew Smith

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I foresee a time, not far down the road, when solid-state memory devices will be powerful enough to contain entire computer operating systems

This is already the case. There's solid state 256gb hard drives on the market. Now the OS isn't really there yet, at least mainstream, but the technology is definitely there.
 

blacbird

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We'll store stuff in our brains. We'll be able to upload directly to our mind. It's also likely we'll have storage devices via cybernetic implant, as in, electronic fingers (that's already been done, crudely) that can plug directly into computer systems. We'll be able to play and project media from cybernetic eyes (someone's already gone and installed a camera in an empty eye-socket). Tattoos will be replaced by media imprints (as in, little video clips--think virtual frames, but on a body--etc).

Sounds way Matrixy. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that, for sure.

caw
 

Izz

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This is already the case. There's solid state 256gb hard drives on the market. Now the OS isn't really there yet, at least mainstream, but the technology is definitely there.
I used to run Knoppix off a 2GB memory stick. Admittedly, i needed a host PC to run it from, but it was plenty portable.

blacbird said:
Sounds way Matrixy. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that, for sure.
USB Finger
Eye-socket camera
 

benbradley

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I was just thinking of what people would store stuff on in the future. Would we still be using what would recognizably be optical discs? Back in the fifties they figured we'd be using magnetic tape forever, and now that seems like dark ages.

A common variation that shows up a lot is a crystallic cube. Does this have any practicality? It seems like a step backwards as it's sort of like a disc only more cumbersome. But I suppose if such a structure is somehow better for storing 500 Terrabytes of data.

Or perhaps we store up to five hundred movies on an ipod-like device and simply play it on big screen tvs. What are some of your ideas?
Actually, the densest and most cost-effective medium is still the mechanically spinning, magnetically-encoded hard disk (I recall some iPod models have or had these), whose storage capacity has continued to grow exponentially. I read about PMRL in EE Times over ten years ago, and I thought that was was a "bit" freaky (if you write bits too close together on a magnetic medium, you can't read each individual bit back as a pulse, but each combination of 1's and 0's makes a unique waveshape in the read head...), and there are so many other techniques that have contributed to higher density drives... we now have terrabyte drives for $100. That's 50,000 times the size of the first disk drive I bought, and THAT one could store dozens of novels.

But why a big screen TV when you can have eyeglasses that project the big-screen image into your eyes? It's just another little wire coming out of your iPod, along with the two for the earphones earbuds.

I recently got a "Traveller" brand video camera at Aldi, on sale for $80. It's a little smaller than a pack of cigarettes. In some ways it's a piece of crap, it's got two fixed focus points - infinity, and a "macro" switch changes the focus to about 10 inches. Anywhere else and you're screwed. I've had a heck of a time getting good, in-focus still pics of close-up things out of it. I just keep moving it in and out and hit the "shiutter" button. The display shows SD memory card space in still pics available as I do this, usually 870 or so. It's good it'll store so many on a 2 gb SD card (it's about the size of a key head), as I need to take so many to get one that's in focus. I can turn it off, pull the memory card out and stick it in my computer's front panel to copy the pics to my hard disk.

The 2 gigabytes on the chip is only two-dimensional - the circuitry is surely less than a thousanth of an inch thick on top of a slice of silicon. If it could be made in three dimensions, it would be an inch thick, and hold several terrabytes. Not sure if that would be useful on this camera, 2 gig is already enough for 800 pics or 2 hours of video. Well, it DOES have a display and headphones, so you could then have a few hundred movies on it, in case you found yourself stuck on a desert island.

They are fully as reliable and long-lasting as magnetic disc media. Probably more so, and it's much easier to make multiple redundant copies.

I foresee a time, not far down the road, when solid-state memory devices will be powerful enough to contain entire computer operating systems, and we can travel anywhere and plug them into cheap slave terminal-keyboard-monitor arrangements as needed, and do our work, unplug the things, and walk away with the whole enchilada in a pocket. Hotel rooms, coffee-shops, etc., will simply be expected to have the relevant slave hardware available.

caw

How about we need to store nothing. Personally that is.

For instance, even now, I don't always have a disc when I want to watch a movie. I can turn on Netflicks or some other Web site and just watch what I want.

First I needed to own a set of encyclopedias. Then I needed to own the discs. Now I can subscribe online, or even use free sites like Wikipedia.

So, perhaps in the future, I don't need to own any data. I just need to own the device to access the data, and can access it anywhere, any time.
What's the online Google thing, the word processor, where your files are stored online? Google Docs or something. Like Gmail (and yahoo and hotmail), but the program and your documents are online, and you only need an online computer to get and operate on them.

But yes, a lot of people ARE uncomfortable with that, not having a copy onhand of their files, and having to go to "The Man" to get to their files.
 

benbradley

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They are fully as reliable and long-lasting as magnetic disc media. Probably more so, and it's much easier to make multiple redundant copies.

I foresee a time, not far down the road, when solid-state memory devices will be powerful enough to contain entire computer operating systems, ...
Hmm, I recall the Apple ][ booted of a 140k floppy drive, and if you had enough 2716's, you could make your own "floppy drive" and have it boot instantly. Maybe you're trying to say something I'm missing...
 

Nivarion

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They are fully as reliable and long-lasting as magnetic disc media. Probably more so, and it's much easier to make multiple redundant copies.

I foresee a time, not far down the road, when solid-state memory devices will be powerful enough to contain entire computer operating systems, and we can travel anywhere and plug them into cheap slave terminal-keyboard-monitor arrangements as needed, and do our work, unplug the things, and walk away with the whole enchilada in a pocket. Hotel rooms, coffee-shops, etc., will simply be expected to have the relevant slave hardware available.

caw


Errrm, they do... http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ Really you can do that with any OS, but windows and Mac tend to be a little more picky with it. A nice version of win98 (with OMG load of drivers) actually seems to handle the jump well, even if it takes a long time to boot.

Its simple, install to the portable hard disk or flash drive, and place your files in its system directory, when you get to your host comp open its bios and tell it to boot from the USB port you have it in.

I really do see something like implants based on the brain. We already know it can hold a 100+ years of memory (even if they *corrupt*) and I'm sure with some tinkering we could have a small artificial brain that goes into the real brain and has back up systems for all of your brain, and will hold your movies and files. Imagine that, you wouldn't need a keyboard even to write. No screen or glasses, it would just play in your mind.

And if you got shot in the head, or other similar accident to the brain, this thing might be able to keep you alive from it, and if not you have your memories and personalities in a nice little box. Time to find a cadaver eh? :D

Well its late, and i'm starting to ramble on and on. Good night Yall!
 

Lhun

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They are fully as reliable and long-lasting as magnetic disc media. Probably more so, and it's much easier to make multiple redundant copies.
Magnetic media are not reliable for long term storage, except where specially designed for such a purpose, which are the ones that are again not useful as RAM.
In my personal experience you can expect to have to exchange a few (say, 2-4) hard drives out of a hundred per year. Solid state memory is more reliable when left unperturbed, but more prone to defects when being constantly used.
 

TMA-1

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It depends how far into the future, but I think for a couple of decades we will still use optical discs, even though they might be improved upon (CD->DVD->BluRay->?). Holographic storage maybe? Perhaps solid state memories will become more common and replace the harddrive. Also, store everything in the cloud and access it anywhere with your PC, mobile phone, your car's computer, the computer controlling your house, etc.
 

Pepper

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Synthetic brain tissue? The human brain is able to compute and store a helluva lot more data than anything in existance right now. Do some research on what biological tissue we're able to "grow" now, and expand on it. I see perhaps something the size of a USB memory stick that has a "slide" of synthetic brain tissue that clicks into it. Huzzah! Ample memory and computing power. The new technology saturates the market until people take such far-out technology for granted. Then we find out that the brain slides aren't synthetic. :D Mwahahaaa
 

Izz

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But with brain tissue we have a tendency to forget things.
Not so much. We actually forget nothing. Everything remains stored until the day we die (or we lose part of our brain in an accident). It's more that the pathways/synapses that carry the information from one place to another tend to break down or, in stressful situations, not work reliably, as well as the fact the brain shuffles information about, so the stuff we're always using is (theoretically) readily available, whereas the stuff we don't use so much, or never, is put in deep storage.
 

Pepper

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Not so much. We actually forget nothing. Everything remains stored until the day we die (or we lose part of our brain in an accident). It's more that the pathways/synapses that carry the information from one place to another tend to break down or, in stressful situations, not work reliably, as well as the fact the brain shuffles information about, so the stuff we're always using is (theoretically) readily available, whereas the stuff we don't use so much, or never, is put in deep storage.

QFT :)
 

blacbird

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Not so much. We actually forget nothing. Everything remains stored until the day we die (or we lose part of our brain in an accident). It's more that the pathways/synapses that carry the information from one place to another tend to break down or, in stressful situations, not work reliably, as well as the fact the brain shuffles information about, so the stuff we're always using is (theoretically) readily available, whereas the stuff we don't use so much, or never, is put in deep storage.

I dunno. I work with a guy who, I swear, goes home every night and just plain empties his brain in the trash compactor. He can't remember the simplest thing from one day to the next. What you tell him one day, you need to tell him the next, and the one after that, and . . . I can't count the number of times I've showed him how to download and save an attachment in his e-mail. I've known him for more than 20 years, and he's always been this way.

Fortunately, he retired (at age 58) last month.

caw
 

Smiling Ted

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Not so much. We actually forget nothing. Everything remains stored until the day we die (or we lose part of our brain in an accident). It's more that the pathways/synapses that carry the information from one place to another tend to break down or, in stressful situations, not work reliably, as well as the fact the brain shuffles information about, so the stuff we're always using is (theoretically) readily available, whereas the stuff we don't use so much, or never, is put in deep storage.

The nature of biological memory is still very much up in the air.

There's a lot of research now that suggests that much of our memory isn't recalled, but rather "dynamically recreated" - according to what we believe happened.

It would be comforting to think that nothing is ever lost...
 
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