Immortals and you

I think puberty and brain chemistry are important only if you believe they are, in order to create a compelling character. Immortality is, in many respects, magic. We are not immortal, so there really are no rules binding us when we write characters who are.

I have only just started writing my first "traditional" vampire in my current WIP. He's over five hundred, but he was turned around the age of thirty-five, so he doesn't have the issues of puberty to deal with.

One of my trunked manuscripts deals with ghosts, and the question of what part of you gets trapped here. One of the characters died when she was fifteen, and she's been dead for about six years when the story starts. She still talks and thinks exactly as she did when she died.

I've actually never written about immortals. Most of my stories were about zombies, girl scouts as a metaphor for zombies, a talking crab, a present-day sorceress, powered armor, and--in my online serial--a pair of near-future mercenaries.

I do want to point out a non-magic "immortal" in SF--Lazarus Long. I believe he is long-lived resulting from breeding experiments--in addition to rejuvination procedures.

I am new to writing immortals but I totally get the situation you are trying to attack. My approach is that I use it as part of the conflict in the story.

My teen immortals are constantly battling their adolescent cravings and experiences thus frustrating themselves by not being able to control their "skins".

They are always commenting on how hungry they are, how horny they are, and how--despite their worldly experience as immortals who have "lived" for thousands of years--they are influenced by the bodies they inhabit.

It's fun for me to do it this way, plus kind of gets at that angsty teenage experience that even us mortals go through.

The title of this thread made me giggle.

I have an immortal character in the form of a demon. He's going through a mid-life crisis, poor guy. Starting to get bored with the world. Torturing souls just isn't as much fun as it was a couple thousand years ago...

But yeah, I adore authors who can make their immortal characters feel immortal, and not just, "Oh, yeah. Joe over there is 600 years old." An example that comes to mind is Patricia Brigg's werewolves. Having been born hundreds of years ago, they tend to be resistant to society's changes in outlook on things like feminism and gay rights. They're influenced by the times they were born and raised in, and I think that's a good detail to consider.

Leanan-Sidhe said:

An example that comes to mind is Patricia Brigg's werewolves. Having been born hundreds of years ago, they tend to be resistant to society's changes in outlook on things like feminism and gay rights. They're influenced by the times they were born and raised in, and I think that's a good detail to consider.

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Agreed. Briggs does an amazing job handling the longevity that comes with being a werewolf.

Poor Samuel....

Keep in mind a weird fact of biology. Time "moves faster" as you age (and I can "sort of" prove it beyond the occasional person saying so)

When you're 5, a year is 1/5 of your life.
When you're 10, it's 1/10
When you're 20, it's 1/20
when you're 50, it's 1/50

The odd thing about the human brain is that it's actually rigged to realize this. Which means that for an immortal (at least one based in human physiology) time will start to blur as they age to the point that a mortal life span is literal like a blink of the eye.

My characters aren't immortal.
They just think they are, because they live in Encino, and it feels like forever.

My elves aren't immortal, but they are long lived. The life expectancy for my elves is about one thousand. They have the same maturation rate as we do, but are kept in their physical primes, so they can look like twenty year olds for quite some time. They age like we do, just significantly slower.

I haven't quite decided which actual age matches up to apparent age yet, but their attitudes change with time. After twenty but before one hundred year olds are typically viewed as we view twenty year olds today, they're still young and new to the world. Some are smart, many are brash, and this is the age range that most commonly associate with humanity. At an academic level they know that they will outlive any human friends they meet ten times over, but they don't fully understand it, and some seek out human friends. Half elves are generally sired by elves at this age, though it is quite unusual for an elf to be quite that intimate with a human.

At one hundred to the three hundred is how we typically view thirty year olds. More experienced about the world, but still quite young. At this age they don't interact with humans much anymore, or if they did, not as much as they use to. If they had human friends earlier, they're all dead by now, which causes grief. Four hundred year olds are kind of in the middle of the stage. Five hundred and up, elves are generally in high positions of their respective societies. Usually very powerful at this age, and it's almost unheard of for an elder elf to associate with a human for anything other than business or magic.

I also have vampires, which are, in theory, completely immortal. However, given that the government in my setting has open season for vampires due to their danger and there is no such thing as a benevolent vampire in that world, few live to be older than one hundred.

Cyia said:

Keep in mind a weird fact of biology. Time "moves faster" as you age (and I can "sort of" prove it beyond the occasional person saying so)

When you're 5, a year is 1/5 of your life.
When you're 10, it's 1/10
When you're 20, it's 1/20
when you're 50, it's 1/50

The odd thing about the human brain is that it's actually rigged to realize this. Which means that for an immortal (at least one based in human physiology) time will start to blur as they age to the point that a mortal life span is literal like a blink of the eye.

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I've certainly noticed that the older I get the faster time seems to pass, and my friend who is the same age said the same thing to me.

The oldest character I've written is about 100. His species' natural max lifespan is 400-500, but at the beginning of the story he feels old because he's spent about 70 years bonded to a human partner, while that partner aged and eventually dies of old age. He also has spent a lot more time in human society than his own species' society, so he's aware of how fast human tastes change, and that much of his knowledge is bizarrely antique by the standards of younger humans. He's even in the military history books that young human soldiers have just studied.

The first part of the story follows him coming out of his grieving period for his late partner and entering a training-updated course alongside 20 year old members of his race (which is barely post-pubescent for them) and with the goal of pairing him with a new human partner in the 18-22 age range. So, surrounded by younger members of both species, he partially returns to a younger mindset himself, although he remains more patient than the younger ones, he can't be cowed by social pressure the way younger people can and is an expert at passive resistance, and he continues to see everything in the large context of his past experiences rather than the mix of dogma and idealism that mostly fills the younger ones' heads.

My MC is a reincarnated soul so he's lived a very long time, but he's only been human for about 20 years so he ends up almost average - he's had just enough time adjust to being human and human instincts/nature and the world.

So really all he's left with is flashes of past lives in animal form and old instincts. I didn't do that deliberately, it's just how things turned out And it makes writing him a whole lot easier since that happened. He ages the same as everyone else, and gets hurt, and has normal human limitations.

The body is not made to be immortal...I find it hard to believe in 400 year old vampires and that sort of thing. I just don't see how the human body, even enhanced, is able to handle that much wear&tear and fatigue.

SilverPhoenix said:

The body is not made to be immortal...I find it hard to believe in 400 year old vampires and that sort of thing. I just don't see how the human body, even enhanced, is able to handle that much wear&tear and fatigue.

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Same reason humans can change size/shape/mass into werewolves. As Bill said in True Blood, "It's magic."

I have various forms of immortals in my present MIP.

The hero is immortal--not in that he can't die, it's that Death won't keep him and keeps healing his body and sticking him back in it. His memory spans from his childhood some 4000 years ago until present day, but he is human (mostly), so memory is normal.

There are gods who are immortal. Though they were born human, when they acheived godhood, their bodies are altered by the power so they're no longer human. They retain their memories and personalities from when they were human, but there's limitations on what they remember/know once they become gods. So if an elder or a child becomes a god, they stay at that mental/emotional age for the rest of existence.

There are reincarnated humans also, who remember all their lives (but not their deaths, as the hero does) and retain their magical gifts and skills from their previous lives. Physicially, they're completely normal--birth, live, die, reincarnate.

But that's for THIS book. I've done other things for other stories--whatever fits and is cool. I don't care about the scientific reasons for anything I do. It just doesn't matter. That's my joy in writing Fantasy--be gosh-wow and consistent within the story and I'm good to go.

I don't buy any immortal character who acts like someone younger. These are people who have literally seen and done it all already. They're going to be jaded, cynical, set in their ways - like any really old person we know already, only more so.

I can't see any credence in the idea that their body would affect them. The teenager's hunger, for instance, is dependent on their churning metabolism and growth. The immortal's body is, by necessity, in stasis. It won't have any of these cravings (you might make an issue of needing to keep all nutrients in balance if you were doing hard SF).

Douglas Adam's Wowbagger, The Infinitely Prolonged, is one of the finest examples.

When it comes to immortal characters, I recently read a book wherein it talked about scientists having found some sort of chemical that the human body naturally produces as we age that breaks down our own DNA - thus causing the effects of aging. It occurred to me while reading this that if scientists were to isolate the chemical further and find a way to inhibit its effects, humans would gain a kind of immortality. As long as the person altered in such a way maintained a healthy style of living, s/he could theoretically live forever since the effects of aging have been stopped. Of course, they'd also have to make sure they were never struck by lightning, hit by a speeding car, caught by a bullet, etc.



OT, I generally don't have an opinion on immortals, though I do have a nifty idea for a standalone novel for some point in time where the MC has such an increased lifespan that every else thinks he's immortal. The best immortal character I've experienced was Kaim from the game Lost Odyssey. Throughout the game you unlock memories of Kaim's and are told a story about it. Most are rather heartbreaking and you come to understand Kaim the more memories of his you read.

ChaosTitan said:

Same reason humans can change size/shape/mass into werewolves. As Bill said in True Blood, "It's magic."

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Which is why I'm also not keen on werewolves

DeleyanLee said:

I don't care about the scientific reasons for anything I do. It just doesn't matter. That's my joy in writing Fantasy--be gosh-wow and consistent within the story and I'm good to go.

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Yes, I would agree with this. Not that I don't like hearing about the science behind something--I do--it's just not totally necessary for me to get into the story. Being consistent within the story is more important to me.

Zachariah said:

I don't buy any immortal character who acts like someone younger. These are people who have literally seen and done it all already. They're going to be jaded, cynical, set in their ways - like any really old person we know already, only more so.

I can't see any credence in the idea that their body would affect them. The teenager's hunger, for instance, is dependent on their churning metabolism and growth. The immortal's body is, by necessity, in stasis. It won't have any of these cravings (you might make an issue of needing to keep all nutrients in balance if you were doing hard SF).

Douglas Adam's Wowbagger, The Infinitely Prolonged, is one of the finest examples.

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Wouldn't it depend on what kind of immortal you are talking about? Maybe we are being too broad with this term?

Zachariah said:

I don't buy any immortal character who acts like someone younger. These are people who have literally seen and done it all already. They're going to be jaded, cynical, set in their ways - like any really old person we know already, only more so.

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All immortals would act like Keith Richards then?

Yup. Just ask Keith Richards!

BigWords said:

All immortals would act like Keith Richards then?

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With or without the pirate costume?

My immortals don't concern themselves with regular humans - we are too far beneath them, too weak, unreliable, and are gone too fast to play a major part in their machinations.

Until one of us actually kills one of them.

I first read this and thought "Phsssh. I don't write about immortal characters." Then I actually remembered what I was writing about and thought "Duh."

So, vampires. Check. My vampires aren't necessarily evil, but they do tend to be greedy and slightly cowardly. (Fear of death draws them to embrace undying.)

Immortal because of magical snafu. Check. Eirra can't die until either soul or body is destroyed, but her soul is protected by a super-duper-very-strong magical container. Which, in turn, makes her physical body immune to pretty much everything but bullets/swords. (And it will heal, even reattaching lopped off parts.) Because she got into this situation for the wrong reasons immortality makes her a violent, unemotional killer.

Immortal because of technology. Check. Green is basically a high tech zombie. Of course, there's magic involved but the tech is what keeps his body from decaying and insures that his soul has a permenant place to stay.

I always figure that much of the rules of real brain/body chemistry go out the window when someone becomes immortal. It doesn't matter if a vampire was six when he turned. There are plenty of six year olds with way more smarts than me, and that's without an immortal lifetime to study.

The key, for me, is personality. A forty year old slacker will likely remain a slacker whether he's immortal or not. A ten year old genius will continue to be driven to learn and explore and experiment whether he's immortal or not. I think what makes a character tick has far more influence than how old they are when they become immortal.

At least, that's the way it works in my worlds.

Aggy B. said:

I first read this and thought "Phsssh. I don't write about immortal characters." Then I actually remembered what I was writing about and thought "Duh."

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Actually, I had that reaction, too. When I think of immortal characters, I don't think immediately of vampires. I think of gods and goddesses, demons and angels. Immortal, to my mind, means "can't die," not "won't die."