How not to write?

seun · Jun 2, 2009

The writer of this article says this is how not to write.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2008/nov/21/bad-novels-fiction

Agree or disagree?

Gillhoughly · Jun 2, 2009

I've always maintained that one should read a bad book to learn what not to do.

I just used fewer words.

Being a genre writer, my interest is providing entertainment. If something literary creeps into my works it is by accident, not design.

My heroes include Dorothy L. Sayers, who had the right answer for those who thought that a woman with her educational background should do something better with her talents than write mysteries. From Gaudy Night:

"I know what you're thinking - that anybody with proper sensitive feelings would rather scrub floors for a living. But I should scrub floors very badly, and I write detective stories rather well."

It is to be noted that many of the classics of today were considered trashy reading in the past, while many "literary" works of their contemporaries are all but forgotten. Conan Doyle, Chandler, Hammett, Ellery Queen, Mary Stewart, Tolkien, Bradbury, etc. were not good enough for the literati set.

Do a Google search for "bestseller" and any given year of the last century. How many of those books have you heard of, much less read?

Screw the literati set.

"If you want to send a message, use Western Union." - Louis B. Mayer

NicoleMD · Jun 2, 2009

I'm often as inspired to write after reading a "bad" book as I am after reading a good book. But my idea of a bad book might be someone else's idea of a good book and vice versa. Still, being exposed to negative examples of what you want to be as a writer is great for learning.

Nicole

motormind · Jun 2, 2009

I can only hope that one day my work will be mentioned in an article like that. Alas, it might be quite that bad, despite my valiant efforts.

Danjreid · Jun 2, 2009

NicoleMD said:
I'm often as inspired to write after reading a "bad" book as I am after reading a good book. But my idea of a bad book might be someone else's idea of a good book and vice versa. Still, being exposed to negative examples of what you want to be as a writer is great for learning.

Nicole

Bad books always encourage me, especially if I've been in a bad place with my writing. When I read something truly terrible, I think to myself "well if they can get published, I definately can!"

Its the opposite of reading good books, where I think "wow, I want to be able to write like that. I'll never be that good."

ccarver30 · Jun 2, 2009

I am reading Dead Until Dark by Charlaine Harris. Now, this book has turned in to a seies on HBO (True Blood). I don't know how many copies have sold, but I am sure Ms. Harris is doing well for herself. The problem? I see so many no-nos in this book that it is not even funny. Not to mention the typos. Anyway, my point is that I do not feel that this book is written well at all. I am still interested to read it though. It is just very... filled with things I try NOT to do- blatantly list out a character's description, use adverbs by the dozen, explain things that are done that no one cares about (like the list of things you do before going to bed- tmi). I dunno- it makes me feel a little disheartened, but as we have said, to each their own... wow I wrote a lot.

ccarver30 · Jun 2, 2009

By the way, her book sells for $7.99 at amazon. Yes, a paperback!!!

RG570 · Jun 2, 2009

I wonder how this guy is going to handle it when his name and photo appears on a shockingly similar blog post elsewhere concerning how not to style your hair. I mean, that's just pathetic. Shocking, even.

The guy seems like a bit of a douche, and some of the sentences he posted just needed to be trimmed a bit and they could have been neato.

I think in many cases, too much flak is directed to the writer and not the editor. There are editors still, right? You know, the guys who point out bad sentences and overindulgence to the writer, who has read his own work so much that there's no hope of catching the transgressions Mr. Flock Of Seagulls doesn't like to read?

virtue_summer · Jun 2, 2009

I must be strange because I'm not inspired by bad books. If I read a book and I'm hating it I put it aside. I don't finish it. I try to pretend I never started it. Good books inspire me. I think "if I can write just half as well as that person, I'll have achieved something." That is, when I manage to drag myself out of the fascinating story the author's telling. Bad books do nothing for me except make me wish I'd never spent the little time I did reading them. There's too little time in this life already. I want to spend as much of it as possible doing things I enjoy, not forcing myself to do things I'm not enjoying out of some idea that it will improve my self esteem. Or just teach me what not to do (what not to do, without being followed by what to do, isn't of much use). Of course I could be too arrogant already. I actually believe my writing is improving over time and that I can try to reach the quality of my writing idols (hey, shoot for the stars even if you never reach them because you may go further than you think).

If this post seemed a little like ranting it's because I haven't had enough coffee yet.

ccarver30 · Jun 2, 2009

RG570 said:
I wonder how this guy is going to handle it when his name and photo appears on a shockingly similar blog post elsewhere concerning how not to style your hair. I mean, that's just pathetic. Shocking, even.

The guy seems like a bit of a douche, and some of the sentences he posted just needed to be trimmed a bit and they could have been neato.

I think in many cases, too much flak is directed to the writer and not the editor. There are editors still, right? You know, the guys who point out bad sentences and overindulgence to the writer, who has read his own work so much that there's no hope of catching the transgressions Mr. Flock Of Seagulls doesn't like to read?

Good point and :roll:

Sarashay · Jun 2, 2009

A novel so bad that after 10 minutes' reading it's almost impossible not to fire it across the room like a 112-page Howitzer shell.

I lol'ed.

I think bad books can be entertaining in the same way that bad movies can. And they likewise can, in their way, be instructive. I recently read a book that had a few too many hey-wait-a-minute moments (little inconsistencies that were never resolved) and it made me more conscious of the hey-wait-a-minute moments in my own work and set me to fixing them. (Little things like "why is he asking for her phone number when he already called her two chapters ago?")

YMMV. Some say life's too short to read bad books; I think life's merely too short to read boring ones.

seun · Jun 2, 2009

The impression I got from the article was that the writer had an issue with over-written, arty farty writing rather than simply bad writing. Of course, you could say there isn't a difference betweeen the two, but I think the examples he gave are a particular kind of bad writing. It's the sort of stuff that makes me think the writer wants everyone to know they're a writer and is prepared to hammer that point home.

Tallent · Jun 2, 2009

Bad writing can teach a lot, but usually not how to write well. For that you need to model yourself after your favorite writers. Unless you are a voracious reader, it seems pointless to spend time reading bad books. I can only read a book every two weeks so I try to choose the best writers and learn from them.

Nateskate · Jun 2, 2009

The piece was more satire than a "How to write"

I understand the point. Bad writing is like bad food, sickening.

If there's a virtue in reading bad writing, then I lack the patience to gain the benefit. I'll put back books in Barnes and Nobels simply because I can't deal with the writing style. And I'll often make that distinction in 1 to 3 pages.

Now, at times, I'll feel that way about my own work, which is why I edit multiple times. I'll read something and get this sick feeling, "This isn't working..."

Sometimes I'll stare at a paragraph for twenty minutes trying to unscrabble the words within.

Libbie · Jun 2, 2009

Well, the author of the article makes some really good points. As somebody who is self-taught in every facet of my life, I can attest to the fact that efficient learners know how to find instruction everywhere. That includes looking at books, artwork, or methods for preparing the diets of captive birds and finding ways to improve on them, or just identifying what doesn't work for you, the observer. So yes, it is important to read bad books so you can understand why they feel bad to you, and so you can learn to recognize this badness in your own writing and avoid or correct it.

That being said, this:

"His foreshortened face appears in profile on the car window like an irregular graph of my doom, merciless as a mathematician, leering accompaniment to all my good resolves"

is, in my opinion, some straight-up fetid prose.

Mad Queen · Jun 2, 2009

Bad books are instructive and drive me mad.

Mad Queen · Jun 2, 2009

His foreshortened face appears in profile on the car window like an irregular graph of my doom, merciless as a mathematician, leering accompaniment to all my good resolves.

I take issue with "merciless as a mathematician". Mathematicians can be nice, caring people too.

Dale Emery · Jun 2, 2009

Even my favorite books have flaws. I'd rather learn from those.

Dale

Tallent · Jun 2, 2009

Dale Emery said:
Even my favorite books have flaws. I'd rather learn from those.

Dale

Those aren't flaws, they are the scares and laughlines that give the book character.

zanizh · Jun 2, 2009

Danjreid said:
Bad books always encourage me, especially if I've been in a bad place with my writing. When I read something truly terrible, I think to myself "well if they can get published, I definately can!"

Its the opposite of reading good books, where I think "wow, I want to be able to write like that. I'll never be that good."

Egggg-zactly!

But there is not a clear cut line between what is bad writing and what is good writing. I think Catherine Coulter's writing is simplistic and terrible, yet she is a Bestseller. Stephen King thinks Stephanie Meyer's writing is bad, yet she has millions of obsessed followers. I had a flash fiction piece that won first place in a contest. A group of editors for a magazine thought it was unrealistic rubbish. It's all a matter of opinion.

Rushie · Jun 2, 2009

I can't say if I agree with it or not; I'd have to read the book. But I can form an opinion about how not to cut your hair......

virtue_summer · Jun 2, 2009

Sarashay said:
YMMV. Some say life's too short to read bad books; I think life's merely too short to read boring ones.

We're defining bad differently. To me bad=boring. It means there's nothing there for me, nothing to hold my interest. A book that keeps me captivated despite flaws is not a bad book. It's an imperfect book still doing its job.

DavidBrookes · Jun 2, 2009

It is to be noted that many of the classics of today were considered trashy reading in the past, while many "literary" works of their contemporaries are all but forgotten. Conan Doyle, Chandler, Hammett, Ellery Queen, Mary Stewart, Tolkien, Bradbury, etc. were not good enough for the literati set.

Very very good point!

Bad writing to me is something that really doesn't at all try to be original. Just barebones "Harry went to the shops. There were lots of books on the shelves. Eventuall he picked one and bought it and took it home and read it. It was rather good".

I'd much rather read something that had some damn effort put into it - take a look at anything by M John Harrison (preferably his magic realism, rather than his sci-fi, of which I'm not a fan - his fantasy's very good but flawed too). Beautiful. There's a book that's apparently pretty famous called "White Queen", I forget who by, about alien contact. I remember stopping every five pages thinking "Damn! That's good writing!" It was like having warm honey poured over me.

AnonymousWriter · Jun 2, 2009

You can only learn from bad writing, if you recognise that it's so.

If not, then the effects could be devastating.

ccarver30 · Jun 2, 2009

AnonymousWriter said:
You can only learn from bad writing, if you recognise that it's so.

If not, then the effects could be devastating.

!!!!!!!!!!!!

How not to write?

Horror Man

Grumpy writer and editor

Onomatopotamus

Nicole Castro

Nicole Castro

Always learning

Nicole Castro

Shut Up and Write

Horror Man

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

California Mountain Snake

California Mountain Snake

is way off topic

Lost in Revision Hell

Always learning

www.spinninglizard.co.uk

Nicole Castro