Is poetry dead?

[curious1980]

When I ask if poetry is dead...I'm asking if a person can still become successful by writing poetry. The last successful person I heard of, who wrote poetry, was Maya Angelou. Now maybe this is because I'm not that into poetry (I write but I don't read it) or have friends who are...but it just seems to me that poetry is no longer a thing that a person can live off of. Is that really how it is or am I just not realizing other factors?

[caseyquinn]

Depends on your definition of succesful. Do you mean rich and become a full time poet? Then i would say there have been very few in the history of poetry that has been succesful. If you mean a person whose poems are read long after they are dead. I would say that it is alive and well.

[Ken]

... pardon the observation, but if you "don't read poetry" how can you prognose its well-being?

[Pat~]

Just my take, but poetry is only 'dead' in the eyes of contemporary book publishers and book agents. At least this is what several of them have told me. I even had the head of a prominent publishing house read my entire poetry devotional, (half the poems already singly published), and tell me he loved it--but he couldn't go with it because "poetry doesn't sell" and because books of that type almost always need color photography--which adds to the cost/risk for any publisher. Because of that, if you ask me if you can make a living on it, I'd say not likely, unless (maybe) you're a poet laureate.

Doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile pursuit, though. Just don't quit your day job.

[AnonymousWriter]

Now maybe this is because I'm not that into poetry (I write but I don't read it)
uh...what? That's like saying you write novels but never read any...

[poetinahat]

"I'm not a poet, but I play one on TV..."

If you don't even read it yourself, how would you know what makes other people want to buy it? Moreover, if you don't read it yourself, why do you write it?

I'm baffled.

[Perks]

We kill a lot of poetry around here, don't we?

The dead stuff is dead, but the rest is still at least twitching.

People who bend poetically most likely always will. I don't think they can breed it out of us.

[Blackest_Nite]

Poetry is only dead if people allow it to be. And apparently it is alive and well, judging by the previous responses. The question of popularity is a whole other matter. Then again, why should we ever do or not do something based on what is in 'style' or majority? Poetry has it's own audience just as sci-fi, fantasy, and non-fiction have theirs.

[C.bronco]

I don't think poets could ever live off of writing poetry, bu it sure isn't dead!
:)

[KTC]

the original post angers me too much to give a shit about answering. i do feel better for having stated why i refuse to answer though. but just a tad better. damn.

[curious1980]

Tons of questions directed to me and not enough opinions towards the topic. Why do I need to clarify myself in order for someone to state whether or not they think poetry is dead? I didn't post the question to baffle anyone or upset anyone. Just wanted to get people's take on the topic.

I have heard a lot of people stating (and I some what believe) poetry is dead or at least dying. Not that it's not being written because people write everyday (yes even a non-reader like myself). It's just that people don't talk about poetry anymore...people don't boast poetry anymore...and I don't know to many that read poetry. Honestly, outside of your circle of friends who write...who do you know reads poetry? I can't think of anyone. That's the reason why it seems to be on a downward slope.

[Dichroic]

If poetry is dead, there are a hell of a lot of necrophiliacs out there - tens or hundreds on this site, hundreds or thousands of other poetry sites on the web. No one is forced to read all of those.

[Izz]

Tons of questions directed to me and not enough opinions towards the topic. Why do I need to clarify myself in order for someone to state whether or not they think poetry is dead?Because very often the people who waltz in and post these types of questions never read poetry and are basing their assumptions on thin air. And often those people are being intentionally antagonistic.

Your post states you don't read poetry or know anybody who does. So therefore you make a statement that poetry must be dead. Right, and I don't play soccer, or know anybody who does, so obviously the sport of soccer is dead and buried.

Plus, your post is all based around what you define as a successful poet, which appears to be making a living from writing poetry. And then you mention Maya Angelou as an example of a successful poet, as in, someone who has made her living from her poetry. Maya Angelou, famous because of her amazing autobiographical work, so who can't actually be said to have made a living from her poetry, and who, to my knowledge, has never claimed to have made a living from her poetry. I'm not denying she's a good poet and worthy of the Pulitzer she won; what i am pointing out is the flaw in your perceived argument.

So if you march in and make a blanket statement about 1) what you perceive successful to be and 2) what you perceive a successful poet to be, without actually making any proper, logical case for those statements, then yeah, people might start directing questions back to you. And rightly so.

[Dichroic]

Making a living from poetry is probably not the best criteria of success or greatness, anyway. Robert Frost was a farmer, William Carlos Williams was a doctor, and Wallace Stevens was an insurance agent.

[Priene]

Is poetry dead?

I hope not.

[poetinahat]

I could have saved some time by just pointing back to Isaac's post, but here's my version.
Tons of questions directed to me and not enough opinions towards the topic. Why do I need to clarify myself in order for someone to state whether or not they think poetry is dead? I didn't post the question to baffle anyone or upset anyone. Just wanted to get people's take on the topic.

That might be an indication that your question wasn't clear. Don't blame the people who took the time to read and respond. Let's say fifteen people read your question. If fourteen of them thought it wasn't clear, where is the problem likely to be: the way they read it, or the way you wrote it?

And you *did* get people's take on the topic. Read all the posts. You got plenty of serious and thoughtful responses - more than you could possibly have expected, especially given that you don't even read the stuff yourself. If you bothered to read poetry, you might be farther along on the answer. And you really can't expect people to spend much time on answering your question if you don't care enough to read poetry on your own; don't you think you've answered your own question anyway?

There is at least one excellent thread in here on this subject. Have a read through this thread (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14413) and see if you still want to discuss. (For future reference, the Search tool here can be pretty helpful - third from the right on the menu bar above.)

[Norman D Gutter]

Poetry is not dead, but it is certainly in decline in terms of its influence in the world at large and even in the world of literature. The reasons for this are probably complex, having to do with fundamental changes in the nature of mankind as well as the normal ebb and flow between different forms of literature. Whether this decline is leading to death (with death defined in terms of influence, not in terms of prosperity) or whether poetry will snap out of it is a question that will be determined over the next century. Both influence and prosperity are related to sales and usage. Sales are down, I believe. Usage too is down, despite the many open mics and slams.

I'm not optimistic.

Best regards,
NDG

[TooJoyful00]

I truly understand your question and I can honestly appreciate your take on this topic. However I would like to give my feedback.
Poetry will never die because it's the soul of a writer.
As long as there's an idea, a paper, pen or a computer....poetry will always be around.

I will keep you posted once my book is published. I am surely looking forward to putting some life back into Poerty:)

Be blessed.




Tons of questions directed to me and not enough opinions towards the topic. Why do I need to clarify myself in order for someone to state whether or not they think poetry is dead? I didn't post the question to baffle anyone or upset anyone. Just wanted to get people's take on the topic.

I have heard a lot of people stating (and I some what believe) poetry is dead or at least dying. Not that it's not being written because people write everyday (yes even a non-reader like myself). It's just that people don't talk about poetry anymore...people don't boast poetry anymore...and I don't know to many that read poetry. Honestly, outside of your circle of friends who write...who do you know reads poetry? I can't think of anyone. That's the reason why it seems to be on a downward slope.

[Doomie]

[B]To Curious1980: [B]

I read your initial post, and read most of the reply posts; then viewed your profile page, and other threads and posts that are listed on your personal page. IMHO, I don't believe you meant any harm; you're just inquisitive. That's not a bad thing, but can certainly be misunderstood when motive and context come into play. Hey, Poets are like anyone else, in that they will protect the significance of their craft; are you really surprised that other members aggressively questioned your question? You're a screenplay and stageplay writer, correct? If a nonfiction book author posted a thread in one of those forums, and asked why people bother to write such things - while admitting that they neither write nor watch either - would you not wonder [aloud] why that person would care?

Now, about your question: The spoken word will never die. It will rise and fall, just like horror, sci-fi, and yes - stage plays. With so many people working, or wanting to work, in this day and age, why do producers continue to pour money into daytime soaps? Because there are people who still love it. I guess I've taken the scenic route to state that we all come under the umbrella of creative writing. And believe it or not, there are people out there that will find whatever it is that you do just as pointless. Try to be as encouraging and supportive of Poets as you would want them to be of you.

If anything, since you're a screenplay/stageplay writer, why not request the assistance of a Poet to create a character? Perhaps a script about a poet who is determined to make it as a poet? I mean, your characters do have occupations and/or passions, right? Right?? Riiiiiight???

[lorianne]

i think your question is more: is poetry dead to the masses who consume?

the answer would of course be yes. but they're the same people who buy $12 cups of coffee, watch reality TV and buy glossy magazines, not books...any books.

so really... does it matter if poetry is dead to them?

[scottVee]

Like anything else, it's a sliding window. To someone who loves poetry, poetry is not dead. Cast a wider net ... take 10 people in the neighborhood, most of them probably couldn't care less. Take a town of 100,000, surely the poetry crowd is a mere 1% or so. You can keep playing with the context to get any answer you want.

Take a coffehouse on an open mic night -- poetry's doing fine. Poetry gets entagled with music, and music isn't going away.

Regarding "success", again you can choose your definition to get any answer you want. Number of poets getting published = plenty. Number of poets that are satisfied, having found some small audience = quite a few. (Though one might intersect this with the set of poets/artists who can't be satisfied by anything.) Number of poets making $1000 a month with poetry alone = not so many, but it's not zero.

Questions like "is X dead" or "is X worthwhile" are both dead and not worthwhile. ;-)

[Gray Rose]

This question/sentiment from new posters appears here so often, I think it's time for a FAQ thread entitled "IS POETRY DEAD? Click here before posting."

[Izz]

This question/sentiment from new posters appears here so often, I think it's time for a FAQ thread entitled "IS POETRY DEAD? Click here before posting."Yeah, with a one-word answer beneath the question:


"NO."

[C.bronco]

All of the great, pulitzer winnig poets in the US also teach at universities. Being successful, however, as in affecting a lot of people and leaving a mark on this world is another thing.

[Gray Rose]

Yeah, with a one-word answer beneath the question:


"NO."

With links to previous threads, and a polite* entreaty not to post any new ones.

* optionally, impolite

[Feiss]

I think poetry faked his own death with an induced cardiac arrest and will have a "back from the dead tour" by the year 2023.

[Dichroic]

All of the great, pulitzer winnig poets in the US also teach at universities. Being successful, however, as in affecting a lot of people and leaving a mark on this world is another thing.

Assuming those poets don't suck as teachers, I can't think of a better way to "affect a lot of people and leaving a mark on this world".

[KTC]

I think poetry faked his own death with an induced cardiac arrest and will have a "back from the dead tour" by the year 2023.

2012, dumbass. It's in the bag...and it ain't in drag. Kitsch, by god...and melamine and cockle shells and pretty maids. All in a row. A fight, that is. A fit. 2012...I'm backstage all ready, sweet patootie. Hookah pipe in hand. Hello God, answer the phone. We'll have tea at 5. If you're still alive.

[brokenfingers]

Poetry isn't about being successful. It's about touching hearts.

[KTC]

Poetry isn't about being successful. It's about touching hearts.

wiggly ones still beating
in cavities filled with loads of blood.

[Dichroic]

I think poetry faked his own death with an induced cardiac arrest and will have a "back from the dead tour" by the year 2023.

Wait, poetry is Michael Jackson?

(Though Amanda Palmer's cover of Billy Jean (Youtube it) convinced me that maybe he could *write* poetry.)

[Feiss]

pretty much

[firstmidnight]

I don't think poetry is dead, but being reincarnated. Broadway is going through the same slump right now. During a recession and post-war, the arts become more... superficial (at least from what I know in theater and film). People need to be cheered up. They don't want to read things with depth or see things with depth. Right now, the only things selling in theater are those tacky movie-musicals. And films? It's not a hit unless Katherine Heigl is in it (and lord, what an actress?). It's harder for poetry though.

Think about it. When people go to lower school, middle school, high school, etc... think about it. What is their first impression of poetry? Robert Frost. Walt Whitman. Emily Dickinson. I'm not saying their poetry sucks by any means. They hallmarked things. There's merit in what they wrote. However, to a 13 - 16 year old hormonal teenager? Of course, that poetry is going to be dry and boring and it's going to leave a very bad aftertaste in their mouth.

That's why consumers don't bother with poetry. Their first impressions are slow to them and it lingers the older they get. If you got high schoolers to read Bob Hicok, Edward Fields, Gwen Brooks, Billy Collins, Allen Ginsberg, Elizabeth Bishop (the list is ENDLESS), I think you'd see a horse of a different color.

[TooJoyful00]

[b]To Curious1980: [b]

I read your initial post, and read most of the reply posts; then viewed your profile page, and other threads and posts that are listed on your personal page. IMHO, I don't believe you meant any harm; you're just inquisitive. That's not a bad thing, but can certainly be misunderstood when motive and context come into play. Hey, Poets are like anyone else, in that they will protect the significance of their craft; are you really surprised that other members aggressively questioned your question? You're a screenplay and stageplay writer, correct? If a nonfiction book author posted a thread in one of those forums, and asked why people bother to write such things - while admitting that they neither write nor watch either - would you not wonder [aloud] why that person would care?

Now, about your question: The spoken word will never die. It will rise and fall, just like horror, sci-fi, and yes - stage plays. With so many people working, or wanting to work, in this day and age, why do producers continue to pour money into daytime soaps? Because there are people who still love it. I guess I've taken the scenic route to state that we all come under the umbrella of creative writing. And believe it or not, there are people out there that will find whatever it is that you do just as pointless. Try to be as encouraging and supportive of Poets as you would want them to be of you.

If anything, since you're a screenplay/stageplay writer, why not request the assistance of a Poet to create a character? Perhaps a script about a poet who is determined to make it as a poet? I mean, your characters do have occupations and/or passions, right? Right?? Riiiiiight???



Well said without stepping on any toes.

[groovyville]

I know this is going to sound crazy, but in a way, I believe that poetry has always been dead.- lol
Now before you kill me, let me explain:
a) most people cannot make a living off their poetry
b) many people I've met don't see the point in poetry (sadly)
c) most famous poets are dead
d) people don't appreciate it as much as they used to
e) most people I know don't write poetry either
f) it's very hard to find someone who will publish your poetry who is not a self publisher and/or scam AND who will give you royalties from it

So yes poetry has it's place among us along with other things, but in a way it is sadly very dead. (we should probably hold a funeral one of these days-lol)

(please do not attack me for my post, I am a poetry fanatic who has written over 100 poems in the past 2 years, loves Robert Frost and Shakespeare, and has a google group all about poetry; I'm just pointing out the sad reality)

[KTC]

It's not a reality, though. Who says it has to financially support you for it to be alive. It's a vital pulse in the universe.


I know this is going to sound crazy, but in a way, I believe that poetry has always been dead.- lol
Now before you kill me, let me explain:
a) most people cannot make a living off their poetry
WHO CARES

b) many people I've met don't see the point in poetry (sadly)
WHO CARES. SAD FOR THEM

c) most famous poets are dead
REALLY?

d) people don't appreciate it as much as they used to
REALLY?


e) most people I know don't write poetry either
WHO CARES


f) it's very hard to find someone who will publish your poetry who is not a self publisher and/or scam AND who will give you royalties from it

UM. WHY WOULD THEY PUBLISH IT FOR FREE WITHOUT HOPING TO GET ROYALTIES FROM SELLING IT TO THE PUBLIC. THERE ARE COUNTLESS LEGITIMATE POETRY PUBLICATIONS OUT THERE THAT WILL PAY YOU FOR YOUR WORK...AND YET HOPE TO MAKE MONEY FROM IT.


So yes poetry has it's place among us along with other things, but in a way it is sadly very dead. (we should probably hold a funeral one of these days-lol)

(please do not attack me for my post, I am a poetry fanatic who has written over 100 poems in the past 2 years, loves Robert Frost and Shakespeare, and has a google group all about poetry; I'm just pointing out the sad reality)


Poetry is not dead. If it were dead, it wouldn't be a form. Poetry is not dead.

People have to stop thinking of poetry as a career.


Not attacking...just disagreeing vehemently.

[groovyville]

quotes from KTC (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3833137&postcount=36)
"d) people don't appreciate it as much as they used to
REALLY?"
Um.... yeah, Have you been in a high school English class lately?
All the kids think it's rubbish and a waste of time and don't even like it.
(we had a huge debate in my senior english class where it was me for poetry and the rest of the class against poetry)

"e) most people I know don't write poetry either
WHO CARES"
Well developing film is a dying/mostly dead art, and nobody cares about that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's DYING/DEAD


"f) it's very hard to find someone who will publish your poetry who is not a self publisher and/or scam AND who will give you royalties from it

UM. WHY WOULD THEY PUBLISH IT FOR FREE WITHOUT HOPING TO GET ROYALTIES FROM SELLING IT TO THE PUBLIC. THERE ARE COUNTLESS LEGITIMATE POETRY PUBLICATIONS OUT THERE THAT WILL PAY YOU FOR YOUR WORK...AND YET HOPE TO MAKE MONEY FROM IT."
well then please send me some links to some of them cause I'm exhausted from searching for them.


"Poetry is not dead. If it were dead, it wouldn't be a form. Poetry is not dead. "
Scratchboard is a dead form of art, it's still dead even though it's a form.

"People have to stop thinking of poetry as a career. "
well most people who love to write poetry want it to be their career

Not attacking...just defending

[Izz]

UM. WHY WOULD THEY PUBLISH IT FOR FREE WITHOUT HOPING TO GET ROYALTIES FROM SELLING IT TO THE PUBLIC. THERE ARE COUNTLESS LEGITIMATE POETRY PUBLICATIONS OUT THERE THAT WILL PAY YOU FOR YOUR WORK...AND YET HOPE TO MAKE MONEY FROM IT."[/I]
well then please send me some links to some of them cause I'm exhausted from searching for them.http://www.duotrope.com. Search under poetry. More markets than you can shake a stick at.

well most people who love to write poetry want it to be their careerI will respectfully disagree with this. Most people i know who love to write poetry write it because they love it, not because they want it to be their career.

[groovyville]

thanks for the link, gonna check it out right now

And I never said they write it only because they want it to be a career, what I meant was that poets wish they would make a career out of writing poetry because they enjoy it so much (I know i do)

[Gray Rose]

Groovy, welcome to AW.

The fact that people you know don't care about poetry is, how to say this mildly, completely unrelated to poetry's vitality. As a couterexample, most people I know care deeply about poetry, many publish poetry in paying markets, and some are "professional" poets. I have a good friend who is a creative writing/poetry professor and a poet, and another very close friend is a famous poet and a professor of comparative literature, newly appointed to a chair previously occupied by another, very famous poet.

Perhaps in your peer group poetry is dead, which doesn't mean anything, as I said before. Perhaps you need to expand your horizons a little?

Next, nobody makes their living writing poetry, no matter how famous you are. Poets have other jobs. Many are professors. In the past, poetry was often, but not always, written by people who had independent means.

If you want to make your living out of your poetry, you will sadly be very disappointed; this has nothing to do with poetry being dead or alive, but rather with unrealistic expectations. That said, it is very possible to earn money selling your poetry. It's not a lot of money, but it is definitely payment.

Check out Duotrope, as Iz already suggested. I will run out of poems to submit before I run out of places to submit them to. As for presses, etc - don't expect amazing royalties, but if you publish and gain a name for yourself, a poetry collection is not impossible. The Curiosities imprint of the independent Norilana press recently published three collections of speculative poets Mike Allen, Catherynne Valente and JoSelle Vanderhooft. Eventually I hope to have similar success. If you write mainstream, you have much more options.

Good luck with your writing!
Rose

[KTC]

Might I add...the fact that you love poetry should speak volumes to its heartbeat. It's alive, bud. You will find people who love it. In all cities there are circle of poetry enthusiasts. Sometimes you have to look for them, but they're there. As Gray Rose said...so say I...I have dozens of friends who love poetry very deeply. I go to readings and slams regularly. If there is nothing in your community...start something up. It's like baseball...if you build it, they will come.

[groovyville]

Might I add...the fact that you love poetry should speak volumes to its heartbeat. It's alive, bud. You will find people who love it. In all cities there are circle of poetry enthusiasts. Sometimes you have to look for them, but they're there. As Gray Rose said...so say I...I have dozens of friends who love poetry very deeply. I go to readings and slams regularly. If there is nothing in your community...start something up. It's like baseball...if you build it, they will come.

touche... you make an excellent point to which I have no response :flag: lol
:)

[Dichroic]

Many people seem to think knitting is a dying art, suitable only for old ladies. You can buy a sweater for much less than you can buy the yarn to knit one, and the realities of the time it takes means you can't sell what you knit (I'd have to charge thousands for a sweater to pay for my time). Yet its resurgence is such that "stitch and bitch" groups have sprung up all over the world (I've belongs to groups in Phoenix AZ, the Netherlands, and Taipei myself), knitting books are proliferating and Ravelry, a relatively new social networking site for knitters, is still in beta yet has just under four hundred thousand members.

An art does not have to be either popular in the mainstream or commercially viable to be vibrantly alive.

[Ken]

... poetry is a powerful medium of expression and those who shy away from it are suffering a great loss, similar to if their tongues and ears had been cut off.

[groovyville]

... poetry is a powerful medium of expression and those who shy away from it are suffering a great loss, similar to if their tongues and ears had been cut off.

I agree!