Motivation - two sides of the coin

peachiemkey · May 23, 2009

Say you read two books.

The first one is, well, bad. The writing is weak. The storyline is just weird. You simply don't like it.

Possible reactions:

A) HA! I can sooo write better than this. In fact, I think I will right now. *is motivated*
B) Seriously? This guy got published, and I can't? I might as well just stop trying... *is unmotivated*

The second book is pretty fierce. Great writing, storyline, the whole works. It deserves an award if it hasn't gotten one already.

Possible reactions:

A) That was such a wonderful read! I want to be like this author and affect my readers the same way. I'll try my hardest. *is motivated*
B) Oh wow. I suck, don't I? I'll never be able to write this well. Who am I kidding? I want to be a successful author? *is unmotivated*

Personally, my answers would be A and then B. Pretty much, I'm intimidated by greatness and buoyed by other's suckiness. Says something about my writing self-confidence, huh?

What about you?

RunawayScribe · May 23, 2009

Usually A and B for me as well...heh. I'm working on it, though - for the second question. When reading a book I think is wonderful, I'll usually go back through it and look at *why* I think it worked, so I can learn from the experience and better my own writing. It's helpful beyond belief. Doesn't mean stealing ideas or anything - just means looking at how the author handled moments, dialogue, twists, suspense, buildup, whatever. It can be really eye-opening, and after I do THAT with a great book, I come away feeling quite motivated.

ishtar'sgate · May 23, 2009

peachiemkey said:
Pretty much, I'm intimidated by greatness and buoyed by other's suckiness. What about you?

Actually, I'm enthralled with greatness and annoyed with suckiness (particularly my own

).

Ruv Draba · May 23, 2009

1C) What was this writer thinking? How could the writer have done better? Where can I find similar weaknesses and how do I learn from this?

2C) What was this writer thinking? How did this writer come to this story? Where can I find similar strengths and how do I learn from this?

BlueLucario · May 23, 2009

I had B. A lot. And when I just read Meyer, I realized this: I used to be just like her.

spamwarrior · May 23, 2009

A and A, and sometimes A and B.

Tocotin · May 23, 2009

As for the second one, it's neither A nor B for me. When I was a kid I used to react in the A way, ripping to shreds whatever I happened to have written prior to reading TEH AWESOME BOOK. But now I'm able to always find something wrong with even the ones I love and enjoy rereading. I smile and carry on, because the thought that there is no perfect book, yet so many great ones (and also that tastes vary), is reassuring and uplifting.

cwfgal · May 23, 2009

I try to analyze the work and determine what it is about the writing that make me love or hate it. What makes it work? Is it the characters? The language? The story line? The emotions it triggers in me? What makes it suck? is it full of flowery adjectives, weak verbs, and flat characters? Is it a display of the author's word knowledge? Is the story boring? And if so, what makes it boring?

Figuring those things out helps me strengthen my own writing and avoid the nasty pitfalls. Everything I read is a potential class session/textbook on writing. So don't let your ego get involved at all. Try to assess each work objectively and with an eye to learning something from it.

Beth

NeuroFizz · May 24, 2009

By far, the worst stragegy a gym-rat can adopt is comparing himself/herself to anyone else in the gym. It's all false motivation, and all about ego. There will always be someone more cut and buff or someone thinner and in better shape. And there will always be someone with a beer gut or one with giggly fat that totally surrounds the stationary bike seat.

Reading others' works gives us great ideas on how to get our writing to work, or examples of techniques to avoid when the writing doesn't work. Same with the mechanics of writing. But to do a flat-out and overall comparison for ego's sake is just doing the gym-rat thing. Motivation for writing should come from within. Reading the works of others then becomes a tool to shape what comes out of that motivation.

Manix · May 24, 2009

Realistically, I think everyone goes through periods of doubt and confidence--even great writers like Steven King. Perhaps he knew he could still write, even during his moments of depression, but I've got to wonder if he was placing too much expectation on himself to be perfect 24/7?

I like how you titled this thread "Two sides of the coin" because there really are two ways of looking at every opportunity. If I beat myself up about what I'm not, I'll never improve, but if I see the goal out there in front of me and run toward it, at least I'm in the race. Quitters don't even come in "last" place.

Mr Flibble · May 24, 2009

Whether it's good or bad I opt for C ( when I'm not reading as a reader that is)

How did they do this? How did they lose me / engross me in the story. What was it that did / didn't work for me? Why? How?

How can I do that ( or avoid doing that) in my own writing?

ChaosTitan · May 24, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
Motivation for writing should come from within. Reading the works of others then becomes a tool to shape what comes out of that motivation.

This.

The only external motivation I may find in other books comes in the form of "I can't find any books about X. Hmmmm....."

The Lonely One · May 24, 2009

I like bad books as motivation, or bad short stories rather because let's face it, who wants to spend the time to read a whole book that's bad?

KTC · May 24, 2009

I just read for the enjoyment of reading. I don't compare my work to published work. If I love a book, I read it to the end. If I cringe too much, I stop reading. I don't think about myself as a writer when I am a reader. I enjoy reading too much to put myself into the equation.

vrabinec · May 24, 2009

For me it's A,B,A,B

I get a measure of all. Thing is, after you're read enough stuff that sucks, you know you're good enough to get published some day, and then that boost you get loses its potency. Once that happens, the only stuff I enjoy reading is the stuff that makes me go, "Wow." I learn from it, I enjoy it, and I aspire to reach those heights.

Cassiopeia · May 24, 2009

I read for the sake of reading. When I first joined AW I got caught up in evaluating everything I read. I.stopped.reading.

I.stopped.writing.

Then I started to write a bit and then I stopped.

Recently in reading again this last year and giving up on evaluating the books I read, I came to enjoy reading again.

I'm writing again. I've taken enough writing and critical theory classes in the last three years that there's absolutely no reason for me to read for the purpose of deciding if I'm better or worse than they are. The only contest I'm engaged in is to see if I can do better with my own work. Again, that will only happen if I write.

I don't want to write like anyone else. I just want my own voice to ring in the mind of my readers and for them to find that so compelling they can't put the book down. That will only happen if I'm writing.

scarletpeaches · May 24, 2009

Cassiopeia said:
I read for the sake of reading. When I first joined AW I got caught up in evaluating everything I read. I.stopped.reading.

I.stopped.writing.

Then I started to write a bit and then I stopped.

Recently in reading again this last year and giving up on evaluating the books I read, I came to enjoy reading again.

I'm writing again. I've taken enough writing and critical theory classes in the last three years that there's absolutely no reason for me to read for the purpose of deciding if I'm better or worse than they are. The only contest I'm engaged in is to see if I can do better with my own work. Again, that will only happen if I write.

I don't want to write like anyone else. I just want my own voice to ring in the mind of my readers and for them to find that so compelling they can't put the book down. That will only happen if I'm writing.

QFT. Apart from the fact I enjoy analysing as I read (but that's just the way my brain works), I agree with all of this. Especially the bolded parts.

I've said before there's no reason why I can't better the writers I admire if I apply myself but I recognise I can only do my own personal best at any given point in my life. Sure, I strive to do better, but I don't want to be the second [insert whatever author here]. I want to be the first me!

I still think we can learn from reading both good and bad books. But there comes a point where you need to just get on with writing your own.

Speaking of which...

ad_lucem · May 24, 2009

It depends on the day.

Good books tend to inspire me, but there are always those moments when I say, "Okay, that's it. No hope for me. It's all been written and written better than I can ever write."

Bad books usually don't inspire me. I usually get this image in my head that the publishing industry is horribly nepotistic. Then I either lament the lack of good writing or my lack of connected relatives... Either way, it makes for a depressing day.

ORION · May 24, 2009

I like to think there are no 'good' or 'bad' books...just ones that resonate with different readers. My high school students loved certain books that were rife with errors but something about the story really spoke to them and for that (as a teacher) I was grateful.
Being published is dependent on more than just great writing and a great story...it's luck, serendipity, perseverance. As the other posters have said- I learn from what does and doesn't resonate with me...
Was the author rushed to put a book out quickly? Were they trying something new? Was I not the intended audience?
All these have an affect. I think it's fascinating how one person's trashy literature is another's all time favorite book.
One thing I don't do is get into a competitive mind set and say, "Gee, I could do better than that..." it's really counter productive... say instead that there is room for much in literature and therefore there is room for me as well...

Cassiopeia · May 24, 2009

I went on a binge about a year ago now with reading book after book by Phillipa Gregory. I love a good historical novel. When I was done reading four books, I stopped for a bit. I pondered what it was about her writing that gave me such pleasure.

The last book of hers I bought just sits half read on the shelf and I've left it there for six months. The reason? The topic wasn't as appealing to me. There's just as much to be said about choosing a topic your readers can engage in than the mechanics of it. In fact, I'd say that's more likely to keep me reading no matter the quality of the writing.

Yes, I love Angels and Demons. Don't ask me if it's crappy writing. I tried to do a line by line critique of the book and I got bored trying. I just love the story.

So really the point is, perhaps our focus should be on the quality of the story more than anything else.

ad_lucem · May 24, 2009

ORION said:
I like to think there are no 'good' or 'bad' books...just ones that resonate with different readers. My high school students loved certain books that were rife with errors but something about the story really spoke to them and for that (as a teacher) I was grateful.
Being published is dependent on more than just great writing and a great story...it's luck, serendipity, perseverance. As the other posters have said- I learn from what does and doesn't resonate with me...
Was the author rushed to put a book out quickly? Were they trying something new? Was I not the intended audience?
All these have an affect. I think it's fascinating how one person's trashy literature is another's all time favorite book.
One thing I don't do is get into a competitive mind set and say, "Gee, I could do better than that..." it's really counter productive... say instead that there is room for much in literature and therefore there is room for me as well...

Congrats on being published

!!

It's true, there's no accounting for taste. (By the way, I know the industry isn't nepotistic, that's just want the devil on my shoulder says when I'm having a bad day and I'm willing listen to him.)

There are books I've loved and books I hated, but I imagine someone else bought and loved them. (I hated the Da Vinci Code AND The Road...but I loved Slaughterhouse Five.)

I sometimes listen to bluegrass and/or punk songs--not everyone's cup'o'chai latte. But neither is good or bad music--just different.

"luck, serendipity, perseverance"...nailed it. Exactly.

Someone (can't remember who because I suck at attributing quotes correctly) once said that a professional is just an amateur that didn't give up.

I agree.

Ken Schneider · May 24, 2009

I've learned not to question myself. I write it. I send it out. I write another ms.

peachiemkey · May 24, 2009

Really great comments everyone. Of course, there is always that C option - look at the work and figure out what was good or bad about it. I'll be sure to keep that in mind for next time.

ccarver30 · May 24, 2009

It's a bit of both for me. When I go to the grocery store and see all the paperbacks, it makes me sad because I am not up there (YET!). But then when I read something crappy, I know that even if mine IS crap, I COULD get published too!

Cassiopeia · May 24, 2009

I don't think luck has much to do with any thing let alone writing. I think humans like the concept of luck because it gives them a reason to believe that luck is the why someone else got published and they didn't. The idea of luck being used as a reason merely shows just how bitter we can be about our own inability to succeed.

It's an old argument and frankly, I think people use it to avoid accountability. The only things I believe in are hard work and perseverance. If I'm ever going to succeed at writing and becoming a published author, I'm going to have to knuckle down and just do it. I have to learn everything there is about what it takes to succeed.

That's true with anything we endeavor to do. Writing is no different.

Motivation - two sides of the coin

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