Critique groups?

[Carlene]

I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

[pixiejuice]

That's a good question, Carlene. I'd also like to know. More specifically, maybe, how many published working authors regularly use a critique group?

Or would you generally just use a few good beta readers once the novel is pretty close to finished?

[Christine N.]

I used Critters for my first novel. I got lucky, and the person who took on the whole book really helped me out. The people who looked at individual chapters also gave good advice.

For the WIP that is nearly done.. I picked two people whos opinions and background I trust. They each have their own styles of crit, and both are useful. I know it's useful information when I look at it and go... of course, why didn't I think of that? LOL

Crits can be good or bad. Most of the time you will know the difference. If one person tells you something, you take it with a grain of salt. If three people tell you the same thing (ie -this character seems flat) then you probably need to think about what they are telling you and revisit that part of the ms.

At this point, I don't have time to wait for crit groups to get around to my work. I have two books on the burner, one almost ready, and I want to sub it soon. If you've got the time, I say they're useful, as long as you can weed out good crits from bad.

[azbikergirl]

Do you still get helpful feedback?

[LloydBrown]

I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

I was part of a writing circle for a few months, and most of the experience was very valuable. I found it far more positive than negative. I had to stop when my business demanded too much of my time. Now that I've sold the business, I'm starting to think about who I might like to work with.

Previously, the group was composed of people that met online, through AOL. Now, I'd want to make it a group of people I know personally and plan for longer-term participation from each member. Being friends first makes criticism easier to take, I find.

[Billie_Joe00]

I just wanted to point out, that I have the same name as you, and when I read the first reply mentioning the name Carlene, I thought, 'What? I didn't write this!' Amazingly dumb as it sounds but that is what I thought. It's probably because not many people have this name.

And about the question, if it helps you then I don't see why you should stop.

[Aconite]

I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything.

Maybe you need to find a critique group more suited to your current level.

[Jaoman]

I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending.

If you wonder whether your group is hindering the process than, obviously, staying with the group is not in you best interest.

Personally, I don't value the skill of the group so much as their honestly and thoroughness. Whenever a person wants to make a critique, there's usually a reason for it. That reason is rarely expressed understandably, and usually hides behind several levels of psychology and prosaic floundering, but that doesn't change the underline feeling behind it.

[Christine N.]

I've also changed who I give work to. With my two current readers, one is a published writer, although not in my genre, who is also working on his first children's book. He pointed out that I needed to rearrange the scenes in the first three chapters to punch it up. He was so right.
We trade manuscripts. The other is a woman taking a graduate course in Editing Popular Fiction. She enjoys the practice, and I get her services before she starts charging an arm and a leg for them.

[SRHowen]

Depends on the group. The one I run has a number of people who have been published, others represented by agents, or those who work in publishing. We don't just crit, we offer a personal type of companion ship and friendship than a large group like AW can't. We share sob stories and chat for the sake of chatting--we suport each other.

I think it's a more grown up group than say critters--a small circle of writers to suport each other.

While it is not for everyone and I won't tolerate nasty stuff from anyone, maybe you need more than a crit group--a more grown up group. There does come a time when a crit group--if you have grown beyond them, is no longer useful.

I'd look for a semi-pro or pro group. Sorry, mines full right now.

Shawn

[SheliaRudesill]

I was in a critique group while I wrote my first novel and learned so much about writing. The first thing I learned was to have broad shoulders and accept constructive criticism.

Since my first novel was published, my husband and a couple writing buddies bounce our work off each other. It's amazing what is absolutely clear to me can be so confusing to others. So, from that standpoint, I need others to keep me on the right track.

I've learned that editors miss things and I don't want my novels to be published with mistakes, so I try hard to get it right before it goes to an editor or publisher.

[Kiva Wolfe]

Carlene:

Thanks for starting this thread. It's such an interesting subject. I am mixed about critique groups. I whole-heartedly support them, but I prefer the online variety if there are written guidelines about downloading and general critiquing, and if it has a post and critique schedule to focus everyone. The beauty of an online group is that you can do it in the comfort of your home and any time you have a free moment to comment on someone else's work. I became so tuned into them, that I started one through Yahoo for my local chapter of Sisters in Crime, replete with private folders, message board, and a chat room. It still has the same original three members, and while new ones have joined, most don't stick around more than a few months.

I've tried the critiquing circles, but find them more time-consuming. Sometimes tempers flare, people invariably quit, and it's hard to attract new members who can commit to a regular schedule. I feel I benefit most from author mentoring. I write adult suspense-adventure, and was fortunate to be tutored by an author of over 60 YA mystery/horror books. It turned out to be a fantastic match and I credit her with keeping me on track.

[Ronda]

When I first joined the critique group, it was great for me because I hadn't written much in ages. I found it motivating. We're a small group of 5-6 members, and we take home up to 10 pgs of each person's work each week.

Now I'm the most prolific - and most published - of the group. I find one person's comments less useful because she hardly reads, so she has trouble with less common language. One is a retired English teacher who seems more worried about commas than content. That's annoying. I know how to structure a sentence. One person's feedback is especially valuable, and another's is generally useful. Nobody in the group writes my genre (fantasy). So now it's a mixed bag, but I'd say for now it's still valuable. I learn a lot from reading the others' submissions - both what to do to make work good and what to avoid.

When it stops being useful, stop going. :D
Warmly,
Ronda

[jemacba]

i've just signed a contract for my first novel and am interested in starting a small critique group of 3-4 people at first... i write suspense... if there's anyone interested, pls drop me a line

[dangerousbill]

I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

My experience with crit groups:

1. Most of what I know of writing, I learned in crit groups.

2. Choose a group carefully. Some are poisonously negative, some are flower children who say only positive things and will never admit to your weak spots.

3. Critiquing is a learned art, different from writing. A good writer still has to learn how to crit. Even so, the two arts reinforce one another.

4. Try to choose a group where most of the members are a little bit better than you are.

5. Crit groups hide out in the damndest places.

6. Don't take any long work to a crit group until the first draft is complete.

[VoireyLinger]

Maybe you need to find a critique group more suited to your current level.

This.

A crit from someone who is at a lower level than you, skillwise, is unlikely to help you move forward. You might need to either find a more advanced group or some more advanced individuals for crits.

[CaroGirl]

Well, this thread is from 2005 but there seems to be renewed interest, so I'll reply.

I've been with my crit group for almost 6 years. The membership has come and gone but we have some solid, active members right now. I have enough experience (now) that I know when advice is good for my book and when it isn't. Sometimes I still get good feedback from my group. The main reason I continue to run this group is the motivation. It's great to know someone will read the chapter I'm writing and it's incentive to not only get it written but to write it the best I can.

I still like my group. It's also nice to get together with like-minded people once a month and talk about writing.

[hBar2010]

For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

[CaroGirl]

For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

I can tell you my story. I took a creative writing class through my local community college. I clicked with a few of the other writers in the class and we decided to try forming a critique group. Only one of the other original members is still active, but, through friends and acquaintances joining, we've managed to keep the group going despite births, marriages and moves.

[dangerousbill]

For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

For live groups, as opposed to online, ask at local bookshops, libraries and community colleges. The best time to form a crit group is during a creative writing course or a writers' workshop or conference. I joined my live crit group in 2004, but it has existed since 1996.

One of my online groups started by tuning in to a general writing site like this one, finding people of similar interests and maturity of writing, and inviting them to form a group. This particular group started off with three people, expanded to seven, and slowly imploded over a three year period. Even so, it was very productive for a time. Online groups tend to be less stable and long lasting than in-person groups, I think.

Meetup.com is also a way of finding or organizing groups for any purpose, including writing critiques.

[Jamesaritchie]

I say skip them. I've seen nine writers harmed by critique groups for each I've seen helped. The sad thing is that the ones harmed the most are almost always the same ones who claim they've been helped tremendously, even though they're no closer to being a selling writer than they were before they ever went to the group.

This actually makes sense, I guess. Those who know they've been harmed usually get out fast. It's those who are being harmed but think they're being helped that stay and stay and stay, but seldom get anywhere with their writing. Even when they do manage a sale here and there, they never rise to the top.

[KTC]

Do you still get helpful feedback?

This.

I started a critique group in my home about 6-7 years ago. Can't remember now. We met once a month...there were 8 of us. We would critique 10 pages from half the members at each meeting, rotating.

It was GREAT! I dropped out about a year ago because of time constraints, but the group is still going strong. The members have great relationships...we trust each other...we're truthful and fair. I would still be going if I had the time. The members of that group helped me to make my debut novel better. I had one character in the second chapter...and she never appeared again. Seven people told me I had to have her presence throughout the novel. I listened to them...and I LOVE this character. I'm so happy to have had their feedback.

If you are getting feedback that is helping you, stay with the group.

If you have the time-and enjoy the meetings-continue to go, even if you don't feel you're getting the help you did in the beginning. I find that a lot of what goes on in a great critique group--the underlying stuff that goes on--is wonderful support that you can't find elsewhere.

I miss the great feedback, but what I have found that I miss even more is that one night once a month where the 8 of us got together and became a community of one.

It's your call. You have to decide if you still want to get what you're getting from it...great feedback or not.

[Susan Littlefield]

I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

I was in a critique group for a few years recently, and it was one I helped start through my writers club. I enjoyed it, and it was beneficial in that I learned my writing strengths and weaknesses, as well as how to critique other people's work. I outgrew the group when I realized I had learned what I need to learn there as far as writing and the give/take of critique partners. I left the group because I needed to concentrate 100% on my own writing and getting it ready for publication.

I cannot say enough how blessed I feel to have been part of such a group. However, a person needs to decide for themselves. Some writers never let anyone prior to the agent and/or publisher they submit to read their work, and other people love their critique groups. No way is right or wrong.

PS- didn't realize this was such an old thread. Excellent it has been pushed to the top again.

[daydreameriam1]

This is strange. I posted several replies to this and now they are gone. :/ ?? I didn't think i said anything wrong.

[Flicka]

They may have been lost in the "July 11-12 Outage"

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2&a=189

[Kitty Pryde]

Hey, while we're playing in this old thread, does anybody have a good list/link to some helpful "ground rules" for critting? To lead to productivity and happy feelings and better writing!

I joined a new critique group and some of us have no experience. I'm thick-skinned from all the brutalizing from my AWer friends (thanks doods), but I don't have any experience critting IRL. I don't think we are making the best use of our time, and a few folks aren't sure what to say, and whatnot. Advice? I love the "SYW Starbucks" where we can clarify how harsh we want our crit to be and it seems like something similar might help out.

[Maryn]

I might. Let me check my hard drive. I'll post 'em if I have them. I know when we started our group in 1992, we had such a list, but I don't know if I saved it.

Maryn, who'll go look now

[Maryn]

Kitty, I found two documents, both dating to 1992 and both long. Get yourself a beverage and settle in for a long read. I'll put them in two posts.

CRITIQUE GROUP GUIDELINES

A group formed for the purpose of writing critiques must agree unanimously on its standards and its goals. Our group in [my city] began in 1992 and follows these guidelines faithfully (mostly) and successfully (always).

THE MANUSCRIPT: DISTRIBUTION AND FORMAT

The writer provides a copy of the manuscript (ms.) to each reader at the writer’s expense. We distribute mss. at the conclusion of a critique meeting. The writer is responsible for mailing or delivering the ms. to anyone not in attendance. We do not read the ms. aloud to the group at any point, since a skilled reader can make a ms. better than it is.

The ms. is in submission format as per Writer’s Digest (or other agreed-upon reference). It may be typewritten, an original letter-quality printout, or a high-quality photocopy. The story appears on one side of the page. Pages are numbered. The ms. is double spaced. Any easily-read font, at least twelve-point in size, is good; smaller than twelve-point is unacceptable. Margins are at least 1 inch, preferably 1.5 inches (about 5 cm.) all around. Paragraphs are indented 5 spaces, and no additional lines are skipped between paragraphs. The ms. should be as perfect as possible: spelling, grammar and punctuation checked, few or no corrections written in, etc.

Submissions of 25 pp. or less are preferred. (That’s more than 6,000 words, on the average.) The writer submits no more than 50 pages of a lengthy ms. at one time without prior agreement. When submitting sections of a book, the writer also provides a single-spaced one-page summary of the story so far.

A group may agree to “outlaw” certain language and content (or to provide written warning on p. 1 for those offended by explicit violence, sex, or language), to refuse mss. outside a specified genre (i.e., cross-genre or poetry), or to reject mss. which do not adhere to submission format guidelines (i.e., twenty-point type with small margins). Such matters should be agreed upon before a questionable ms. is presented for critique. Our group, for instance, is dedicated to mystery and suspense, but at times critiques a member’s writing in another genre--but only if approved in advance, and anyone can opt out.

We do not have a schedule or due dates for a particular person to present stories for critique. Usually one of us has something.

WRITING THE CRITIQUE

Critiques are likely to be as individual as the manuscripts themselves. However, a few guidelines, agreed upon by writer and critic, are in order. Bear in mind that the lone goal of critique is to assist the writer in improving the work. Personal feelings between writer and critic must not enter the critique process. Undeserved praise or disparagement serve no purpose.

Criticism is to be constructive, never destructive or personal. Be honest, truthful--and tactful. Bear in mind that presenting one’s work for criticism is like presenting one’s self. The Golden Rule applies.

The critic’s first task is a thorough reading of the ms. On a second reading s/he may pencil in corrections, comments, questions, and/or remarks. This marked ms. is signed by the critic on p. 1 and returned to the writer along with a written critique 1 - 3 pp. long. Only the critique is read aloud at the meeting.

[deleted section--covered in the other post better.]

Many writers welcome suggestions for everything from titles to plot variations. Others resent the critic meddling with the basics of the story. The critic has to keep still when corrections and suggestions are ignored in the rewrite. The manuscript is the writer’s and must meet only the writer’s standards.

DELIVERING THE CRITIQUE

The writer is obliged to listen to the written critique as the critic reads it aloud to the group. S/He may not interrupt to explain or defend.

At the conclusion of the critiques, s/he should acknowledge the value of the critiques and the time and effort which produced them, regardless of her opinion of their content.

The writer receives both marked mss. and written critiques.

“BAD” CRITIQUES

Be a professional. The writer might as well develop the thick skin needed to weather the rejections and bad reviews that are part of the business of writing.

The most painful critiques fall into two categories. First are those which criticize the writer rather than the writing. (“You’ve written a story which seems pointless and boring.”) Those who produce this sort of critique do not know how to critique properly. (Better might be “This story’s point is not clear to the reader,” or “The story moves too slowly for my liking--see sections marked ‘pacing’ and suggestions for shortening/tightening/deletion.”) Consider, too, that such harsh judgment might be the result of a bad day, a hasty read-through and critique, the reader just not “getting it,” or even envy.

The critiques which seem the most painful are those which are negative--and correct. It may be a struggle to acknowledge the value of such a critique, and to be open to it, but for the work to improve, the writer must at least consider its points. It may help to put away both the work and the critiques for several weeks, returning to it with greater objectivity.

The writer should not make excuses, explain or defend the writing; it must stand on its own. Recipients of highly negative critique must be scrupulously fair when the time comes to critique this person’s work. Be especially careful to use specific examples/quotes to back up anything negative about his/her ms.

If one critic is unable or unwilling to critique the work instead of the writer, it is the writer’s option to speak with him or her privately (and calmly) or the group’s option to exclude him/her from the critique process. In a democratic group, this may be difficult. A large critique group may wish to appoint temporary leaders to whom fall such confrontational tasks as well as routine tasks such as scheduling meetings. Some groups may confront a poor critic en masse. Other groups dodge the bullet and pretend to disband, reconvening without the offending member.

Remember that each critique, whether it is valid or cruel, was something which the writer asked for, and on which the giver spent his or her time. If the writer disagrees with a critique, s/he can ignore its suggestions. If it criticizes the writer rather than the writing, throw it away.

RUNNING THE CRITIQUE GROUP

A leaderless group may be fortunate enough to have one or more members who handle its business reliably. They provide free updated mailing/phone/e-mail lists of members, make calls when a scheduled meeting is canceled or moved, reserve the meeting place as required, and see that the bill for meeting space or food and drink is paid. A small group runs itself with one such member or several others each assuming a single task.

It's wise to have a go-to person everyone contacts, or who contacts everyone, when there is a chance a meeting might be canceled due to weather or too few people in attendance.

As group members become friends, it's way too easy to slip into a socializing group rather than a writing group. Set a time at which all members are to arrive (say, 7:00) and a time at which the business purpose of the meeting begins (7:15 or whatever). Those who want to do more catching up can chat when it's over.

The group should discuss whether and under what conditions it will accept additional members before anyone asks to join it. Some groups are completely open and a few are open to people who meet certain qualifications such as membership in an organization or enrollment in a college writing course. The more selective groups ask would-be newcomers to submit a short writing sample and to attend a meeting. They may exclude those whose basic writing skills are far below the group’s. Potential members may find that they are not yet confident enough of themselves as writers or critics to participate in a critique group, once they’ve seen one in action.

Maryn, who could write this shorter now

[Maryn]

Second post on critique groups. This is more a how-to-critique post than a how-to-work-your-critique-group post.

How to Critique Fiction

Purpose vs. Personalities

Author and critic(s) must agree they share a single goal: to aid and guide the author in improving his or her manuscript (ms) until it's good enough for a single purpose. Most often, it's submission to paying markets, but if a group's members all agree that self-pubbing, or self-discovery, etc. is their goal, that's fine.

To achieve this goal, neither author nor critic can allow personalities or feelings to interfere with objectivity. The critic’s fondness or admiration (or disgusted disdain) for the author can not enter into the critique process, or the critique is utterly worthless and wastes both author’s and critic’s time.

Undeserved praise or disparagement don’t help the author build on strengths or shore up weaknesses.

Criticism has to be constructive, never destructive or personal. Be honest, truthful—and tactful. Bear in mind that presenting your work for criticism is like presenting yourself. The Golden Rule applies.

Anonymous manuscripts with no indication of authorship can preserve the integrity of critique, especially in a group with shy members or personality clashes.

Equally anonymous critiques may seem to free a timid critic to say what s/he thinks without fear of reprisal, but more often seem to invite unduly harsh judgment.

In the end, the writing has to stand on its own merits. The critic may consider only the writing. Period.

How Do I Start?

The critic’s first task is a thorough reading of the ms—without a pencil. Only on a second reading can s/he pencil in corrections, comments, questions, and/or remarks. This marked ms is signed by the critic on p. 1 and returned to the writer. (Note that having the story read aloud, by the author or someone else, is counter-productive. A good reader elevates poor work, and a poor reader may lower its apparent quality.)

Novice writers may not be aware of what aspects they handle well. A good critic doesn’t note only flaws but strengths, too. Among the elements the critic might find praiseworthy are:

Is the title good--catchy, memorable, a clever tie-in with the story’s tone, content, characters, or ending (without giving it away), a decent play on words, a mood-setter?

Do the opening lines or paragraphs (the “hook”) command your attention, making you want to know more?

Proper format for submission? Few/no spelling or grammatical errors?
Is the setting interesting or clearly described? As you read, do you feel that you are in/at the chosen place and time?

Are the characters easy to visualize, names well-chosen, backgrounds smoothly presented? Do they seem real to you? Do you care what happens to them, wishing them good (or bad) fortune?

Is the POV (point of view) consistent, or its changes interesting and purposeful?

Are the motives for characters’ actions clear?

Are the plot elements presented in the best order? Does every scene/segment advance the story?

Does the author write smoothly? Is the style unique? Easy to read? Humorous? Richly descriptive? Does s/he show skill at handling transitions or flashbacks or characters’ thoughts?

Is the balance between dialogue and exposition satisfying?

Does dialogue seem particularly real?

Does the exposition engage all five senses and succeed at showing vs. telling?

Are there places where the author has excelled at making a character seem real, presenting a plot element, or creating tension? How is the pacing? Mood? Ending?

Are there word choices or turns of phrase which please or amuse? Moments when you were moved to smile, laugh, or feel pity or sorrow? Times when you could “see” or “hear” a character as if you were there?

Is the ending both unexpected and satisfying?

During the second reading, the critic will also mark elements which need improvement.

Conclude with brief encouragement, stressing a few of the best elements, urging the author to rewrite, and offering to critique the revised work if possible.

What if it’s bad?

Every critic will see a horrific, inept ms on occasion. Nevertheless, it’s the critic’s duty to find and note praiseworthy elements—and yes, every ms has them.

Whether the ms is awful or all right, make sure you are tactful as you point out errors. Use specific examples from the text. For instance, if the plot was predictable, show the writer precisely where and how s/he gave away the ending. (“This long description of the knife told me it was more important than the other stuff on the table.”) If characters seemed unrealistic, or if there’s no reason for them to behave as they do, mark the words or actions that create the problem. Write “What?” next to the line you didn’t understand (underline or circle it if it’s not obvious), “Check this” next to a factual misstatement, or “Slow pace—shorten?” where the story drags.

A written critique or note at the end of the ms is the appropriate place to consider the “big picture” issues such as plot, tone, voice, pacing, style, or tension. This is by far the most difficult aspect of criticism. A thorough critic may want to set the ms aside to consider these items before addressing them in critique.

Critics have their own strengths and weaknesses, of course. A group of critics is likely to include a grammar-and-punctuation stickler, a nit picker on the alert for detail errors or ambiguities, a theme person who thinks it’s obvious that the story isn’t about Jared threatening the bully with a knife but about his need for his brother’s approval (sometimes these people surprise the author!), a wizard at identifying unnecessary elements and mercilessly deleting them, a creative thinker who sees a way around a problem (“What if you have a letter opener next to the mail on the table instead of the knife?”), etc. The author will benefit most from numerous critiques, and if s/he’s smart, will focus on any poor writing element noted by more than one critic.

What if I get a really bad critique?

The most painful critiques fall into two categories. First are those which criticize the writer rather than the writing. (“You’ve written a story which seems pointless and boring.”) Those who produce this sort of critique do not know how to critique properly. (Better might be “This story’s point is not clear,” or “The story moves too slowly--see sections marked ‘pacing’ and suggestions for shortening/tightening/deletion.”)

Consider, too, that harsh judgment might be the result of a bad day, a hasty read-through and critique, the critic just not “getting it,” or even envy.

The critiques which seem the most painful are those which are negative--and correct. It may be a struggle to acknowledge the value of such a critique, and to be open to it, but for the work to improve, the author must at least consider its points. It may help to put away both the work and the critiques for a while, returning to it with greater objectivity.

Recipients of highly negative critique must be scrupulously fair when the time comes to critique this person’s work. Be especially careful to use specific examples/quotes to back up anything negative about his/her ms.

Remember that each critique, whether it is valid or cruel, was something which the author asked for, and on which the critic spent his or her time. If the author disagrees with a critique, s/he can ignore its suggestions. If it criticizes the author rather than the writing, throw it away and forget about it.

Maryn, done pontificating for now (whew, huh?)

[jeffo20]

Great stuff, Maryn, thanks.

[Maryn]

Thanks. I resisted the huge temptation to write it shorter, tighter, and better instead of slapping it up there. I was pleased to realize that I'd improved enough to see places to trim.

Maryn, who's always been wordy

[Mutive]

This is strange. I posted several replies to this and now they are gone. :/ ?? I didn't think i said anything wrong.

I think the board just borked. ;) I went from having like 100 comments to...26. ;)

[The Unseen Moon]

I've never been in a critique group.

[Maryn]

Mutive, AW had a problem and we all lost posts, rep points, and whatever else happened to us here since July 5. (I've seen lots of people annoyed that their brilliance has disappeared, others relieved they're no longer enmeshed in no-win arguments.)

If you need your post count bounced up past 50 in order to post your work for critique at Share Your Work, contact the site owner Macallister, and she'll take care of it. She's done this for many already.

Otherwise, soldier on!

Unseen Moon, is there a reason you haven't been in a critique group, or is it just that there hasn't been one handy for whatever it is you write? My first one came out of a class we all took, but the other one I'm in, I just started this summer. If you want one, all you need to do is find two other writers in your genre who want one, too. It was that easy!

Maryn, big on exclamation points today!

[Mutive]

If you need your post count bounced up past 50 in order to post your work for critique at Share Your Work, contact the site owner Macallister, and she'll take care of it. She's done this for many already.

Otherwise, soldier on!



Eh, I don't (and don't particularly care). I'm just like...awww...my number had finally gotten to triple digits. But it will be back soon enough. Bwah hah hah. ^_^

That is kind of the mods to move the count up for people who lost a lot of points, though. ;)

[The Unseen Moon]

Unseen Moon, is there a reason you haven't been in a critique group, or is it just that there hasn't been one handy for whatever it is you write?

Both, actually. And not really for what I write, but there's never been one handy because of where I lived.

[Broadswordbabe]

I'm pretty convinced my crit group has made a major difference. We work by sending out manuscripts at least two weeks beforehand, so people have time to read and crit, then having an IRL meeting to read out the crits and have follow-up discussion. We do try and make it clear to new members that we're all about aiming for pro publication. We're known for being tough (though people try to be constructive, and make helpful suggestions, we don't pull punches) and for us, it's worked. In the past few years a bunch of us -including me :) - have got agented, got deals, etc. I know some of the members would probably have got there eventually with or without the group, but I know that in my case it has been hugely beneficial. And I do think being in a tough group can help thicken the skin for all those rejections, poor reviews, etc. which are an inevitable part of the writing life.

[juniper]

I've been in a group for about 18 months and debating whether to stay. At this point, I'm just going for companionship (I'm otherwise pretty much a loner) and because a couple of the members have said they really value my critique notes and appreciate my participation.

The group is run by a community college and is a mix of memoir, fiction, essays and poetry. Wildly varying degrees of proficiency, from barely readable to very good.

I think I'd rather be in a group that writes only fiction. Another group member would also prefer that, and we're thinking about starting one up if we can't find one.

I found this group by accident and don't really know how to find another one. I've heard some people suggest meetup.com but that hasn't yielded results for me.

[Heka]

I was reluctant to join a critique group at first. I'm not much of a "joiner," and I'd heard horror stories about groups that were either absolutely toxic or else so kind and gentle that they ended up being rather pointless.

Then a friend convinced me to try out a local critique group, and that turned out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made. I was lucky enough to find a group that strikes a balance between cheerleading and criticism. Of course I don't always agree with everyone's comments, but I know I'm a better writer because of their input.

One of the things that I like best about our group is that we have a diverse pool of members. Some have been published, while others are just starting out. Some aren't even writers at all, just enthusiastic readers. I really enjoy having my work critiqued from so many different perspectives.