Critique groups?

Carlene · Jun 15, 2005

I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

pixiejuice · Jun 15, 2005

That's a good question, Carlene. I'd also like to know. More specifically, maybe, how many published working authors regularly use a critique group?

Or would you generally just use a few good beta readers once the novel is pretty close to finished?

Christine N. · Jun 15, 2005

I used Critters for my first novel. I got lucky, and the person who took on the whole book really helped me out. The people who looked at individual chapters also gave good advice.

For the WIP that is nearly done.. I picked two people whos opinions and background I trust. They each have their own styles of crit, and both are useful. I know it's useful information when I look at it and go... of course, why didn't I think of that? LOL

Crits can be good or bad. Most of the time you will know the difference. If one person tells you something, you take it with a grain of salt. If three people tell you the same thing (ie -this character seems flat) then you probably need to think about what they are telling you and revisit that part of the ms.

At this point, I don't have time to wait for crit groups to get around to my work. I have two books on the burner, one almost ready, and I want to sub it soon. If you've got the time, I say they're useful, as long as you can weed out good crits from bad.

azbikergirl · Jun 15, 2005

Do you still get helpful feedback?

LloydBrown · Jun 15, 2005

Writing circle

Carlene said:
I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

I was part of a writing circle for a few months, and most of the experience was very valuable. I found it far more positive than negative. I had to stop when my business demanded too much of my time. Now that I've sold the business, I'm starting to think about who I might like to work with.

Previously, the group was composed of people that met online, through AOL. Now, I'd want to make it a group of people I know personally and plan for longer-term participation from each member. Being friends first makes criticism easier to take, I find.

Billie_Joe00 · Jun 15, 2005

I just wanted to point out, that I have the same name as you, and when I read the first reply mentioning the name Carlene, I thought, 'What? I didn't write this!' Amazingly dumb as it sounds but that is what I thought. It's probably because not many people have this name.

And about the question, if it helps you then I don't see why you should stop.

Aconite · Jun 15, 2005

Carlene said:
I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything.

Maybe you need to find a critique group more suited to your current level.

Jaoman · Jun 15, 2005

Carlene said:
I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending.

If you wonder whether your group is hindering the process than, obviously, staying with the group is not in you best interest.

Personally, I don't value the skill of the group so much as their honestly and thoroughness. Whenever a person wants to make a critique, there's usually a reason for it. That reason is rarely expressed understandably, and usually hides behind several levels of psychology and prosaic floundering, but that doesn't change the underline feeling behind it.

Christine N. · Jun 15, 2005

I've also changed who I give work to. With my two current readers, one is a published writer, although not in my genre, who is also working on his first children's book. He pointed out that I needed to rearrange the scenes in the first three chapters to punch it up. He was so right.
We trade manuscripts. The other is a woman taking a graduate course in Editing Popular Fiction. She enjoys the practice, and I get her services before she starts charging an arm and a leg for them.

SRHowen · Jun 15, 2005

Depends on the group. The one I run has a number of people who have been published, others represented by agents, or those who work in publishing. We don't just crit, we offer a personal type of companion ship and friendship than a large group like AW can't. We share sob stories and chat for the sake of chatting--we suport each other.

I think it's a more grown up group than say critters--a small circle of writers to suport each other.

While it is not for everyone and I won't tolerate nasty stuff from anyone, maybe you need more than a crit group--a more grown up group. There does come a time when a crit group--if you have grown beyond them, is no longer useful.

I'd look for a semi-pro or pro group. Sorry, mines full right now.

Shawn

SheliaRudesill · Jun 15, 2005

Critiques

I was in a critique group while I wrote my first novel and learned so much about writing. The first thing I learned was to have broad shoulders and accept constructive criticism.

Since my first novel was published, my husband and a couple writing buddies bounce our work off each other. It's amazing what is absolutely clear to me can be so confusing to others. So, from that standpoint, I need others to keep me on the right track.

I've learned that editors miss things and I don't want my novels to be published with mistakes, so I try hard to get it right before it goes to an editor or publisher.

Kiva Wolfe · Jun 26, 2005

Carlene:

Thanks for starting this thread. It's such an interesting subject. I am mixed about critique groups. I whole-heartedly support them, but I prefer the online variety if there are written guidelines about downloading and general critiquing, and if it has a post and critique schedule to focus everyone. The beauty of an online group is that you can do it in the comfort of your home and any time you have a free moment to comment on someone else's work. I became so tuned into them, that I started one through Yahoo for my local chapter of Sisters in Crime, replete with private folders, message board, and a chat room. It still has the same original three members, and while new ones have joined, most don't stick around more than a few months.

I've tried the critiquing circles, but find them more time-consuming. Sometimes tempers flare, people invariably quit, and it's hard to attract new members who can commit to a regular schedule. I feel I benefit most from author mentoring. I write adult suspense-adventure, and was fortunate to be tutored by an author of over 60 YA mystery/horror books. It turned out to be a fantastic match and I credit her with keeping me on track.

Ronda · Jun 26, 2005

When I first joined the critique group, it was great for me because I hadn't written much in ages. I found it motivating. We're a small group of 5-6 members, and we take home up to 10 pgs of each person's work each week.

Now I'm the most prolific - and most published - of the group. I find one person's comments less useful because she hardly reads, so she has trouble with less common language. One is a retired English teacher who seems more worried about commas than content. That's annoying. I know how to structure a sentence. One person's feedback is especially valuable, and another's is generally useful. Nobody in the group writes my genre (fantasy). So now it's a mixed bag, but I'd say for now it's still valuable. I learn a lot from reading the others' submissions - both what to do to make work good and what to avoid.

When it stops being useful, stop going.

Warmly,
Ronda

jemacba · Jul 3, 2011

i've just signed a contract for my first novel and am interested in starting a small critique group of 3-4 people at first... i write suspense... if there's anyone interested, pls drop me a line

dangerousbill · Jul 3, 2011

Carlene said:
I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

My experience with crit groups:

1. Most of what I know of writing, I learned in crit groups.

2. Choose a group carefully. Some are poisonously negative, some are flower children who say only positive things and will never admit to your weak spots.

3. Critiquing is a learned art, different from writing. A good writer still has to learn how to crit. Even so, the two arts reinforce one another.

4. Try to choose a group where most of the members are a little bit better than you are.

5. Crit groups hide out in the damndest places.

6. Don't take any long work to a crit group until the first draft is complete.

VoireyLinger · Jul 4, 2011

Aconite said:
Maybe you need to find a critique group more suited to your current level.

This.

A crit from someone who is at a lower level than you, skillwise, is unlikely to help you move forward. You might need to either find a more advanced group or some more advanced individuals for crits.

CaroGirl · Jul 4, 2011

Well, this thread is from 2005 but there seems to be renewed interest, so I'll reply.

I've been with my crit group for almost 6 years. The membership has come and gone but we have some solid, active members right now. I have enough experience (now) that I know when advice is good for my book and when it isn't. Sometimes I still get good feedback from my group. The main reason I continue to run this group is the motivation. It's great to know someone will read the chapter I'm writing and it's incentive to not only get it written but to write it the best I can.

I still like my group. It's also nice to get together with like-minded people once a month and talk about writing.

hBar2010 · Jul 4, 2011

For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

CaroGirl · Jul 4, 2011

hBar2010 said:
For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

I can tell you my story. I took a creative writing class through my local community college. I clicked with a few of the other writers in the class and we decided to try forming a critique group. Only one of the other original members is still active, but, through friends and acquaintances joining, we've managed to keep the group going despite births, marriages and moves.

dangerousbill · Jul 4, 2011

hBar2010 said:
For those of you who participate in irl critique groups: how did you find or organize one? I've been thinking that it might be a good thing to look into, but haven't a clue where to start.

For live groups, as opposed to online, ask at local bookshops, libraries and community colleges. The best time to form a crit group is during a creative writing course or a writers' workshop or conference. I joined my live crit group in 2004, but it has existed since 1996.

One of my online groups started by tuning in to a general writing site like this one, finding people of similar interests and maturity of writing, and inviting them to form a group. This particular group started off with three people, expanded to seven, and slowly imploded over a three year period. Even so, it was very productive for a time. Online groups tend to be less stable and long lasting than in-person groups, I think.

Meetup.com is also a way of finding or organizing groups for any purpose, including writing critiques.

Jamesaritchie · Jul 4, 2011

I say skip them. I've seen nine writers harmed by critique groups for each I've seen helped. The sad thing is that the ones harmed the most are almost always the same ones who claim they've been helped tremendously, even though they're no closer to being a selling writer than they were before they ever went to the group.

This actually makes sense, I guess. Those who know they've been harmed usually get out fast. It's those who are being harmed but think they're being helped that stay and stay and stay, but seldom get anywhere with their writing. Even when they do manage a sale here and there, they never rise to the top.

KTC · Jul 4, 2011

azbikergirl said:
Do you still get helpful feedback?

This.

I started a critique group in my home about 6-7 years ago. Can't remember now. We met once a month...there were 8 of us. We would critique 10 pages from half the members at each meeting, rotating.

It was GREAT! I dropped out about a year ago because of time constraints, but the group is still going strong. The members have great relationships...we trust each other...we're truthful and fair. I would still be going if I had the time. The members of that group helped me to make my debut novel better. I had one character in the second chapter...and she never appeared again. Seven people told me I had to have her presence throughout the novel. I listened to them...and I LOVE this character. I'm so happy to have had their feedback.

If you are getting feedback that is helping you, stay with the group.

If you have the time-and enjoy the meetings-continue to go, even if you don't feel you're getting the help you did in the beginning. I find that a lot of what goes on in a great critique group--the underlying stuff that goes on--is wonderful support that you can't find elsewhere.

I miss the great feedback, but what I have found that I miss even more is that one night once a month where the 8 of us got together and became a community of one.

It's your call. You have to decide if you still want to get what you're getting from it...great feedback or not.

Susan Coffin · Jul 4, 2011

Carlene said:
I've been writing novels for about twelve years and have, most of the time, been in a critique group. I sometimes wonder if it is helping...or hindering. What are your opinions? Time for me to grow up and do it on my own? Or keep attending. I will say that in the groups I've been in, I'm usually the only one who has published anything. Thanks in advance for the input.

I was in a critique group for a few years recently, and it was one I helped start through my writers club. I enjoyed it, and it was beneficial in that I learned my writing strengths and weaknesses, as well as how to critique other people's work. I outgrew the group when I realized I had learned what I need to learn there as far as writing and the give/take of critique partners. I left the group because I needed to concentrate 100% on my own writing and getting it ready for publication.

I cannot say enough how blessed I feel to have been part of such a group. However, a person needs to decide for themselves. Some writers never let anyone prior to the agent and/or publisher they submit to read their work, and other people love their critique groups. No way is right or wrong.

PS- didn't realize this was such an old thread. Excellent it has been pushed to the top again.

daydreameriam1 · Jul 12, 2011

This is strange. I posted several replies to this and now they are gone. :/ ?? I didn't think i said anything wrong.

Flicka · Jul 13, 2011

They may have been lost in the "July 11-12 Outage"

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2&a=189

Critique groups?

Carlene

New kid, be gentle!

pixiejuice

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

azbikergirl

I really do look like this.

LloydBrown

Billie_Joe00

Aconite

Jaoman

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

SheliaRudesill

Kiva Wolfe

Ronda

jemacba

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

VoireyLinger

Angel Wing Fetish

CaroGirl

Living the dream

hBar2010

CaroGirl

Living the dream

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Jamesaritchie

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

daydreameriam1

Flicka

Dull Old Person