What errors ARE okay?

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

So two days ago I received a phone call from an agent saying that they wanted to look at my entire manuscript. I have been so caught up with school and finals that I haven't really had the chance to edit in a week or two. I started freaking out and did my best to edit in the few hours before work and before I sent the disc to the copy shop. Now that the manuscript is sent, I'm catching really small errors such as repetition of the same word in a paragraph, saying a characters name too much instead of using pronouns, etc.

So how does an agent view these errors? Do they disregard them, being that they are easy to fix, and continue along with the story, or do they discourage and agent from finishing the manuscript and make it so they decide to not represent me? I mean, my manuscript is 90,000 words, which is a lot of reading over when it comes to editing, so I'm really hoping the agent will have mercy on me.

scarletpeaches · May 17, 2009

I have one question.

Why did you start subbing before the manuscript was edited?

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

I've edited multiple times, but I can go over a chapter ten times and find things that bother me the eleventh time that I've read through it. Maybe I'm just being a perfectionist...

Manix · May 17, 2009

Congratulations!! :partyguy:

I don't know if I can answer your question, as I always assumed an agent would instantly reject something that showed even a couple errors. Maybe I'm too paranoid, and they're actually a lot more forgiving than that, but I heard that they rarely bother with a new author who has even one or two typos, or extraneous adjectives, etc.

On the other hand, I have heard about people (maybe they were already published and the agent was working with them at that point?) who had entire sections of their manuscript removed, rearranged, etc. Then, there are people whose work is so utterly amazing and awesome--who have a story so unique and incredible that the agent will make allowances for grammatical errors (Story trumps all, I hear)

So I don't know the answer. I guess I'll shut up. Sorry to be of no help to you whatsoever.

dragonkid · May 17, 2009

My advice is to try not to worry too much, Epiphany. If you have already edited it multiple times the errors are probably minimal and your nerves are making them seem worse than they really are. The same thing happened to me when I was subbing to agents, and I ended up with two great offers despite all the little “flaws” I found. Unless there are major problems with grammar and spelling throughout the manuscript, I doubt it will be enough to sway his or her opinion.

ETA: My agent said she found six typos in my manuscript, and then complemented me for how clean it was. So no, I don't think one or two typos will lead to an instant rejection.

Mr Flibble · May 17, 2009

If it's only small stuff, try not to sweat it - that's what the agent / editor edits are all about

In fact many edits fix quite major things.

And reject something for having a couple of typos, or the occasional use of an adjective? In 90k you are almost always going to have a few typos, unless you're Peter Perfect. Heck published books have typos sometimes, and they've had multiple professionals look them over. My editor cleaned up some pronoun / name issues, word echoes etc. That goes with the territory I should think. And then the copy edit caught even more stuff.

Agents don't expect perfection - they expect a damn good story told in an engaging voice.

And even if they do reject, hey, you've learned a good lesson, right?

Good luck.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

Thank you. Yes, I'm so nervous that I feel as though I'm going to throw up every second, especially because the agent called instead of emailing or writing me to request a full manuscript, which I wasn't expecting. I know that my paranoia about my work won't subside until I hear back from her. I'm debating on whether or not to just not open the document of my novel until I here back from her so I don't stress over it. She only asked for a week exclusive, so I have a feeling she won't take very long in making her decision.

dragonkid · May 17, 2009

Maybe you would feel better if you started working on something else? I always try to keep a “backup idea” to work on just to calm my nerves and keep myself from obsessing (which will no doubt come in handy when we sub to publishers). Good luck – remember that even if she passes, there are many more agents out there who might be an even better fit for your manuscript.

Manix · May 17, 2009

Epiphany said:
Thank you. Yes, I'm so nervous that I feel as though I'm going to throw up every second, especially because the agent called instead of emailing or writing me to request a full manuscript, which I wasn't expecting. I know that my paranoia about my work won't subside until I hear back from her. I'm debating on whether or not to just not open the document of my novel until I here back from her so I don't stress over it. She only asked for a week exclusive, so I have a feeling she won't take very long in making her decision.

Wow! That sounds very promising! (Keeping fingers crossed for you) I feel reassured by the other comments here too. They know better than I, so I'd go with their opinions. I've been stressing so much on my manuscript for the past six months that I've gone through it at least seven times with a fine tooth comb, and I'm still editing. I guess maybe I can relax a bit, from what they say.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

I actually should be studying for my finals next week... that's what SHOULD be doing.
And it's the first book in a series, so of course the second one has been making its way out onto a word document this past month.
Thanks again for the advice. I know that there are many agents out there, but I have been querying for only a month and this is my first full manuscript request, so of course I'm going to be a dork about it.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

Manix said:
Wow! That sounds very promising! (Keeping fingers crossed for you) I feel reassured by the other comments here too. They know better than I, so I'd go with their opinions. I've been stressing so much on my manuscript for the past six months that I've gone through it at least seven times with a fine tooth comb, and I'm still editing. I guess maybe I can relax a bit, from what they say.

I understand what you mean. I only wrote short stories before this so I could go over them fifty times in a day if I wanted to and catch anything and everything. It's much harder with a larger work, and every time I catch an error I'm just like... DOH! How did I not see that before?
I'm hoping the agents realize that and have mercy on us poor pathetic writers

Manix · May 17, 2009

You and me, both! I wrote the stupid thing in three months and have been editing it ever since. I'm sure yours is top-notch, if they asked you by phone for the full! That's a very good sign!

dgiharris · May 17, 2009

My opinion (i've yet to get a book published mind you) is that it depends on the nature and severity of the errors.

If page one has an error every other line, then I doubt they get passed page one.

If we are talking minor errors, maybe two or three per page, I don't think its a big deal provided the writing is good.

In my mind there are two types of errors.
Type 1) Errors that are indicative of your abilities.
Type 2) Errors that are not indicative of your abilities, that is, simply an error.

If the writing is good, solid, etc. then any error will be percieved as a Type 2

However, if the writing is not good, then the errors will be percieved as a Type 1 error.

If the magnitude of Type 2 errors are significant, then that presents other problems, namely, attention to detail. And the fact that it will increase the time and effort it will take to get the book up to standards which may be a turn off for some.

blah, that is the end of my babbling. Not sure how useful it is, but those are my thoughts.

Good Luck.

Mel...

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

Manix said:
You and me, both! I wrote the stupid thing in three months and have been editing it ever since. I'm sure yours is top-notch, if they asked you by phone for the full! That's a very good sign!

I was so shocked an confused when it happened. I couldn't think straight. I'm almost positive I sounded like a TOTAL idiot on the phone. :tongue

I hope she doesn't hold that against me, lol.

@dgi- Yes, that would be close to what my guideline would be if I were an agent. Let's hope you are right!

Mr Flibble · May 17, 2009

I think that puts it very well Mel.

If every sentence has three adjectives in it...if the first paragraph has three typos in it.... Yeah not so good. If they are small, occasional errors in an otherwise sound MS, don't worry.

If it gets accepted you're going to have to do multiple edits anyway, fixing anything from typos to adding a chapter. You'll be sick if the sight of it by the end, believe me!

ETA: oops, typo! lol.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

haha, yeah. I can't imagine. I'm already growing sick of read-overs so getting accepted will be a huge blessing stringing along a minor curse.

jclarkdawe · May 17, 2009

Real world is that you will always have errors. My publisher warned me when she shipped THE BOX of books, that I would find at least one error. In the end, we found six, which was after extensive line editing. Every published book probably has at least a couple.

So the real world is everyone accepts that there are going to be errors. The question is how many and how bad.

Think about this as sort of being like the speed limit. Let's say it's 65 mph. Does that mean that at 66 mph you're going to be stopped by that friendly state trooper? Probably not, but if your car looks like a rolling crime scene, it wouldn't surprise me if a cop pulls you over.

Now if you're going 95 mph, yeah, you're going to get a ticket (or worse).

What speed in between is going to get you a ticket? Well, it depends. And the same thing with errors in your manuscript. If the writing and story is really good, the errors matter less. If the writing and story is marginal, the errors matter more.

Relax. If the errors cause it to be rejected, you get a chance to improve it before the next time (life lesson learned). But you'll know it's on the cusp of being accepted in that case, and just needs some more tuning to get there. Otherwise, your book will probably make it or not based on its merits.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

benbradley · May 17, 2009

If I may be so bold, knowing probaby less about this than Mel, to edit the following post:

dgiharris said:
My opinion (i've yet to get a book published mind you) is that it depends on the nature and severity of the errors.

If page one has an error every other line, then I doubt they get passed page one.

If we are talking minor errors, maybe two or three per page, I don't think its a big deal provided the writing is good.

In my mind there are two types of errors.
Type 1) Errors that are indicative of your abilities.
Type 2) Errors that are not indicative of your abilities, that is, simply an error.

If the writing is good, solid, etc. then any error will be percieved as a Type 2

Yeah, as long as these errors are not TOO egregious...

dgiharris said:
However, if the writing is not good, then ~~the errors will be percieved as a Type 1 error~~ it doesn't much matter if there are any errors of either type.

dgiharris said:
Good Luck.

Mel...

Ditto that.

Manix · May 17, 2009

jclarkdawe said:
Does that mean that at 66 mph you're going to be stopped by that friendly state trooper? Probably not, but if your car looks like a rolling crime scene, it wouldn't surprise me if a cop pulls you over.

You must have seen my car...hmm. I didn't know we lived that close.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

jclarkdawe said:
Think about this as sort of being like the speed limit. Let's say it's 65 mph. Does that mean that at 66 mph you're going to be stopped by that friendly state trooper? Probably not, but if your car looks like a rolling crime scene, it wouldn't surprise me if a cop pulls you over.

Now if you're going 95 mph, yeah, you're going to get a ticket (or worse).

love the analogy. Thanks

scarletpeaches · May 17, 2009

I think the upshot is we have to accept typos will always get through, but don't allow yourself to think for one moment that typos are acceptable. Once you give an inch, more and more errors will start to creep through.

Aim to catch them all, while bearing in mind you probably won't.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

Yeah I agree. I feel as though my manuscript is almost barren of typos, I just have a problem with repeating words too often such as "immediately" or repeating character names too many times instead of using pronouns.

Mr Flibble · May 17, 2009

Epiphany said:
Yeah I agree. I feel as though my manuscript is almost barren of typos, I just have a problem with repeating words too often such as "immediately" or repeating character names too many times instead of using pronouns.

Me too, me too. *sighs* Knowing I have the problem makes me more aware of it - but I did / do miss some. But if it's only occasional, and those are your only problems, you should be fine.

Aim to catch them all, while bearing in mind you probably won't.

Sage advice young lady.

Karen Duvall · May 17, 2009

I was so embarrassed by the number of typos and missing words I found in my ms after I got my agent, but she never even saw them. She was more focused on the storytelling to notice, so that's when I realized how diligent I need to be when proofreading.

Epiphany · May 17, 2009

Karen Duvall said:
I was so embarrassed by the number of typos and missing words I found in my ms after I got my agent, but she never even saw them. She was more focused on the storytelling to notice, so that's when I realized how diligent I need to be when proofreading.

That's good news! I feel as though that's what the agent should be focused on, especially since I'm already at the part where she requested a full, so I'm guessing she'll be more interested as to how the story plays out and not how many errors it holds.

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