When to quit

Judg · May 7, 2009

Here is the single best article on the topic of when it makes sense to quit that I have ever seen.

And here's the naked link, just in case.

http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2006/10/15/when-to-quit/

So, do you agree? Did he miss anything?

ChaosTitan · May 7, 2009

I have to say, this was my favorite quote:

If you can make your ordinary experiences fantastic, why do you need to save up for a party?

Having dreams and goals is still important. Goals and dreams give you directions and they help you chart the unexplored territory of your own growth. But they have no value in themselves. Becoming a millionaire, marrying a supermodel, winning the Olympic gold. If the journey to these destinations wasn’t fantastic then the reward is only dust.

Wise words.

Bubastes · May 7, 2009

Excellent article. Thanks!

Judg · May 7, 2009

The whole article bears reading, but I think this is the heart of it:

Your dream had two outcomes, either you reached it successfully or you didn’t. Success or failure, these were the two outcomes and the primary source for your equation. Unfortunately the difference between these possibilities on your total level of happiness is negligible in the long-term. Your outcome based thinking has been sabotaging your happiness and destroying your ability to make effective decisions.

The answer to this problem is to shift the way you look at your life. Instead of judging whether or not you should quit pursuing your dream based on your chances of success you ask a different question. Would I like to experience working to become a famous actor? Would I like to experience building a business from the ground up?

In this perspective goals are merely lighthouses in the distance with no intrinsic value of their own. These lighthouses merely guide your travels through interesting waters. By taking up this mindset the question of whether you will fulfill your dream becomes irrelevant. By focusing on the outcome you are putting all of your emphasis on the tiniest portion of life’s journey.

So if you are pursuing your dream and you don’t think you are going to make it, the question of whether or not to quit doesn’t depend on your chance of success. The real question is whether pursuing this dream is causing you to grow? Does this path fill you with passion and enthusiasm? Do you feel alive? If the path you are on currently is giving you the greatest growth, passion and fulfillment it doesn’t matter whether you ever reach your destination.

I have to admit, this is going to take some time for me to process. In the meanwhile, I'll keep writing...

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

Ironic that he tries to burst the self-help bubble while the webpage advertises his own self-help books.

Also that it links to another article, 'how to think for yourself'.

blacbird · May 7, 2009

The real question is whether pursuing this dream is causing you to grow?

Nah. What's mainly causing me to grow is I eat too much.

caw

Judg · May 7, 2009

Scarlet, I got the impression that he was trying to balance the self-help message, not pop the bubble. I'd be more inclined to take him seriously than most other self-help types. They drown any good advice in so much hype and marketing I can't be bothered to waste my time. Hype and marketing make me gag.

OK, now I'm diverting my own thread. How lame is that?

Phaeal · May 7, 2009

He's saying what I say all the time in these forums, so I agree.

Oh, in case you missed what I always say, or rather quote from Bhagavad-Gita:

You have a right to work. You don't have a right to the fruits of work.

So if the work itself isn't reward enough, yep, time to look for other work. By work I mean your perhaps woefully unpaid bliss, not the job that pays the bills. Bill-paying jobs you just have to shoulder through many times, remembering you have your real work waiting on the other side.

Mr. Anonymous · May 7, 2009

I think it's a very good article (thank you for sharing) but I disagree in part about the whole "the journey is important, the end is not" idea. The end would be nothing without the journey, but similarly, the journey is in many ways redefined and brought into a different light by the end, whatever it may be.

I DO want to become successful through writing, and I DON'T think that my life would be the same if I get there. Yes, I'd look to set new goals, yes what I have accomplished would eventually lose its extraordinary quality and become ordinary. But I would be able to make a living doing something I want to do, which would be pretty sweet no matter how long I've been at it.

Barrett · May 7, 2009

I always considered writing to be a self-correcting process, meaning that if you are writing because you dig storytelling and writing narrative, you'll eventually finish a number of works, and the chances are good that some will be quality. People who love an activity learn every facet of it that they can. It's like eating chips - one is never enough. That addiction will lead to improvement because you're constantly writing and reading and studying grammar and sentence structure, etc.

If you're writing to get to the end, I believe it will show in the finished piece. That may not be too big of a deal for small works, but I'd think it would kill the normal sized novel, draining it of it's passion and depth. Even life-long bestselling authors like King and Steele suffer when they just phone it in.

Claudia Gray · May 7, 2009

I think this is very well-said. If you don't love writing when you're fighting hard to grab an hour or two of writing time a day after work, who's to say you'd love it if and when you made the big time? If the process alone makes it worthwhile to you, then it's definitely worth doing.

(Obviously there are some parts of the process you're not going to love, but chances are, parts of the achieved dream won't be as shiny as you first thought, either.)

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

Phaeal said:
He's saying what I say all the time in these forums, so I agree.

Oh, in case you missed what I always say, or rather quote from Bhagavad-Gita:

You have a right to work. You don't have a right to the fruits of work.

So if the work itself isn't reward enough, yep, time to look for other work. By work I mean your perhaps woefully unpaid bliss, not the job that pays the bills. Bill-paying jobs you just have to shoulder through many times, remembering you have your real work waiting on the other side.

...which is the exact opposite of what the Bible says. (That there is nothing finer than for man to enjoy the fruits of his labour).

KTC · May 7, 2009

Judg said:
Here is the single best article on the topic of when it makes sense to quit that I have ever seen.

And here's the naked link, just in case.

http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2006/10/15/when-to-quit/

So, do you agree? Did he miss anything?

I was about to scream my face off at you...then I realized it wasn't a 'boo hoo whoa is me' thread and I calmed down a bit. (-;

For me...I have no goals. I have no expectations of failure or success. I only pursue one thing...the line that takes me from the birth canal to the grave. It's all we have. I enjoy writing...it's a huge connection into the magical world of the mind. I will always write. I'm not chasing a dream so I have no reason to consider a quit time...a make or break time. It is what it is. I am merely filling in the spaces between birth and death, Grasshopper.

blacbird · May 7, 2009

KTC said:
For me...I have no goals. I have no expectations of failure or success. I only pursue one thing...the line that takes me from the birth canal to the grave. It's all we have. I enjoy writing...it's a huge connection into the magical world of the mind. I will always write. I'm not chasing a dream so I have no reason to consider a quit time...a make or break time. It is what it is. I am merely filling in the spaces between birth and death, Grasshopper.

So . . . you don't try to get your writing published?

caw

KTC · May 7, 2009

blacbird said:
So . . . you don't try to get your writing published?

caw

I knew somebody would say that. Yes...I am trying to get published. But I'm not hanging on the rejection/acceptance thing. Writing is a pastime for me...a hobby. I take it very seriously...but if I write 100 novels and never get one of them published I will still be winning...because I'm doing something I love. The final goal for me is not publication...even though I'm constantly achieving publication and receiving rejections. Big whoop. I'm just playing the game. The final piece to every game that every one of us is playing isn't success or failure. It's death.

bettielee · May 7, 2009

Well, didn't the bible mean literal fruits, as in the harvest?

KTC · May 7, 2009

bettielee said:
Well, didn't the bible mean literal fruits, as in the harvest?

lol...was anything in the bible meant to be taken literally.

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

bettielee said:
Well, didn't the bible mean literal fruits, as in the harvest?

Maybe. I think God said, "Plant the seeds but you're not allowed to eat what grows. You're supposed to just enjoy the process of tilling the soil."

KTC · May 7, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Maybe. I think God said, "Plant the seeds but you're not allowed to eat what grows. You're supposed to just enjoy the process of tilling the soil."

That's what I love about the whole thing...tilling the soil. I prefer gristing the mill. (-;

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

In other words, yes, I enjoy writing. But I want to slap anyone who suggests I shouldn't look for rewards and should just stick to enjoying the process. What utter, utter, unadulterated, pure, 100%, 24-carat shite.

I want payment. I want rewards. I want awards. I want money and groupies and fans and readers.

Would I write anyway, if someone said I wouldn't have any of these? Maybe. If I did, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.

Enjoy the process? Enjoy sucking my left one.

KTC · May 7, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
In other words, yes, I enjoy writing. But I want to slap anyone who suggests I shouldn't look for rewards and should just stick to enjoying the process. What utter, utter, unadulterated, pure, 100%, 24-carat shite.

I want payment. I want rewards. I want awards. I want money and groupies and fans and readers.

Would I write anyway, if someone said I wouldn't have any of these? Maybe. If I did, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.

Enjoy the process? Enjoy sucking my left one.

If you would like me to enjoy sucking your left toe, I suppose I will. If I have to. I'm saying the process for me is the most important thing. This is not to say that I am not fully immersing myself. Hell, if I didn't think it would help my path I wouldn't be jumping on a plane to Africa this winter to attend a writing program. I have a whole lot of things I could be spending that money on...but I'm pursuing it...it's just that I don't need that finish line. It's cherry on the pie, but I like pie without the cherry on top too. That doesn't sound right. Maybe I mean it's the icing on the cake...but I don't really like cake without icing. I think you know what I mean...so, whatever.

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

I would not dare to rant at the Messiah. I was merely ranting in general at the navel-gazers who claim to have risen above such material pursuits.

Me? I am base. I want material rewards.

Also, I stuck my left toe in your cherry pie.

KTC · May 7, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
I would not dare to rant at the Messiah. I was merely ranting in general at the navel-gazers who claim to have risen above such material pursuits.

Me? I am base. I want material rewards.

Also, I stuck my left toe in your cherry pie.

There is a lesson in there somewhere. I don't know if this means that you just stepped on my dreams or taught me that the dream is not a dream but a metaphor for dying without regrets. Maybe the toe being stuck in the cherry pie is my redemption.

scarletpeaches · May 7, 2009

Promises are like pie crusts - made to be broken.

By my left toe.

Wayne K · May 7, 2009

I think I can enjoy the tilling, but I'm an attention whore--I like rewards. It doesn't have to be big.

When to quit

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

ChaosTitan

Around

Bubastes

bananaed

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

scarletpeaches

blacbird

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

Mr. Anonymous

Just a guy with a pen & a delusion

Barrett

Claudia Gray

scarletpeaches

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

blacbird

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

bettielee

I'm a sparkly fairy princess!

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

scarletpeaches

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

scarletpeaches

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

scarletpeaches

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

scarletpeaches

Wayne K