PA not charging a fee

They're not charging a "fee" - as in requesting money up front for printing or cover art or *groan* editing. They charge authors once the book is finished. It's a purchase price that makes allowances for all of that other stuff on the backside --"reverse" vanity publishing.

Because it is true. They don't make authors pay fees. Where they get their customers - I mean, authors - is forcing them to buy their own books. They can say encourage all they like, but the fact is those authors would get nowhere fast if they didn't buy their own books. They don't have a choice BUT to buy their own books.

PA Lurkers: All those authors you love, the ones on the bookshelves in stores all over the place? This is not how they got there.

PA does not charge a fee for:

1. Book acceptance
2. Book editing - i.e. a cursory spellcheck
3. Book cover - usually a stock image

PA does charge fees for:

1. Books for the author (no complimentary copies, books are highly overpriced)
2. Shipping and handling (again, overpriced)
3. Advertising of one's book in other books printed by PA
4. The right not to have inappropriate advertisements in one's book (one author saw an ad for a steamy romance in her book, which is for children)
5. Special deals (e.g. frames for royalty checks)
6. Your rights returned, once you're tired of all this

Compare that to Random House or Penguin Books or any other real publisher who does not charge a fee for:

1. Book acceptance
2. Book editing
3. Book cover made especially for your title
4. Books for the author

Nor do they charge for:

1. Shipping and handling of author copies
2. Advertising of one's book in other books
3. No inappropriate advertisements in one's book
4. Special deals (ads in trade magazines, review copies sent to PW, Mid-West Book Review and other venues, aisle dump displays for bookstores, etc.
5. Your rights returned, should your sales dip below a certain point.
6. Listing your book with Ingrams / Baker & Taylor, book distributors.
7. Proper listing on the publishing website
8. Links to your website or that of your agent.
9. Forwarding of your fan snail-mail
10. Cover quotes from famous writers in your genre
11. A specific release date
12. YOUR BOOK STOCKED IN STORES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY
13. Your editor available to talk about book related matters
14. Your editor wanting more books from you
15. You're welcomed into professional writing organizations like RWA, Authors Guild, MWA, SFWA. etc.

AND ABOVE ALL, YOU GET A REAL ADVANCE!

.

It's a backend scam.

They use their message board to excite new unknowing writers.

When the writer recieves their first author copies with a note to buy more books at a 50% discount for a limited time, the writer bites and buys books. Whamooo. You just paid to publish.

Now, if everyone who submitted to PA never bought their own books, the scam would have ended.

The scam works by playing on the emotions of writers.

Ken Schneider said:

The scam works by playing on the emotions of writers.

Click to expand...

There are similarities to other schemes...

Ken Schneider said:

It's a backend scam.

They use their message board to excite new unknowing writers.

When the writer recieves their first author copies with a note to buy more books at a 50% discount for a limited time, the writer bites and buys books. Whamooo. You just paid to publish.

Click to expand...

From what I've read, PA used to give the author two "author copies" for free, but they don't even do that anymore.

Do they still give the one-dollar advance check, or did they stop that too?

Geez, even the scamsters are going through tough times...

Pointing out the numerous faults of PA is fine, but if criticism is to be effective it must be factual. No one can be forced to buy a book unless it is done at gunpoint. Implying that all people having books with PA must buy them is simply untrue.

Dick Stodghill said:

Pointing out the numerous faults of PA is fine, but if criticism is to be effective it must be factual. No one can be forced to buy a book unless it is done at gunpoint. Implying that all people having books with PA must buy them is simply untrue.

Click to expand...

While it's true that no PA author is held at gunpoint to buy his/her own books, with PA's new no free copy policy, the only way the author will be able to have a copy is to buy one. In reality the author is forced to buy at least one copy, IF they want to see the final product, unless of course they have someone who will buy one for them.

Dick Stodghill said:

Pointing out the numerous faults of PA is fine, but if criticism is to be effective it must be factual. No one can be forced to buy a book unless it is done at gunpoint. Implying that all people having books with PA must buy them is simply untrue.

Click to expand...

I was there, at the PA board before you Dick, or many others who post here now. I know of what I speak. I have seen many of your comments on the PA board.

There were thousands more before me, and there will be thousands more unsuspecting wanna-be writers sucked into that trap.


No one has to buy books. But, I am well aware of PA's hurrahing tactics that create excitement in new writers who think they've hit the big time.
The owner of that Printing house has an education in the field of mind games, if you weren't aware. They know how to tug the heart strings of these unsuspecting newbies. Sending two author copies with a letter offering a discount for a limited time to buy your own books, is pressuring.

If anyone who was ever with PA believes their intent was not to sell books to the authors, not the public, is blind.

PA funnels writers into a spot where they must buy books if they want people to read them. No exposure to brick and mortor stores, monthly deals to buy your own books. Hell, I wrote it, sell it to someone who hasn't.

There was actually an author who struck a deal with a grocery store chain to carry her books in their stores, lots of stores. PA dumped her as soon as they found out about the deal? Why?

How many PA books are sold to people who never meet or know the author personally, or meet them face to face? PA books are sold to, and by PA authors. Very, very scant few people buy a PA book from online locations unless steered there by the author or a family member.

No you don't have to by your own books, and if no PA author did, PA would've been out of business eons ago.

CaoPaux said:

It occurs to me that PA authors not only have pay for copyright registration, they must now buy the books to file with it.

So, yes, unless PA authors forgo registering their copyright, they must now buy their own books to comply with filing requirements or else face Federal penalties. That close enough to a gun to the head for you?

Click to expand...

There are federal penalties for not registering the copyright of a book? I thought not registering only limited how much damages you could get if you sued someone for infringement.

While Dick's comment is of course true, I don't see what prompted it, at least not in this thread.

CaoPaux said:

There's no penalty for not filing. But if you do file, you need to supply copies of the work in question.

Click to expand...

Yeah, ha, now that I think of it. They used to gave you two copies. You would have to use those copies to file with the LOC. That would leave you with, um, let me see, ur, well, no copies of your own.

Dick was right. You don't have to buy any of your own books. That is unless you want one for yourself.

I bought a bunch. 1,500.00 bucks worth. In the end, I gave some away, and sold the rest for 5.00. So I paid 1,500.00 to publish with PA. Silly me.
No one wanted a 15.00 book by an unknown author. So, it cost me to pub my writing with PA. They had me from the acceptance e-mail.

I was so excited that day, I remember, I would have painted the whole outside of that old brownstone office they had in fredricksburg for free.

What is really sad is, I turned down an offer to publish with Whiskey Creek press because PA's spiel sounded better.

How many did you buy, Dick. Sans the gun to your head?

Dick Stodghill said:

No one can be forced to buy a book unless it is done at gunpoint.

Click to expand...

The vast majority of writers printed by PA have no choice but to buy their books if they want to sell them.

colealpaugh said:

There are similarities to other schemes...

Click to expand...

Your analogy is true on so many levels.

Ken, I have never bought a book from PA or anyone else. I've been around this business for too many years to do such a thing.
Ben, the reason I posted it is that one untrue statement destroys the credibility of everything else that is written or said. A lifetime of writing for newspapers and 30 years of selling mystery short stories and novellas taught me that. Accuracy is paramount.

Doesn't the PA contract say the author is responsible for doing everything they can to market the book? And then they tell people that the best way to market the book is to have copies on hand?

If the company no longer provides even one copy that the author could keep on hand to demonstrate the book itself to potential customers, then where is the customer supposed to get them if not to buy them themselves? It's a catch-22 where it's not "required" but definitely encouraged/implied. And for anyone who knows nothing about how the publishing business actually works, they think it's the way things are done everywhere.

PA doesn't require authors to buy their own books. But they're betting that the authors will buy their own books, and so far they've been winning their bet.

Sure, there are authors who never buy any copies. Other authors buy twice as many. The average holds. PA makes their profit on a small number of sales per title by overpricing their volumes.

When a PA author noticed that there were problems with her book's illustrations (smeared, I believe), PA replied that if she bought a certain number of books, they would consider fixing the problem.

When a PA author needed a electronic copy of her manuscript, PA replied that if she bought a certain number of books, they would send her that copy.

If one decides beforehand that the only way to force people to buy something is to put a gun to their heads, then of course one would not consider these examples of PA forcing people to buy their own books. But then again, such rigid definitions (e.g. vanity publishing is where the writer pays up front) play into the hands of slick operators like PA.

True, Cyia, but still no one is forced to buy books. That is what is being discussed at the moment. PA does everything possilbe to get people lacking knowledge of the business to buy books. They cannot force anyone to do so.
This does not mean those who do buy them are necessarily making a mistake. If that's what they want to do, fine. It's their business, not mine. I wouldn't do it, but there are those who like to sell them out of the trunk of their car.
There are many legitimate faults concerning PA. Making everything factual should be no problem for anyone. It's the one thing that isn't true that can offset all the things that are. It can undo all the good points that are made and that's my point.

benbradley said:

There are federal penalties for not registering the copyright of a book? I thought not registering only limited how much damages you could get if you sued someone for infringement. . . .

Click to expand...

U.S. law apparently requires copyright owners or publishers to submit copies of published works to the Library of Congress via the Copyright Office, regardless of whether they choose to register the copyright.

This is part of what I found at the Copyright Office:

Mandatory Deposit

What is mandatory deposit?
Mandatory deposit (17 U.S.C. section 407) requires the owner of copyright or of the exclusive right of distribution to deposit in the U.S. Copyright Office for the use of the Library of Congress two complete copies of the best edition within 3 months after a work is published. Copies of all works under copyright protection that have been published or distributed in the United States must be deposited with the Copyright Office within 3 months of the date of first publication. (See Copyright Office Circular 7d, Mandatory Deposit of Copies or Phonorecords for the Library of Congress, and the Deposit Regulation 202.19.) Electing not to register your copyright in the work with the Copyright Office does not exempt you from the mandatory deposit provision of the law.

Click to expand...

I am skeptical that more than a tiny fraction of self-publishers and small independent publishers pay any attention to that requirement. And frankly, I doubt that the LoC would want the avalanche of books that would come in if they all did.

--Ken

I have registered my manuscripts with the Copyright Office and was able to send digital versions of my books through the uploader on their site. It never stated a physical copy of the book needed to be sent also.

Regarding PA stating in the contract that it is up to the author to promote their work, that wording is not in my contract. It simply states that PA will promote the work at it's discretion. On the PA website it states that authors are the best people to promote their work, but it isn't in my contract.

While PA does not require any author to purchase a book (Dick is correct), they do highly encourage and send practically weekly e-mails to get their authors to purchase books. Many bookstores will not stock PA and/or POD books, so if an author wants their book on the bookstore shelf, it means they will need to purchase books upfront and then arrange a consignment deal with the bookstore. And, as several people have stated, PA used to give out author copies and they no longer do that. If an author wants to see a copy of their book, they'll need to buy one. If they're going to buy one, why not buy two or ten or twenty? Just to have on hand, as PA reminds frequently.