Can we share the love a bit?

Do you think maybe we can share the love in poetry crit a little bit?

I'll explain why i say this:

I've noticed recently that the front page of the critting section is often dominated by 1 or 2 AWers. Sometimes as many as half the poems on the front page have been written by two people. That's 10 or more out of 20.

Also, it seems that people who might be posting for the first time or don't post that regularly are getting left out of the critting circle, often slipping off the front page with only one or two comments, whereas the people flooding the forum with their work are getting plenty and staying on the front page as a result.

And tell me, honestly, how many of us go back past the first page when we take a look at the poetry on offer? I know i have to make a conscious effort to do so.

Yes, it's lovely to share our work with everybody, but is it possible to share a bit more space with them, too? Do we have to post everything we've written at once? Sometimes we might be in a poetic mood and write three or four poems in a day, perhaps more (especially with the PAD challenge in April). But do we need to post them all at the same time? Can we hold some of them back a little bit, make sure they have even more polish before we post them? That'll give us time to crit other people's work and share the love. It'll also make us less likely to just post in the threads of people we like or whose poetry we like. Got a community here, we do, and we need to make sure it keeps living and the new or irregular poets don't get discouraged and go elsewhere.

poetinahat said:

I understand Iz' concern, and, knowing Iz a little, I am certain his comment was meant in good spirit. Front-page airtime is precious, and we are a sharing community; as such, a little consideration and discretion is always a good thing.

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I'm glad you see this in the spirit it was intended, Rob.

And i'm definitely not trying to be discouraging or asking for more rules to be instituted. Was just hoping that people might be able to come to a balance on their own. Usually when something like this happens, and someone addresses it (politely, as i hope my post was), then it tends to even out.

And Mike, i certainly didn't mean to imply that people should stop posting altogether for a while. But if we spread our posting out a little bit it means everybody gets a chance to play for a bit longer, is all, and the newbies who work up the courage to post (because sharing poetry can be a little daunting at times, can't it) won't feel left out.

And finally, more variety of poems and poets on the front page means there's more chance for us to learn from critting or reading different styles. I know that's how i learn most, anyway, but that might not apply to everybody.

Feiss said:

Then again, I thought, why limit myself, so on those prolific days, I'd crit prolifically too.

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And you'd always crit prolifically all the poems on the front page, I'd notice, not just ones by people you knew.

Ambrosia said:

So should I feel guilty because yesterday I had a creative burst and wrote three poems over coffee and posted them? Or am I exempt from this concern because I am 'new'. When do I need to start feeling guilty if not now?

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Where did i say you should feel guilty?

If you are finding poems have fallen off the front page then go a page or two deeper and bring them back to the top.

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Yes, but people generally don't. Perhaps that was why I made specific mention of that and acknowledged that it's an effort to do so?

That is what I do. I hate to see anyone with no comment on their poem.

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Do you? I'm glad to hear it. But I'm not just talking about poems with no comments here, as i define a little further below.

If everyone here was making that effort, I believe the poems would get equal time.

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That was exactly my point, Ambrosia.

Why should one poet be penalized because he writes short poems? I don't understand.

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Who here was mentioning penalties? And who here was being singled out? I don't recall mentioning names, and it was never my intention to do so. And perhaps Rob's mention of Mike was in regards to the fact that he was the next commenter on the thread, rather than any singling out?

The way to make new poets feel welcome and a part of the poetry forum is comment on their work and give them encouragement.

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Exactly my point, Ambrosia. But a lot of the new or irregular poets are only getting one or two comments on their poetry before their poems disappear from the front page and never surface again.

I have learned a great deal from Mike and shudder to think of the person who comes onto the board in a few days and doesn't see his work, doesn't have the opportunity to learn from his style and expertise. That's just wrong.

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Please tell me where i said people shouldn't post. There's a huge difference between asking that people possibly think about limiting the amount of poems they post at once and saying that people shouldn't post at all.

Shall i quote what exactly i said:

me said:

Yes, it's lovely to share our work with everybody, but is it possible to share a bit more space with them, too? Do we have to post everything we've written at once? Sometimes we might be in a poetic mood and write three or four poems in a day, perhaps more (especially with the PAD challenge in April). But do we need to post them all at the same time? Can we hold some of them back a little bit, make sure they have even more polish before we post them? That'll give us time to crit other people's work and share the love.

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Notice how i never say that people should stop posting. I just ask that people consider not posting all of their poems at once.

If we write a whole lot of poems at once, what's wrong with posting one and keeping the others back for a day or so to further polish them? Not only are we giving our work the extra respect it deserves, we're also making sure that what we post for crit is going to genuinely be at a stage where it would benefit just as much from other peoples' eyes as our own, which in turns shows respect to our critters. In turn, we can apply what we learn from the crits we receive on the first of that batch to the others before we post them.

In fact, Ambrosia, I find it offensive that you would imply some of these motivations on my part (and in case you say you weren't, i don't feel it's wrong for me to take offense when i was the initial poster and therefore can reasonably assume that any comments not attributed as being directed to someone else are being directed to me). I'm all about the community and while my post count may not be what it used to be (for reasons that are my own, and nobody else's, and have nothing to do with this site or its members) I have had a huge involvement during my time here and hope to continue having a huge involvement.

There's no need for you to get on your high horse and ride to battle about this. If you've taken offense i apologize, but i do make the comments with the view of the community at large, and not just a few individuals, and definitely not myself. I don't make comments like this lightly either. I only make them based on observation over time.

And yes, i do realize that when comments like this are made some people do choose to get upset, whether it's visibly or behind the scenes, and i hesitated to make my comments for that reason. But i have now, and while i apologize if i've caused offense i do feel my comments are valid and needed to be made.

To reiterate: I'm not asking for anybody to stop posting. I'm only suggesting that we make an effort to share the love as much as possible, and not just with the people whose poems we usually comment on. If people still want to post a whole lot of poems at once it's not my place to stop them, and i certainly wasn't asking for rules to be created and enforced. I was just sharing some suggestions with the best interests of everybody in mind

caseyquinn said:

Isaac, the reason, in my experience, the newer poets only get 2 posts is that in 99% of the cases they post their poem without criting anyone elses - as a general rule and common curteousy usually you crit first, then post for critiqueing.

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For sure, casey, but what's wrong with thinking the best of new poets and making them feel welcome, even if they haven't critted anybody else? We can even mention nicely to them that we wouldn't mind a comment on a poem of ours, or something along those lines.

But the main thrust of my post was about sharing the love, not just in critting, but in general poem posting as well. And i'll stand by the comments I've made as being neither unfair nor unreasonable

Ambrosia said:

I am insulted by your response to me. Who are you to speak this way to me? When I responded to this thread I responded to the thread in its entirety. That means to the group as a whole. I did not address my post to you. If I had intended my comments to be addressed to you I would have put your name at the top of the post. I was responding to all of the posts and all of the suggestions and comments within this thread. I do not know why you chose to take my comments personally, but I feel attacked. And it is not appreciated. Excuse me for having an opinion and voicing it.

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As i went to pains to point out in my post, i took offense because i am the OP. Seeing as the comments weren't directed at anyone specifically i assumed they were directed at me. And they were thrown about in a fiery and aggrieved manner, whereas up until then all participants of the thread had been dealing with each other very politely. That is why i took offense, and i am still offended. In any case, the questions and statements in my post to you could easily be reworded from 'I' to 'anybody'. As in, 'when did anybody say you should feel guilty?' And please don't throw threats around such as

Coming after me, however, is the wrong move.

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That's childish and paranoid. I wasn't coming after you; i was addressing your post and the reasons it offended me, as you have since to mine. I still don't see where in my OP i worded anything in an offensive manner, and i've already apologized in case it was offensive.

You may have been here longer, you may have watched the thread and events here longer, but do not assume that you are the only person here who has the interests of this forum and the participants at heart. Just because I am new to the forum does not mean I do not feel strongly about it and want it to thrive. I frequent very few forums at AW. I have a couple I call 'home'. This is one of those I call home.

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You seem to think that everything said in this thread (and not just by me, it would seem) is attacking you. It is not. One of the reasons I mentioned that i've been around a while and participated and was making these comments with the community in mind was to make sure that people (like yourself) understood i didn't create this thread to draw attention to myself or because i had personal grievances against anybody.

You asked where you said I should feel guilty. The title of your thread, asking if we could share the love a little, and the focus of your thread of not posting multiple poems in one day can only lead me to assume that if I post more than one poem a day I have violated some unspoken rule and I am being selfish and stealing from other members in the crit forum. And that leads me to being guilty for being selfish and stealing from others who have more right to be on the front page than I do. Which just may be everyone.

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You took that from my initial post? Tell me where i said that people should stop posting, or shouldn't post multiple poems. I asked questions for people to think about. I gave reasons for asking my initial question and then i asked more questions (and even gave some reasoning behind those questions). Nowhere did i say 'this is how it should be done'. In my personal opinion, my initial post and the one subsequent (after mike and rob responded) were in no way argumentative or attacking. And yes, my post in response to yours may have been a little strong, but i was a tad heated. I actually did take the time to explain why i was heated, though.

And again, to reiterate: I am not asking for rules to be instituted. Not in any way. I'm just asking people to think about some questions and how they might be able to incorporate them into their poetry crit activities. And nowhere did i say they had to be. If my addressing this issue offends people, well, i can't control that.

And, skelly, i remember when you brought this up last time, and i often wondered if that had anything to do with why you dropped off the map for a while. Fortunately (in a manner of speaking) i'm not writing all that much poetry at the moment, so i can handle any "cold shouldering" that comes my way. It's good to see you back, btw. And you too, dobiwon.

And, ktc, i'm hoping you get your poetry mojo back soon, because i miss seeing your poems in crit (though i do venture into the chapbook to read any you put up).

Lemme quote Fei, because she understands why i posted:

Feiss said:

Back to the issue. There have always been people who dominate the front page, I was one of them for a while, and honestly, whenever I had many pieces on the first page, I found the number of crits and viewers decreased for each of the poems. A critter is going to want to read one, maybe two of my poems, and then to be fair (or maybe they're just sick of my voice), they'll move on to someone else's.

I think posting one poem at a time is a way to give the poem time to be digested by the forum and get the crit it deserves.

However, sometimes I'd have a really creative day or a day with several problem and just really need to share the work with my online "family" immediately. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but on those days, I tried to crit others as much as possible.

This is really a reciprocity issue, you can't force anyone to "share the love", but I know Iz was trying to remind everyone that this is a forum, not a "show"

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