Het women writing gay erotica romance

SFLP

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I'd get a lot more work AND writing done if I'd stop wondering about stuff.

I just sent on an email to Brindle; we were discussing his name. He'd said something to the effect that he'd seen agents and publishers say they wouldn't accept romance submissions from male authors. (Seems silly to me.)

Now, so far as romantic erotica goes, there are times when I'm reading a story that seems to be aimed a women (generally not a commercial story) where I say to myself, "Self, I am almost sure this story was written by a man, even though his name is Susan Smith."

That's a real, total, huge, complete generalization, btw. I've read great erotic romance written by men. I've seen women write stories with the same issues that make me think it's a man. It just seems to me there are telltales, sometimes. e.g. If her 40DD bra size is mentioned in the first three paragraphs, often, in my experience, the author is male. A continuous excess of sexual fluids outside the body, that's another. There are a lot more subtle things than that, but...lol

So it got me wondering: What do gay men think about the zillions of MM romances coming out now that are written (and read) by women? Do they have the same sort of issues? Are there places in the story where gay men say "This is *definitely* written by a woman."

Just curious, plus, what the heck - I'll know what to avoid.

J.
 

Brindle Chase

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I'm not gay...but I did recently read a urban fantasy wherein most of the sex scenses that came up were M/M... and althought I already knew the author was female... I could tell by the writing... it was written in the same sort of way that you can probably tell its a guy writing romance. Not to stereotype, but the lack of emotion was what most Het women complain about Het men and praise Gay men for... but, her she is writing her gay men fantasy and emotion is right out the window and its two hot gorgeous guys just pounding one another... and no cuddling afterwards! *lol* Anywho... I havent read lot of M/M stuff... but I think women get it wrong as much as men get romance wrong.... IMHO.
 

veinglory

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The gay community is general oblivious-to-disinterested with rare exceptions that lean favorable more than hostile (my response to that here, link possibly not work safe).

As for judging the writers real gender, not only is it tricky it begs the question of whether gender is truly dichotomous. Many erotica writers have a very fluid or ambiguous gender identity.

I would also say that presses very very rarely require you be one gender or the other. The only one I know outside community projects (e.g. an anthology theme by 'written by' designation) I can think of only Virgin/Black Lace--and again this has a lot more to do with their branding than a beleif about how men and women write.
 

SFLP

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(my response to that here, link possibly not work safe).

Lucky me, I work from home. :)

As for judging the writers real gender, not only is it tricky it begs the question of whether gender is truly dichotomous. Many erotica writers have a very fluid or ambiguous gender identity.
I agree. In fact, I prefer the stories that are sort of...somewhere in the middle.

The really, REALLY (did I say "really"?) romantic stuff that a lot of my friends love, I just can't stand. I mean, it just gacks me.

I'll read it anyway. I will read absolutely anything. (If I forget a book when I'm out of town, I read the telephone book, seriously...I will read *anything*.)

Thanks for the link, Ms. Emily. I'm reading it now. (Yeah, instead of working or writing. I need to add AW to my block list for a week ;))

J.
 
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I'm not gay...but I did recently read a urban fantasy wherein most of the sex scenses that came up were M/M... and althought I already knew the author was female... I could tell by the writing... it was written in the same sort of way that you can probably tell its a guy writing romance. Not to stereotype, but the lack of emotion was what most Het women complain about Het men and praise Gay men for... but, her she is writing her gay men fantasy and emotion is right out the window and its two hot gorgeous guys just pounding one another... and no cuddling afterwards! *lol* Anywho... I havent read lot of M/M stuff... but I think women get it wrong as much as men get romance wrong.... IMHO.


WOW!

Really great analysis of the "Hypocracy" of many of us female authors
when it comes to "unfeeling sadist" Stud daddies.

LOL!

I just published a new book on AmazonKindle ("THE PUSSYEATER") that
I didn't intend to be a "gay" book, but by chance, it ended up having
a shocking twist at the end that sort of rendered it a gay book by
default (the lead male, a master of pussy-eating, turns out to be
transsexual who was once female).

Women loving the book don't find that out until the very end, though.

I hadn't intended for that ending, but it just popped in there, because
all through the book I had him being "blackmailed" for a mysterious
secret and I didn't know what that secret was going to be.

I'm glad I read your post.

I do want to write more gay characters, and I really do want to make
them HUMAN above all else and infuse them with feelings to go along
with the hot sex.
 

Deleted member 42

Here's another question:

What about self-identified het men and women writing lesbian erotica?

Is is an issue? Last time I looked--a couple of years ago--it was.
 

jodiodi

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In a past life I wrote erotica: M/F, F/F, M/F/M, F/F/M, F/M/F--I think my problem with writing any M/M erotica comes from lack of knowledge. I mean, I'm a woman. There's no way I would know what it was like for a man to have sex with another man. I could guess, approximate, survey; but whatever I wrote would be an approximation. I have quite a few gay friends, but I don't feel comfortable using them as 'sources'. I kinda keep my writing life separate from my 'real' life.

I guess I don't want to unintentionally insult any gay men who might read what I wrote by getting the whole sex and/or relationship wrong.
 

Amy R.

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I don't write m/m, but I write from the hetero hero's pov all the time. And I'm not a hetero guy, yet no one has issues with that. So why shouldn't women write about gay men? You can always do some research about gay sex ;-)

In the end, it all comes down to how well the story worked for the reader.
 

thethinker42

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I don't write m/m, but I write from the hetero hero's pov all the time. And I'm not a hetero guy, yet no one has issues with that. So why shouldn't women write about gay men? You can always do some research about gay sex ;-)

In the end, it all comes down to how well the story worked for the reader.

Amen to that.

I've written some gay erotica short stories, mostly to prove to someone that a woman can, in fact, write male POV erotica. I had a couple of guys (gay and straight) read them over, and they all "approved".

Now I'm writing a gay erotic romance novel. We'll see how it goes. I think that both genders are perfectly capable of writing in the opposite's POV, whether it's sexual or not. Yeah, you might have to ask some questions about what certain things feel like, but my gender isn't going to prevent me from writing from a male POV any more than my lack of flying ability will prevent me from writing about a fighter pilot.

If someone wants to criticize a story, saying it's unbelievable or perpetuates stereotypes, fine. But I can't imagine having a negative reaction to the gender of the writer, especially without first READING the story.
 

AyJay

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I'm a gay man, and I don't read much erotica of any sort but I will share that my partner looooves Anne Rice (who I'm pretty sure is heterosexual) and thinks her homoerotic vampire stuff is totally hot.
 
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I'm a gay man, and I don't read much erotica of any sort but I will share that my partner looooves Anne Rice (who I'm pretty sure is heterosexual) and thinks her homoerotic vampire stuff is totally hot.

And it is.

That's the only time I've ever been aroused reading about 2 men
getting Kinky is in Anne Rice's books.
 

SFLP

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A gay friend introduced me to Anne Rice in the mid-eighties. (God, I'm old.)

He'd turn me on to any decent gay lit he could find, but used to bitch because he could find so little of quality.

Hopefully, that's changed by now.

J.
 

SFLP

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I write from the hetero hero's pov all the time.

Boy, I'm glad to hear someone say that. I find it so much easier to write from the male protagonist(s) POV. Have no idea why. Made me feel strange or something. (OK, so, I *am* strange, but apparently not in that way.)
 

Deleted member 42

An awful lot of the mainstream ostensibly het romances have sex scenes written from the "male" point of view. It's completely from "her" POV up to that point.

I'm serious; pick up a couple and look just at the sex scenes; what's being described--the way she feels, or what's happening procedurally?
 

SFLP

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...the way she feels, or what's happening procedurally?

I tend to write the way *he* feels, but I can see what you mean. I've read lots of stories like that.

For some reason my male characters are more...vivid to me than my female characters.

Must be a personal problem or something!
 

rugcat

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I have a writer friend, straight woman, who was written a literary novel with a gay male protagonist and although the book is not erotica, it includes a lot of explicit sex scenes.
 

Deleted member 42

Samuel Delany's Dhalgren has a lot of explicit sex, queer and not, yet it really truly is unquestionably SF.

And his erotica-written-as-erotica is mostly so fetish-heavy that it's in a genre class with very few members.
 

Amy R.

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Boy, I'm glad to hear someone say that. I find it so much easier to write from the male protagonist(s) POV. Have no idea why. Made me feel strange or something. (OK, so, I *am* strange, but apparently not in that way.)

Nah, you're not strange. (Or maybe we both are!) I enjoy writing from the hero's view, too.
 

sunandshadow

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I've never had a gay male react negatively to my gay erotic romances. On the other hand I have occasionally seen negative reactions against the Japanese-influenced stuff with the strong seme/uke stereotypes.
 

Brindle Chase

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Here's another question:

What about self-identified het men and women writing lesbian erotica?

Is is an issue? Last time I looked--a couple of years ago--it was.


I believe it still is. I have seen several publishers who will not consider lesbian themed romance or erotica if it is written by a male author. I'm not sure how it applies to Het women, but Het men are a no no. Shame that. =) I've had a a few lesbian friends of mine read my stuff, and they had no issues with it... but then, they are friends, so I imagine there is a bit of bias there! *lol* Who knows. I ran it through that online "is it written by a male or female author" check thingy... and it came back saying it was written by a female author... but there again... not exactly sound science there! *lol* I dunno... I think people stress too much on the gender/sexual preference of authors and miss out on alot of great stories if they just wouldnt narrow their minds.
 

Maryn

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Someone's already said pretty much everything I might have said in this thread, so I'll just tip my hat and move along.

(What, you're not all wearing hats?)

Maryn, who writes a better gay man than het woman
 

SFLP

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I ran it through that online "is it written by a male or female author" check thingy...

I'm lazy. Save me searching time. What the heck are you talking about? (I'm probably the only one who doesn't know, as usual - lol)

J.
 

Deleted member 42

I'm lazy. Save me searching time. What the heck are you talking about? (I'm probably the only one who doesn't know, as usual - lol)

J.

Gender Genie here.

It analyzes a short passage of writing and decides if the writer is male or female, based on a bunch of word lists and assumptions about the differences in male and female language use.

There's some validity, but not a lot, to the way the gender genie works; for one thing, it treats all writing as "the same," ignoring, for instance, that most academic writing attempts to be gender neutral.

And some of its assumptions (women use more passive clauses, and more adjectives) aren't as true as they once were.