Copyright On Really Old Fiction?

Antaeus · Apr 14, 2009

I was thinking of writing a historical fiction novel similar to what Jack Whyte did with King Arthur lore in Dream of Eagles, only using the tale of Robin Hood instead. I'm not going to delude myself with the idea that I'm by any means the first one to do such a thing, but I'm hoping I'll be able to find a relatively unexplored angle.

Emphasis on relatively. x.x

Anyway, my question is what, if any, legal red tape there is around an old tale such as Robin Hood. Copyright and everything like that. I can't imagine that something as widely used and old as Robin Hood would have much 'Mine!' legal stuff around it, but I figured I might as well ask. ^_^

Prozyan · Apr 14, 2009

I believe the legend of Robin Hood is public domain.

Gillhoughly · Apr 14, 2009

It is.

The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood by Howard Pyle is one of the best known and most beloved versions of the old tales.

Robin Hood also appears in T. H. White's The Once and Future King. A book well worth reading. White taught me a thing or three about writing.

When in doubt, Google the title you're interested in and "public domain."

Inspiration is cool, but no copying word for work. It makes editors VERY cranky!

Antaeus · Apr 14, 2009

Aye, I'm trying to avoid reading contemporary works, just in case I get too attached to ideas I shouldn't grab. x.x; I was thinking of basing it more on an origins of the character, chronicling his childhood, a more detailed account of the fighting in the Crusades some versions of the tale mentions, and his forming of the band of bandits. I'd probably end the tale then, wrapping the story up but leaving it open-ended enough if opportunity for a sequel arises.

I'd be using familiar characters as a template, but also tossing in some new ones, the same with origins of various locations. I use the term historical fiction relatively loosely, because I'd be taking some creative liberties in terms of locations, mostly relating to fusing the concepts of Loxley, Nottingham, etc.

Anyway, thanks. ^_^

Pomegranate · Apr 14, 2009

Don't forget to read Ivanhoe. When I read it, it seemed to me like a version of Robin Hood with more characters.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 14, 2009

The ballads are still available; that's the oldest version and ultimately the inspiration for all modern versions.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 14, 2009

There was a Robin Hood play in amongst the Paston letters.

As Friar Tuck says of Maid Marian:

Here is an huckle-duckle, an inch above the buckle;
She is a trull of trust, to serve a frere at his lust.
A pricker, a prancer, a tearer of sheets,
A wagger of buttocks when other men sleeps.
Go home, ye knaves, and lay crabs by the fire
My lady and I shall dance in the mire
For very pure joy.

Cyia · Apr 14, 2009

Pomegranate said:
Don't forget to read Ivanhoe. When I read it, it seemed to me like a version of Robin Hood with more characters.

Yes! I got into an argument with my English teacher over this one in 8th grade. It's got the "archery" scene in it.

Pomegranate · Apr 15, 2009

and a number of the scenes with the jewess are the same as maid marian scenes.

Danthia · Apr 15, 2009

Just make sure what you know about the story and what you use are from the public domain version. So many others have done Robin Hood that still-copyrighted material can easily have crept into your mind

Millicent M'Lady · Apr 15, 2009

A useful site for anyone wanting to read US public domain literature for free is www.Gutenberg.org. It's also handy for checking if a particular work has passed into the public domain. They have loads of texts. Don't know if everybody already knew about them but wanted to share as they got my broke bum through college!

starrykitten · Apr 15, 2009

I think I remember hearing something once about a work's copyright changing after 100 years, though I don't remember what. Does anybody know what I'm thinking about? Whatever it is, it likely depends if there's an estate still interested.

blacbird · Apr 16, 2009

In the U.S., applicable copyright provisions work out such that anything published prior to 1923 is now in public domain. That will remain so until 2018, courtesy of the late Congressman Sonny Bono, who was inveigled by Walt Disney Inc. to extend copyright protection on Mickey Mouse for 20 extra years in 1998.

Copyright statutes in Canada are different, as they are in the EU and Australia. The current U.S. statutes will come into accord with the EU statutes some years down the road, I'm not sure exactly when.

caw

ChristineR · Apr 16, 2009

Another thing worth noting is that ideas are not copyrighted--the implementation of ideas is copyrighted.

Robin Hood the idea is long out of copyright, as noted. What about other people's use of the idea? You aren't allowed to copy ideas, but at what point does it actually become an implementation of an idea, and copyrighted?

I recommend looking at the gray areas. You have fan fiction, which uses other writer's characters, situations, and places, and which is usually upheld as a violation when publishers go after it. So don't do that. And then there's Tanya Grotter and the Magic Double Bass. Courts of various countries have been unable to agree whether that was a copyright violation, as technically it used all new characters, situations, and places (which happened to be suspiciously like certain well known characters, situations, and places).

So I think you'll probably be fine if you fall well short of fan fiction, and from what you've said, I think you have nothing to worry about.

Berry · Apr 16, 2009

ChristineR said:
Another thing worth noting is that ideas are not copyrighted--the implementation of ideas is copyrighted.

Right: look at Buffy vs. Anita Blake: both are women who kill vampires (the idea), but the execution is totally different.

Can you write about a suave secret agent who sleeps with a lot of women and saves the world? Sure -- but don't call him James Bond.

Or a beach-bum who takes on peoples problems for a share of the profit -- sure, just don't call him Travis McGee.

Grabbing ideas or even whole plots and filing the serial numbers off for reuse is incredibly common. One of Uncle Jim's favorites, Dashiel Hammet's Red Harvest, has been used dozens of times. David Drake's With the Lightnings is basically Patrick O'Brian in space. (Darn! I wanted to do that one! So I will, but better...)

eyeblink · Apr 16, 2009

blacbird said:
In the U.S., applicable copyright provisions work out such that anything published prior to 1923 is now in public domain. That will remain so until 2018, courtesy of the late Congressman Sonny Bono, who was inveigled by Walt Disney Inc. to extend copyright protection on Mickey Mouse for 20 extra years in 1998.

Copyright statutes in Canada are different, as they are in the EU and Australia. The current U.S. statutes will come into accord with the EU statutes some years down the road, I'm not sure exactly when.

caw

In the UK, copyright exists for seventy years after the author's death. So the work of anyone who died in 1938 or earlier became public domain on 1 January this year.

Copyright On Really Old Fiction?

Antaeus

Prozyan

Are you one, Herbert?

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Antaeus

Pomegranate

Deleted member 42

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Pomegranate

Danthia

Millicent M'Lady

Exploring the infinite abyss

starrykitten

practical experience, FTW

blacbird

ChristineR

What happened?

Berry

eyeblink

Barbara says hi