Antagonist: What Makes a Good Adversary?

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

What makes an antagonist intriguing/good/worth our time? How do we construct an adversary? Is the construction of a good (i.e., successful) antagonist genre specific?

I think taking advantage of the unexpected (e.g. evil revealed in unlikely ways) might be a good start, but how else can we assure an antagonist keeps readers' attention?

vrabinec · Apr 14, 2009

I usually just use myself as the template.

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

vrabinec said:
I usually just use myself as the template.

Hee! But are you regular evil - or extra-special evil?

Red_Dahlia · Apr 14, 2009

I think that the antagonist has to have the opposite goal as the protagonist. To be truly intruiging though, I think that the antagonist has to have solid reasons for their goals. People very rarely think they are in the wrong, and if you can show your reader your antagonists viewpoint, they automatically become more interesting.

vrabinec · Apr 14, 2009

I write about all the things I would do if my conscience wasn't there to keep me in check, from stabbing friends in the back to assault. Basically, what would I do if I was an ass (unless I'm trying to depict a Captain Nemo type who is an antag with a misguided cause)

Fran · Apr 14, 2009

I like antagonists who are very close to the protagonist. By that I mean of similar intelligence, wit etc, but who chose a different path. I think antagonists work best when they're attractive, or even seductive, characters who you wish you could like or admire, but they're too flawed, or have done too many bad things.
This is why all my relationships suck

But seriously, this is just my opinion.

ishtar'sgate · Apr 14, 2009

I like an antagonist I don't realize is an antagonist until part way through the book. I like being lulled into a false sense of security and then going 'oh no!!!'

Gillhoughly · Apr 14, 2009

Anyone who is smarter than the MC.

And the MC still wins.

Kris · Apr 14, 2009

I think it depends on the genre to some extent, but what I like to see in an antagonist is just that he's the hero of his own story. If he's just all "EVIL", that can feel a little two-dimensional.

I always think of my ex-boss, whom I hated with a ferocity that embarrasses me now. But she wasn't a bad person, and it wasn't her fault I was hired for a job I wasn't well-suited for. We had different personalities that didn't mesh well, but under other circumstances I might have found her admirable. Sort of. Except she yelled a lot. Maybe some people like that.

Red.Ink.Rain · Apr 14, 2009

I like sexy bad guys. Bad guys who are so obviously evil that you have to hate them, but they are hot so you don't want to.

I like toying with teens' emotions.

jy'lenn · Apr 14, 2009

I think it depends on what genre you're writing. Do you want the bad guy (I'm too lazy to spell out the long words today) to be smooth and charming while stabbing everyone in the back? Someone no one would think is the bad guy until it's too late? Or do you want he/she/it to be very obvious? Is your MC to know the bad guy straight off the bat? Will the bad guy have a dual personality? (think catwoman in the batman series) Also, do you want the bad guy to be a bumbling idiot yet still somehow managing to suceed? (Referece Duck Dogers... you'll get the idea and a few good laughs)

There's got to be a reason behind the bad guy's actions, else everyone's going to get pretty bored really quickly. I agree with Lara; if the bad guy doesn't have his own story, he/she/it will be rather dull.

Anywhos, just my thoughts on the subject....

geardrops · Apr 14, 2009

Similar topic, pretty good thread: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137839

jodiodi · Apr 14, 2009

I agree with Fran.

The antagonist who is seductively evil, draws you into his/her point of view even though you know it's wrong--I love that type of antagonist. The reader should care what happens to the antagonist, regardless of his/her villainy.

I wrote a series of unpublished books and included an antagonist who had absolutely no redeeming qualities and all who read them loved to hate him. I figure he was a good antaqonist. Of course you couldn't admire him or his goals/actions, but he still caught your attention and made you FEEL something.

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

Red_Dahlia said:
To be truly intruiging though, I think that the antagonist has to have solid reasons for their goals. People very rarely think they are in the wrong, and if you can show your reader your antagonists viewpoint, they automatically become more interesting.

I totally agree. Evil for evil's sake is boring.

I think that the antagonist has to have the opposite goal as the protagonist.

*nods*

Some of the most interesting antagonists represent the flip side of the protagonist, but is yin/yang the only viable option?

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

vrabinec said:
I write about all the things I would do if my conscience wasn't there to keep me in check, from stabbing friends in the back to assault. Basically, what would I do if I was an ass (unless I'm trying to depict a Captain Nemo type who is an antag with a misguided cause)

Oh, that's just regular evil!

You make me wonder though if antagonists can be built by removing the usual stops (conscience, fear, guilt).

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

Fran said:
I like antagonists who are very close to the protagonist. By that I mean of similar intelligence, wit etc, but who chose a different path.

Another vote for two sides of the same coin.

I think antagonists work best when they're attractive, or even seductive, characters who you wish you could like or admire, but they're too flawed, or have done too many bad things.

Or someone people with questionable morals - and some "good guys" who're close to the the edge - could admire regardless. *considers*

Thanks for weighing in, Fran!

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

ishtar'sgate said:
I like an antagonist I don't realize is an antagonist until part way through the book. I like being lulled into a false sense of security and then going 'oh no!!!'

Oh, I like it! Someone who could be a good guy but takes a turn, slamming him into the protagonist's path? Or someone who's in the protagonist's circle who suddenly goes left instead of right?

Ctairo · Apr 14, 2009

Gillhoughly said:
Anyone who is smarter than the MC.

And the MC still wins.

Interesting. Do you have a favorite?

I'm wondering though: if the antagonist is smarter, why does s/he fail?

MetalDog · Apr 14, 2009

I think the most important thing is that the antagonist is seen as a very serious threat to the MC - be it as a love rival, an opposing army commander or an evil genius. Depth is great, self-justification is awesome, but for me the bottom line is that they have to look as if they really might win the day and the MC has to really work to defeat them rather than just getting lucky.

AXavierB · Apr 14, 2009

I think villains should be sympathetic. Even the most heartless, vile character has emotions and should have a reason behind their actions. Actually, that was a bit of an oxymoron...

What bothers me are villains who refer to themselves as evil. This would imply that they consider themselves bad people.

Judg · Apr 14, 2009

jodiodi said:
I wrote a series of unpublished books and included an antagonist who had absolutely no redeeming qualities and all who read them loved to hate him. I figure he was a good antaqonist. Of course you couldn't admire him or his goals/actions, but he still caught your attention and made you FEEL something.

I think Jodiodi has put her finger on it. The antagonist should engage our emotions. We can sympathize with him/her/it, we can love to hate him, we can move from love to hatred or from hatred to love, he can be simple or complex, but we should be made to care what happens to him.

My antagonist was a genuine sociopath with no redeeming qualities other than iron-clad self-control and a certain manipulative charm. But when I wrote from his viewpoint, I often did something close to stream-of-consciousness and you can't help but enjoy some of the snark in his head(I think, anyway). And I allowed him a vulnerable moment, in which he gets hurt, so hopefully he doesn't feel entirely like a monster. I'm looking forward to getting reactions to him to see if I succeeded.

Gillhoughly · Apr 14, 2009

Ctairo said:
Interesting. Do you have a favorite?

I'm wondering though: if the antagonist is smarter, why does s/he fail?

Bad guys usually have at least one fatal weakness the hero notices and can exploit.

A favorite? Joss Whedon's Spike. His weakness turned out to be Buffy.

Cyia · Apr 14, 2009

IMO, the best antagonist is the hero turned 180 degrees.

Holmes/Moriarty

Batman/Joker

Jason Bourne/the Jackal

They're so close to being twins, the "villain" is nothing but the hero's shadow - and what the hero fears becoming most because he can see himself every time he looks the villain in the face.

Matera the Mad · Apr 14, 2009

An antagonist has to have a believable goal. That goal must either be contrary to the beliefs of the protagonist, or get in the way of the protag's goal, or cause harm to those that the P cares about (or all of the above).

A good antagonist is hard to hit, and can strike back effectively. He doesn't have to provide all of the obstacles and challenges, but he has to be worth overcoming.

Red_Dahlia · Apr 14, 2009

Ctairo said:
Some of the most interesting antagonists represent the flip side of the protagonist, but is yin/yang the only viable option?

Maybe I didn't make it clear in my post, but what I meant by the opposite goal isn't opposing sides of their personalities. For instance, in a murder mystery story, the main character's goal is to catch the killer, while the murderer's goal is to elude the main character. If two characters were running for president, they would be each others antagonists, because they would both want to win, and want their opponent to lose.

Antagonist: What Makes a Good Adversary?

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