Help needed with this scene. The original is implausible...

Which scenario would you go for?

  • Scenario #1

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Scenario #2

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • None of them are plausible.

    Votes: 5 38.5%

  • Total voters
    13
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gwendy85

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Still doing some revisions in my World War II novel, but I've come across something that I now realize is implausible.

A group of American soldiers infiltrate a Japanese camp. Aside from the usual information gathering, one of them (a key character) is there to steal quinine from enemy supplies (his Filipina girlfriend has malaria). Unfortunately, he is caught, tortured and held captive in the camp.

This character had anticipated such an event, so before he infiltrated the camp with others, he wrote a parting letter to his girlfriend, which he kept in his pocket. This letter will find its way to his girlfriend through a kind Japanese soldier.

==The original scenario==

The Japanese soldier helps the American captive with some water. They talk a little, because the Japanese knows English. The American tells him to get the letter from his pocket and deliver it, which the Japanese will.

## The hitch ##

Here's where it's implausible. For captives, I know for a fact captors would search through all of their captives' personal effects, so they should have found the letter already. This American is held captive for weeks and I think it's really impossible the Japanese haven't found the letter, and of course believe it to be enemy documents.

*** Resolution ***
I need to have someone tell me if any of the two scenarios below would work.

1.) American soldier manages to hide the letter in his pocket. The Japanese interrogators find it on the same night the kind Japanese soldier gets inside the tent where the American is being held. The letter is on the interrogator's table, waiting to be translated. The interrogators are still looking for the camp translator, so it's just the kind Japanese and the American captive in the tent. The American tells the kind Japanese to take the letter from the table and send it to his girlfriend.

2.) American soldier manages to stitch the letter inside his uniform somewhere, folded to its smallest possible size. The kind Japanese gets inside, they talk, and the American tells the Japanese were to find it.

-------------------------------------------

I've read on how soldiers can hide letters, but I don't think a love letter should be hidden in the crack of one's butt. That would kill the romance right there and then. :tongue:roll:

I've set up a poll. Any suggestions would be very welcome. Thanks much!

Oh yeah! The Kind Japanese knows English, but only in terms of SPEAKING. He can't read or write English. This role would be left to a friend of his, who had studied in England for two years.
 
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Stijn Hommes

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I'll take option 3: Assuming the kind Japanese soldier knows both spoken and written English, he's not going to have a problem with the letter, but he needs an incentive to do it since the letter could be coded. Maybe, he's in love himself?

Anyway, I'd go for option 1, if the letter was kept somewhere else. If there's even the slightest chance of the American escaping of being rescued, the Japanese wouldn't want the letter to be right there for the taking.
 

gwendy85

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I'll take option 3: Assuming the kind Japanese soldier knows both spoken and written English, he's not going to have a problem with the letter, but he needs an incentive to do it since the letter could be coded. Maybe, he's in love himself?

Anyway, I'd go for option 1, if the letter was kept somewhere else. If there's even the slightest chance of the American escaping of being rescued, the Japanese wouldn't want the letter to be right there for the taking.

Oh yeah! The Kind Japanese knows English, but only in terms of SPEAKING. He can't read or write English. This role would be left to a friend of his, who had studied in England for two years. --> I should've posted this earlier. I added it in though.

Maybe, he's in love himself?

Yup, you guessed right. The Japanese soldier has a fiancee, so once he has the letter translated by a friend, he's definitely compelled to deliver the letter.
 

James D. Macdonald

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He hides the letter outside the camp. He tells the kind Japanese soldier (who was a Boy Scout and went to the World Jamboree in 1937) where to find it in order to deliver it.
 

adktd2bks

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If he anticipates that he might be captured and has written the letter before hand, then why doesn't he just keep the letter with a trusted friend on the other side instead of taking it with him where it could get lost? Then if the unfortunate event occurs or if he doesn't return by a certain date, then his friend will know that he's to deliver the letter.
 

OpheliaRevived

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"who was a Boy Scout and went to the World Jamboree in 1937" :D

I'd go Option 2.
 

Krisela

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I'd probably go with Option 2, as it's less convoluted. :)

But I don't understand why he wouldn't have left the letter with someone else, a friend, before he left on the mission, in case he didn't come back? If there's a reason why, I think you'd have to give it.
 

Little Bird

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I'd probably go with Option 2, as it's less convoluted. :)

But I don't understand why he wouldn't have left the letter with someone else, a friend, before he left on the mission, in case he didn't come back? If there's a reason why, I think you'd have to give it.

This is a good point. Is there a way he could write the letter after being captured? That would explain why the Japanese soldier would need to help him, since your plot seems to need to show kindness/empathy from this character.
 

gwendy85

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I'd probably go with Option 2, as it's less convoluted. :)

But I don't understand why he wouldn't have left the letter with someone else, a friend, before he left on the mission, in case he didn't come back? If there's a reason why, I think you'd have to give it.

WAAAH!!!! I forgot about that!!! :Headbang:

Darn. Just goes to show you really need a new pair of eyes over your work. I knew there was more than just one roadblock somewhere...

This is a good point. Is there a way he could write the letter after being captured? That would explain why the Japanese soldier would need to help him, since your plot seems to need to show kindness/empathy from this character.

Yes. The Japanese soldier's kindness/empathy is extremely critical. This Japanese is one of my main characters. And his path has to cross with that of the American's girlfriend.

Looking back in my old files, I actually DID have the American write the letter while in captivity, but I can't find a possible scenario for that either. I had thought of him being housed in a jail somewhere, but this is pretty much a Japanese jungle camp, whereby the captives were almost always tied up one way or another.

Hmmm....How about if there was no letter at all? And he just tells the Japanese to get quinine for his girlfriend and to tell her that he loves her and some such? It would eliminate the whole fiasco about the letter. It would be less romantic though, but what do you guys think?

Waahaa! I'm already laughing at how my Japanese character would communicate this, since he has a terrible accent. He pronounces 'L' as 'R'.

"Rewis-san robs you..."

Ergh...not really romantic. Haha. But whatever works. Any comments or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the responses! You guys are the best!
 

gwendy85

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He hides the letter outside the camp. He tells the kind Japanese soldier (who was a Boy Scout and went to the World Jamboree in 1937) where to find it in order to deliver it.

Or yeah, I could go with this. Tough with the language barrier though...
 

gwendy85

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But I don't understand why he wouldn't have left the letter with someone else, a friend, before he left on the mission, in case he didn't come back? If there's a reason why, I think you'd have to give it.

Hmm....I'm thinking again. I'm thinking. Sorry for the multiple posts. I just got my creative juices flowing...

This one could actually work. The American leaves the letter with a friend, telling him that if something happens to him, give it to the girl. News of his capture WILL DEFINITELY reach the camp, as one of the soldiers on that mission escapes and tells them the bad news. The American's friend gives the letter to the girl (who is, as I mentioned, struck by malaria) and her condition worsens...which pretty much will forward my plot.

As for the Japanese soldier, he'll be the one to deliver the medicine as per the American's request, and he'll tell the girl it was the American who told him to do so.

Any comments and suggestions?
 

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Well I don't want to blow your whole premise but I'm having trouble buying the kind Japanese soldier. Not that a Japanese soldier can't be human and kind, but the Japanese during World War II were so trained in honor, so brainwashed with nationalism, and they were so furious with the U.S. (justified or not) that I'm having trouble picturing one helping an American prisoner. However, since he knows English, he must have had some contact with Western culture, and perhaps isn't as blindly loyal as the average Japanese, and can sympathize with an allied soldier. If I were to read this story, I would need you to have reconciled this. I'm not sure that him having a fiance alone is enough to convince me he would help this guy. There needs to be something else; perhaps he visited the U.S. as a child and hence has some soft spot for Americans. A Japanese soldier in this circumstance would be risking death, so he needs a good reason to do that.
 

Swordswoman

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Whose problem?

This one could actually work. The American leaves the letter with a friend, telling him that if something happens to him, give it to the girl. News of his capture WILL DEFINITELY reach the camp, as one of the soldiers on that mission escapes and tells them the bad news. The American's friend gives the letter to the girl (who is, as I mentioned, struck by malaria) and her condition worsens...which pretty much will forward my plot.

As for the Japanese soldier, he'll be the one to deliver the medicine as per the American's request, and he'll tell the girl it was the American who told him to do so.

Any comments and suggestions?

This certainly makes sense, but to me it's weaker because you've split a single strong action into two: there are now two separate visits to the girl, one with the letter and one with the quinine.

This may not work for you, but I actually love plot problems because they can create the best scenes ever. The second you find yourself saying 'obviously he can't do that', then making him do it is what will give you the best scene in the book. The key thing is that if you believe in your story, then it's not your problem you have to solve, but his.

Here, for instance, I'd keep the 'plot mechanics' as simple as possible, eg the American does not anticipate what's going to happen - which is what creates your dual mission problem of letter plus quinine. He's confident he'll make it. So when he's caught and thinks he's dying he needs to comunicate with the girl and tell her he loves her. How? That's his problem.

If he's an interesting character he'll solve it. He can teach the Japanese soldier what to say - and no, it needn't be funny, it could be unbelievably moving. Imagine him making the Japanese repeat after him the words 'I. Love. You'. Imagine two men in this hell-hole, two men on opposite sides, looking intently at each other and saying those words. Imagine the scene the other end when the girl hears her lover's parting words being spoken in a semi-ludicrous accent by a straight-faced Japanese soldier. Imagine that scene in a film. You can even use physical gestures - and if you're one hell of a writer you could maybe even pull off the classic giving a simple kiss to pass on. If I did it it would be vomit-inducing, but the odds are you're a better writer than me!

If this doesn't work for the style of your story or is a step too far for the prisoner/guard bonding, then why doesn't your American do the simple thing and ask the sympathetic Japanese soldier to get him a bit of paper and a pencil? So he's tied up - have you tried writing behind your back? I just did - and it's perfectly legible. If your American has ingenuity, wouldn't he even try?

You know your character better than any of us. Just ask him what he'd do - and I bet he tells you.

Louise
 

Cyia

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They seize the letter. The kind soldier is the one who finds it (he can speak English, I guess he can read it, too). Kind soldier reads the letter, he just isn't kind yet. Uses letter to bait prisoner, until he has *change of heart*. Now kind soldier delivers letter.
 

gwendy85

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Wow. Lots of replies! I'll get back to you guys in a few. I just did a lil hooky from work haha.

Well I don't want to blow your whole premise but I'm having trouble buying the kind Japanese soldier. Not that a Japanese soldier can't be human and kind, but the Japanese during World War II were so trained in honor, so brainwashed with nationalism, and they were so furious with the U.S. (justified or not) that I'm having trouble picturing one helping an American prisoner. However, since he knows English, he must have had some contact with Western culture, and perhaps isn't as blindly loyal as the average Japanese, and can sympathize with an allied soldier. If I were to read this story, I would need you to have reconciled this. I'm not sure that him having a fiance alone is enough to convince me he would help this guy. There needs to be something else; perhaps he visited the U.S. as a child and hence has some soft spot for Americans. A Japanese soldier in this circumstance would be risking death, so he needs a good reason to do that.

I think I've had this covered with the Japanese soldier's personal background. He's not really whole Japanese. He's part-Russian**ERRATUM** part FRENCH, and he's pretty much been told all his life to keep his foreign heritage a secret. He feels ashamed of this, as though he is whole "gaijin" (foreigner, term loosely related to outsider or outcast) so when war breaks, he's determined to prove himself a true Japanese, and to prove himself worthy of his fiancee (depsite the fact she knows nothing of his being part-Russian**ERRATUM** part FRENCH). That, and a few experiences he had gone through in the war added to the change. I would write more, but there's a whole lot to say hehe.
 
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gwendy85

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This certainly makes sense, but to me it's weaker because you've split a single strong action into two: there are now two separate visits to the girl, one with the letter and one with the quinine.

This may not work for you, but I actually love plot problems because they can create the best scenes ever. The second you find yourself saying 'obviously he can't do that', then making him do it is what will give you the best scene in the book. The key thing is that if you believe in your story, then it's not your problem you have to solve, but his.

Here, for instance, I'd keep the 'plot mechanics' as simple as possible, eg the American does not anticipate what's going to happen - which is what creates your dual mission problem of letter plus quinine. He's confident he'll make it. So when he's caught and thinks he's dying he needs to comunicate with the girl and tell her he loves her. How? That's his problem.

If he's an interesting character he'll solve it. He can teach the Japanese soldier what to say - and no, it needn't be funny, it could be unbelievably moving. Imagine him making the Japanese repeat after him the words 'I. Love. You'. Imagine two men in this hell-hole, two men on opposite sides, looking intently at each other and saying those words. Imagine the scene the other end when the girl hears her lover's parting words being spoken in a semi-ludicrous accent by a straight-faced Japanese soldier. Imagine that scene in a film. You can even use physical gestures - and if you're one hell of a writer you could maybe even pull off the classic giving a simple kiss to pass on. If I did it it would be vomit-inducing, but the odds are you're a better writer than me!

If this doesn't work for the style of your story or is a step too far for the prisoner/guard bonding, then why doesn't your American do the simple thing and ask the sympathetic Japanese soldier to get him a bit of paper and a pencil? So he's tied up - have you tried writing behind your back? I just did - and it's perfectly legible. If your American has ingenuity, wouldn't he even try?

You know your character better than any of us. Just ask him what he'd do - and I bet he tells you.

Louise

Thanks Louise! Yeah, this might work! Haha! Guess you really love plot problems! I'll try to imagine this scene a lil better and see how I can work it out. The teaching the Japanese what to say I mean.
 
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zornhau

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If there was any chance of him being captured, he certainly would not be carrying a letter implicating a local girl.
 

Sirius

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I'm more convinced by the Japanese soldier since I read in Oxford Today a few months ago about a reunion of Oxford-educated soldiers who had been imprisoned in a Japanese POW camp and who actually invited one of the Japanese soldiers who had acted as their interpreter in the campe (who had also done post-graduate work at Oxford before the war) to the reunion. But I think you'll have to have some stronger motive than his simply being in love himself to motivate him - perhaps a sense that his captive's sense of honour is equally strong - though very different - from his own?

Also, I'm a bit wary about the phonetically written dialogue, if it can be avoided.
 

Rushie

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Wow. Lots of replies! I'll get back to you guys in a few. I just did a lil hooky from work haha.



I think I've had this covered with the Japanese soldier's personal background. He's not really whole Japanese. He's part-Russian, and he's pretty much been told all his life to keep his foreign heritage a secret. He feels ashamed of this, as though he is whole "gai-jin" (foreigner, sometimes associated as outsider or outcast) so when war breaks, he's determined to prove himself a true Japanese, and to prove himself worthy of his fiancee (depsite the fact she knows nothing of his being part-Russian). That, and a few experiences he had gone through in the war added to the change. I would write more, but there's a whole lot to say hehe.

Perfect. You got it. :)
 

gwendy85

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If there was any chance of him being captured, he certainly would not be carrying a letter implicating a local girl.

Yeah. I pretty much realize that after all the posts. At one point, I had thought of the American leaving the letter with his girlfriend's sister, telling her that if anything were to happen to him, she should give it. As mentioned, something does happen, one soldier escapes to tell news of the capture, and the sister gives the letter to the American's girlfriend.

But I have an alternate on when the sister talks with the girlfriend so scratch that.

I think I may go with Louise's suggestion. That's got some real potential to it. Thanks Louise!

Once again, AW hasn't failed me. If ever my novel gets published I guess there are gonna be several pages of acknowledgements haha.

I'll work out the scene. Can't cut it. Too important.

The best to everyone as well with their own literary endeavors! :Hug2: THANK YOU SO MUCH! :hooray:
 

Rushie

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Also, I'm a bit wary about the phonetically written dialogue, if it can be avoided.

I strongly agree with this. Phonetically written dialogue is stressful for the reader and vaguely insulting to ethnic and regional groups. It should be sufficient to tell the reader than his English is adequate, not perfect, and the reader will provide the accent in his/her mind. Mark Twain got away with this but I don't think it's so accepted nowadays.
 
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