Terminology for a magic system

[IanMorrison]

In my fantasy setting I've got a fairly dualistic magic system going. There are two ubiquitous types of "spiritual energy" that form the basis for all magic use in the world, one "dark" (corresponding to fire) and one "light" (corresponding to wind). While everyone has access to magic to some degree, they're mainly interested in the resulting effect on the environment (heat or kinetic energy) and religious implications than the underlying causes. My setting is also 600 after a nearly apocalyptic event in the setting resulted in the vast majority of the world's population, knowledge, and technology being destroyed. Prior to that cataclysm, technology was roughly equivalent to what was available in the second world war, but was augumented by extensive magical knowledge, so ancient texts would undoubtably contain references to magic in more technical, naturalistic terms.

One of the things I've always been terrible at is thinking up names or terminology that doesn't suck. In my notes, I've been referring to the light spiritual energy and dark spiritual energy as LSE and DSE, respectively, but I definitly need something better (ie something not completely lame) for casual and technical use. What would the layman refer to the magic system and the two components as? What about a scientist who was trying to impress someone with their extensive vocabulary? I was hoping you guys would have some ideas!

Other interesting properties of the magic system, in no particular order:

Dark and light energy play off each other. When they are in balance, nothing happens. When one energy is dominant, it reacts with itself to create the advertised effect until a balance is achieved.
These energies are the core of a person's "soul", and this is widely known and empirically proven. People require an environment with balanced energies to thrive, and an imbalanced one will very quickly kill a person.
Spiritual energy is effected by physical form, but not vice versa unless it is reacting with itself. It can't be directly observed at the technology levels being talked about.
This spiritual energy can be "spent", and there is a finite quantity of it in the world at any given time. I've chosen nuclear fusion as a mechanism that generates more of it (not that anyone except theoretical physicists would even know about fusion, let alone its connection to the magic system), so both types of energy are generated mainly by the sun. As a result, the magic system doesn't violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Complicated weaves of LSE and DSE can result in interesting and useful "spells". These range from basic combat magic and spells that bolster immune systems to weaves that allow for the forging of stronger metal or growing disease resistant crops. Many of these require only limited training to use, so magic is part of everyday life in many professions.
The cataclysm occured after a lengthy war with an entity made almost entirely out of dark spiritual energy, and this "Demon" is widely given the blame for the blight that followed.
The blight that has made living inside tiny, sheltered safe havens a necessity for survival is a result of a severe energy unbalance, though the inhabitants no longer have the technical knowledge to identify this.
One of the races in the story, the Kareni, were powerful magic users before the blight, able to directly manipulate LSE and DSE in ways the other 3 races couldn't, and so they would have been responsible for much of the technical knowledge about the magic system. Because their talents required decades of training and study to tap, their ability to manipulate spiritual energy has died out completely, effectively making them the only race without magic.
Religious interpretations of the world tend to recognize a balance or conflict between light and dark energies, and depending on the particular theology "light and dark" can be synonymous with "good and evil". The religions that hold that view tend to view human beings, who can only survive in a balanced environment, as imperfect creations.That's a bit of a text dump, so sorry about that. Any ideas for terminology I could use?

[shokadh]

[quote=IanMorrison;3485488]that form the basis for all magic use in the world, one "dark" (corresponding to fire) and one "light" (corresponding to wind). but was augumented by extensive magical knowledge, so ancient texts would undoubtably contain references to magic in more technical, naturalistic terms.How about "the dark fire" Corruption, and the People of the Wind? For technical references in ancient texts: The chaotic fusion energies of fire vs. the logic of wind?

What would the layman refer to the magic system and the two components as? Perhaps as the Firewind Enigma? What about a scientist who was trying to impress someone with their extensive vocabulary? I was hoping you guys would have some ideas! The Firewind Fusion Conundrum? Balance of opposing forces of Fusion energies?

[IanMorrison]

Just to clarify, while fusion seemed like a good source for the energy that avoided violating the laws of thermodynamics, nuclear fusion as a concept was pretty foreign to these people even prior to the cataclysm unless they were theoretical physicists, and even then they might not even know about the connection between fusion and the magic system.

[Juliette Wade]

Geez, this is the kind of thing I'd love to see on my workshop next week! What I'm getting from you here is that you have a fire/wind dichotomy that operates on multiple levels, both spiritual and scientific. My immediate thought would be that scientists might speak of "force" or "vectors" or "matter" (e.g. wind vector or fire vector); a religious person might speak of it in terms of "essence" or "power." Laypeople would go one way or the other depending on their view of how the universe works, whether scientific or spiritual. You would probably also see a spreading association between words throughout the general language. Synonyms for "good" and "pure" might include "wind-touched," and you could also look for other uses of wind-related terms to express things like righteous anger ("windstorm") etc. Synonyms for "bad" and "evil" might include "flaming" or "burning", and a person who appears good might be compared to a smoldering coal, etc. This is a really rich opportunity to have your worldbuilding permeate the use of language by the people of the story.

I hope this helps.

[IanMorrison]

DAMN does that ever give me a lot of ideas! Thanks Juliette!

Another interesting point I forgot to mention: the blight, which is a huge feature of daily life for these people (mainly because only very tiny sections of the surface are unaffected) is caused by a massive energy imbalance in favour of the wind energy. As a result, post cataclysm the world is actually stormier and more chaotic than it was prior, and the blight, which is fatal to linger in for more than a few seconds, is the obvious source. This hasn't escaped notice of the locals, even though they're unaware of the actual causes. I'm thinking that the typical religious interpretation is either going to be that the creator is punishing them for hubris/sins/etc, or that the demon from the pre-cataclysm war has somehow corrupted one of the fundamental forces of nature. A scientific interpretation isn't going to exist: the world population is optimistically a thousandth of what it was before, and not a whole lot of scientists made the cut.

Also, at the start of the story, the fire energy is starting to come back, and it isn't arriving gently. More like massive, sporadic infusions that literally light the clouds on fire. Your suggestions have certainly given me some food for thought as to how THAT would be interpreted. ;)

One problem I have, though: I'm uncomfortable using the term "magic" in the finished product, as the magic system is intentionally very much a basic force of nature in the same way that the laws of electromagnetism are, and is governed by consistent low level rules and properties even if the characters aren't aware of them (which I've mainly patterned off of wave theory). The magic is thereby predictable and even a crucial feature of many technologies and systems, and everyone (accept the Kareni race that I mentioned) has access to it by instinct, even if capacity varies between individuals. It's something that lends itself to more mechanical or naturalistic terminology as opposed to mysticism, and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it as such. I'm already calling complex spells "weaves" (to blatantly rip off Robert Jordan) and simpler ones "ripples" or "waves". However, I haven't found a way to reference the magic itself in the way Robert Jordan did with his One Power (with the male and female halves being Saidin and Saidar, respectively).

I'm not entirely how to get something comparable there that works, however.

[Juliette Wade]

Well, it sort of reminds me of the early idea of the elements - those being fire, air, water, and earth. D&D elementals grew out of that... I didn't think of the word "elements" last night. I don't think they'd call it magic, and if it behaves differently from magic, your readers shouldn't have a problem with it. My brain is a little overcharged at the moment, but I'll think about your overbalance of wind thing and see what I come up with. Are you looking for a single term that comprises both? Or just a way to reference both easily?

[IanMorrison]

Mainly I just need a natural sounding way for my characters to talk about it when it comes up without dragging along all the baggage that comes with "magic" and related terminology. While characters without access to that stuff might interpret it as magic, most people (who understand it intuitively) would recognize it as a force of nature instead of some wish-fulfillment machine.

I was initially working off of those four elements myself (before I realized that earth and water didn't make as much sense in the dualistic design I had and cut it down to fire and air), so perhaps speaking in terms of elements would feel natural? "It's not magic, it's elemental forces"... hrmm. Maybe an intellectual would talk about it that way, but that strikes me as a bit too verbose for a lay person who just takes advantage of it in their daily life.

It seems like something so pervasive in daily life would have its own name, kind of like how the Inuit have a lot of terms for "snow" and the Japanese have a lot of words for "rain".

[Juliette Wade]

I'm not sure you want a lot of terms, unless you want to give it a lot of different qualities. Words for snow and rain have to do with their qualities and seasons (and I'm not so sure that the Japanese have lots of words for rain. Adverbs that show rainfall style, yes. Rain itself, not in my experience). Words for god and other powers have been multiplied by people either trying to be poetic, or trying to euphemize so they don't have to pronounce the actual word-of-power. Depending on how your magic is invoked, you'll get different effects. If words are involved, then the words used to talk about the magic would be very different - I can imagine all kinds of ways to avoid using key phrases. (Think of "Speak of the Devil," which was short for "Speak of the Devil and he will appear," but it was believed if you said the whole thing then he actually would appear.)

Do you have a language you're working with? One option is to give it its own distinct word that you've created (fitting into a similar phonological system with your names).

[IanMorrison]

Well, I meant more that the concept of the magic would need to expressed succinctly in conversation without being too verbose, my reference to the way different languages refer to precipitation was a bit of a clumsy example I suppose!

I don't in fact have a language that I'm working with, despite having several exotic sounding names in usage. Though it's a little embarrassing to admit, I'm basically pulling them out of my posterior and just throwing random syllables together into something that sounds interesting, a strategy which I've been regretting, as many of them have persisted in my notes so long that it's hard for me to change them mentally (changes one of the main characters names at one point, though... THAT was an experience), which is a damn shame since I'm worried that some of them sound ridiculous. The four main races/ethnic groups in the story are the Aventa, Shiagai, Kareni, and Gauffine. There's no rhyme or reason to the choice of syllables there... if there is, it was written into my notes after the fact!

I'm leery of going into depth and creating an "old tongue" of some kind for the world to base place and people names in... I'm a little worried that the already protracted worldbuilding process I'm going through will get even longer if I go down that route.

I've suddenly recalled a fantasy series where everyone was a magic user and their society called magic "life", and a person who was born without the ability to use it was therefore "dead". Since the people in my story recognize that their souls are tightly connected with their magic, perhaps they might refer to it in terms of "using their spirit" or somesuch...

[Juliette Wade]

It sounds to me like you don't need any kind of common tongue, just a concept for what the magic is that will work for you across language groups. You could give it a Kareni name if it is commonly known that the Kareni once had special prowess with it (and you might still, for the Kareni's particular uses of it) - but on the other hand, what you're telling me about using their souls, or using their spirits, makes sense. I like that route.

You can play with different words that suggest who has control - some people might think the soul essence was in control, and some that they themselves were. People might also think of themselves and others in terms of what type of soul they have (wind or fire). It's also good for you to be thinking about the people who don't have magic use. What does everybody think of the Kareni now? That they're out of touch with their own souls? That science divorced them from their true essence? There could be some interesting things there.

Sorry about the rain thing - sometimes I get a little linguistics-fixated. Honestly I wish I knew Inuit to be able to comment realistically about their words for snow :). If you want to read a good culturally and linguistically grounded book, though (which also has many words for snow!) try Ursula LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness.

As far as language, your countries have nicely distinct-sounding names from a phonological point of view, and I think you can just keep going with that (in case you were worried).

This is sounding really cool to me.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Sorry about the rain thing - sometimes I get a little linguistics-fixated. Honestly I wish I knew Inuit to be able to comment realistically about their words for snow .


If I remember correctly, there are about four common roots, the rest is agglutination.

[Juliette Wade]

Thanks, Liosse! I always wondered about that.

[IanMorrison]

It sounds to me like you don't need any kind of common tongue, just a concept for what the magic is that will work for you across language groups. You could give it a Kareni name if it is commonly known that the Kareni once had special prowess with it (and you might still, for the Kareni's particular uses of it) - but on the other hand, what you're telling me about using their souls, or using their spirits, makes sense. I like that route.

I might just throw together a Kareni name for it for the purposes of older texts and stuff within the world... as more of an archaic usage. I think I'll go with referencing people's spirits for the rest though. At the very least, it rolls off the tongue easily enough.


You can play with different words that suggest who has control - some people might think the soul essence was in control, and some that they themselves were. People might also think of themselves and others in terms of what type of soul they have (wind or fire).

Oooh. That's a neat idea. Depending on philosophy, more poetic references could be "reaching out with your true self" or "harnessing inner energies" or something along those lines. Perhaps philosophically wind could be associated with ego and fire with id, so saying someone has a firey spirit would be to say that they're driven by their passions while a "soul of air" could be someone who keeps a cool head and thinks things through. Maybe other philosophical directions could be pursued... fire always consumes, wind is always in motion?

Certainly bears more thought!


It's also good for you to be thinking about the people who don't have magic use. What does everybody think of the Kareni now? That they're out of touch with their own souls? That science divorced them from their true essence? There could be some interesting things there.

That has occured to me. There are tons of conclusions the ignorant can come to there, none of them positive, which is awesome in this instance. The Kareni were really the people in charge. Kareni dominated societies pre-cataclysm were the most powerful, and the more pluralistic societies usually had a large number of Kareni in the elite. Once they finally found safety from the cataclysm, they were removed from their power base and generally despised by the other three races... in the best case, their position is underfoot of everyone else. In the worst cases, small-scale genocides have occured. They don't have an enviable position in the post-cataclysm world.

This plays in nicely. After all, if they don't have souls, they must be animals, right? Then there's no problem with "culling the herd", so to speak...


As far as language, your countries have nicely distinct-sounding names from a phonological point of view, and I think you can just keep going with that (in case you were worried).

This is sounding really cool to me.

Glad you like it, it's nice to know that I'm not completely off my rocker. So none of those names come off as stupid, awkward or contrived? :)

[Juliette Wade]

No, they just look like you modeled them after different Earth languages, which works fine. If you want to look at more language information, I had a language design discussion (http://talktoyouniverse.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-linguistics-can-help-you.html) and workshop (http://talktoyouniverse.blogspot.com/2009/02/workshop-role-of-language-and-culture.html) on my blog.

What I think is really cool about this is how you're already expanding your sense of the cultural meaning of the dichotomy. I hope that comes through in the text you're writing. Where are you in your process?

[StarDrifter]

maybe humours has a different meaning in this world with the fire/wind balance thing going on? That's a layperson word.

[IanMorrison]

I thought that the concept of humours was more of an academic concept at the time. Still, you've got a point... that'd be a good way to look at it. In fact, in this case it'd be technically correct... balancing the two energies would be very important to a person's health!

@ Juliette:
Not where I'd want to be. I've been plugging away at the world for four years or so now, alternating between worldbuilding, designing my characters, and figuring out the plot in my spare time... and, of course, ripping it all down and building it up again several times! At this point I'd say that it's finally solidifying into something I could be happy with, and I'm starting to write plot overviews and random scenes (for practise). I've been looking for a point in the worldbuilding process where I could just get started without worrying about shooting myself in the foot too badly.

Part of the problem is that I'm not a writer by trade. I'm a programmer with extensive art training, and this is a project in my spare time being juggled with my OTHER projects. While I'm by no means a bad writer, I'm not good at the kind of prose that would be necessary to tell my story in text alone... not without spending years learning the craft. As such, I've been planning towards using a graphic novel format to take advantage of the type of writing I CAN do and the 17 or so years I've been drawing stuff. Alas, that means that more prep and conceptual work needs to be done up front, and that I can less afford to make mistakes with my plot or world, since revision would be very painful indeed once I start drawing pictures, especially if I were to publish as I went!

[Juliette Wade]

Cool, Ian. Graphic novels are getting a lot of attention these days, so it's not a bad way to go. On the other hand, you might experiment with writing prose just to see how it went (and it seems you may be doing that).

I spent a good eight years designing my mega-world on and off during my education before I ever started writing it. It's still not published, but at this point I am, which feels nice. I hope to go back to it with the wisdom of experience :) and make it the novel I always imagined way back then. But this stuff does take a beastly long time.

[IanMorrison]

Cool, Ian. Graphic novels are getting a lot of attention these days, so it's not a bad way to go. On the other hand, you might experiment with writing prose just to see how it went (and it seems you may be doing that).


I've certainly tried, but the reality is that I'd need several years of practise at the very least to be able to tell the story I want to tell in that format, and I simply haven't the time to learn that skill between my many projects and my dearth of free time. I have found, however, that I can write conversations and the kind of scripts I'd be working from decently enough... I'm hoping it will be enough. I'm not averse to learning new skills, but I've got a lot of stuff I want to do and I have to prioritize. :(


I spent a good eight years designing my mega-world on and off during my education before I ever started writing it. It's still not published, but at this point I am, which feels nice. I hope to go back to it with the wisdom of experience :) and make it the novel I always imagined way back then. But this stuff does take a beastly long time.

I'm curious... at what point did you decide that the worldbuilding was finished and you could comfortably pursue the task of writing your story? While my own world has been solidifying over the last little while, I still find alarmingly large alterations happen on a regular basis, and in retrospect each of those changes was utterly necessary... and it's sometimes feels like I'll never get started on actually writing the damned thing.

[Juliette Wade]

I started writing the story when I discovered who the characters were. The characters are the primary driving force behind my stories. When I first started writing it I didn't know what I know now, but basically I needed to know how the characters were situated in their world, and how that made their situations intolerable. Much of story momentum comes from characters who have goals and will suffer greatly if they don't achieve them. So until you have those (and their goals should definitely be world-influenced), it's hard to start. Once you have the characters, their backstories and motives worked out, then the story will start to write itself, and you can fill in necessary world details later when you encounter them.

One of my big aims in any story I begin currently is to try to build the world so thoroughly into the character that when I put that character into a scene of conflict, every move he or she makes reveals the world as he or she understands it.

Do you have a sense of your characters, and what they need to do?

[TTCleveland]

I use to have a work where there were fire and air magic users. I called them Pyromancers and Aeromancers.

I think that sounds fairly technical and mystical at the same time. Meh.

[IanMorrison]

I started writing the story when I discovered who the characters were. The characters are the primary driving force behind my stories. When I first started writing it I didn't know what I know now, but basically I needed to know how the characters were situated in their world, and how that made their situations intolerable. Much of story momentum comes from characters who have goals and will suffer greatly if they don't achieve them. So until you have those (and their goals should definitely be world-influenced), it's hard to start. Once you have the characters, their backstories and motives worked out, then the story will start to write itself, and you can fill in necessary world details later when you encounter them.

One of my big aims in any story I begin currently is to try to build the world so thoroughly into the character that when I put that character into a scene of conflict, every move he or she makes reveals the world as he or she understands it.

Do you have a sense of your characters, and what they need to do?

Some characters, but not all that are integral to the plot. Most of my protagonists write themselves at this point, even if there's a few lingering issues I want to address, and some of the antagonists as well. Not all, however... especially "characters" like major organizations. Would you say that fleshing out those characters (within the context of the story universe) should be sufficient for worldbuilding, then?

[Juliette Wade]

I think you have all you need to start - but make sure you have the sense of drive started, or it will be hard to continue the work. This isn't going to be the final draft, and you'll have plenty of time to figure things out as you encounter them. By the time you're finished you'll know much more about your world than you did when you started, because writing in it is completely different from sitting back and designing. Then you can take the knowledge you've gained and go back and fill in what you need in the earlier sections so the whole thing fits. You've got to figure you'll be doing multiple drafts, at least if you're aiming to approach agents and publishers with it. It sounds like a strong piece, so I'd say dive in and see what you can do with it. A lot of writing stuff is to be learned by doing, so I wouldn't really concern yourself much with how long it's going to take. It'll take as long as it takes. I'm a stay-at-home mom and my kids are 3 and 6, so I basically have fifteen hours a week to myself while they're in preschool and kindergarten. I do as much as I can with that time, and just keep at it, because that's all I can do. It's worked for me so far.

[IanMorrison]

Thanks Juliette, with luck the worldbuilding requirements will identify themselves in the rough drafts. Thanks for the advice!

[Juliette Wade]

No problem. This is some of my favorite stuff to talk about, and I'm glad it was helpful.