writing fighting?

It really depends. I've seen it in some scripts.

"They fight."

That was it. The movie ended up having like a five minute fight scene.

Others get more detailed. One thing to accept when writing action or fighting, there's no guarantee the director will keep or even remotely follow what you've written.

What you want to do, you want to give those reading it a general feel and pull them into the scene. I prefer to make it as exciting as possible to grip the reader into reading more and get them into the fight scene and routing for the good guy.

Clarity is very important.

I'm sure there will be highly differing opinions. Again, some scripts have something as simple as "They Fight" and others have a blow by blow that may or may not make it into the movie itself if it ever gets made. Another thing to consider. Is there anything important that happens during the scene that you need to focus on or bring to attention.

I'll use True Lies as an example.

The first Tango scene, it's all about avoiding getting caught and opening the way for his in with the art consultant later.

The second dance scene are his partners making fun of him.

The third dance scene, where his wife is in her undies, it shows her going from awkward to sexy, reminding him why he loves her, pushing her outside her comfort zone, and also how she tries to handle being a spy.

The fourth dance scene, the tango, is showing the intimacy rekindled between the two and how far along his wife has come, and how much they enjoy working together and how much better off they are than they were in the beginning.

Also fight scenes in that movie show a lot, there's fights where he's against multiple people, there's fights revealing her character, showing her go from never handled a gun to actually defending herself against the other woman and escaping the limo.

What you reveal in the fights and dance scenes can be more important than the actual details of the dance/fights.

Hope that helps give you an idea.

Since you need to pull your reader into the movie you're writing and pump up adrenaline levels, I'd add a lot more detail than "They fight."

Here's an oft-quoted article from pro screenwriter Bill Martell, whose website runs daily tips: Why Write a Fight Scene?

-Derek

There's a thread around here that addresses this - I can't seem to find it. But I'll toss in some loose change.

I'm a screenwriter. I'm also a professional fight choreographer. I've worked on stage and on screen - as a performer, director and stunt co-ordinator, so I have my own take on this.

I THINK it was David Mamet who said something like "Dialogue isn't supposed to sound like real dialogue - its supposed to sound like real dialogue to an ACTOR"

Fight scenes are a bit like that I think.

A fight scene is there for a number of reasons, but primarily there are two. The exact same two reasons that any scene should be in the script. ADVANCE THE PLOT and ILLUMINATE CHARACTER.

So - ask yourself 'why are they fighting?' - this will advance the plot. Then ask yourself 'how are they fighting?' - this will advance the character.

I think you should write enough of the fight to advance the plot (Someone is wounded, some secret is revealed, whatever) and your description of the fight should illuminate the characters. (Are they skilled? Desperate? Frightened? Angry? Cool and collected?) If you don't know enough about a particular martial art to describe it accurately - do some research - but don't overdue the technical details. Just as it's a BAD thing to spend valuable page real estate describing in minute detail the set dressing and costumes - it is enough to provide the READER (Who hopefully is the Producer/Director and later the stunt co-ordinator) with your intent for those scenes.

The fights should be engaging, energizing and should advance the plot and reveal the character.

Once on the set - its possible the director, fight choreographer and actor will come up with an entirely new scenario - but they got there because of the ideas you put down on paper first.

WriteKnight said:

There's a thread around here that addresses this - I can't seem to find it. But I'll toss in some loose change.

I'm a screenwriter. I'm also a professional fight choreographer. I've worked on stage and on screen - as a performer, director and stunt co-ordinator, so I have my own take on this.

I THINK it was David Mamet who said something like "Dialogue isn't supposed to sound like real dialogue - its supposed to sound like real dialogue to an ACTOR"

Fight scenes are a bit like that I think.

A fight scene is there for a number of reasons, but primarily there are two. The exact same two reasons that any scene should be in the script. ADVANCE THE PLOT and ILLUMINATE CHARACTER.

So - ask yourself 'why are they fighting?' - this will advance the plot. Then ask yourself 'how are they fighting?' - this will advance the character.

I think you should write enough of the fight to advance the plot (Someone is wounded, some secret is revealed, whatever) and your description of the fight should illuminate the characters. (Are they skilled? Desperate? Frightened? Angry? Cool and collected?) If you don't know enough about a particular martial art to describe it accurately - do some research - but don't overdue the technical details. Just as it's a BAD thing to spend valuable page real estate describing in minute detail the set dressing and costumes - it is enough to provide the READER (Who hopefully is the Producer/Director and later the stunt co-ordinator) with your intent for those scenes.

The fights should be engaging, energizing and should advance the plot and reveal the character.

Once on the set - its possible the director, fight choreographer and actor will come up with an entirely new scenario - but they got there because of the ideas you put down on paper first.

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This is extremely good advice that I can only second.

Not just fight scenes but action scenes in general. Every scene has to be moving the story forward, and that should always apply to action scenes.

And every scene should be about character and that should also always apply to action scenes.

You go back to the best action scenes -- the best action movies, the best action stars.

They're always character driven.

NMS

That Bill Martell blog is really interesting. Another one to add to my list, especially since I'm scheduled to write a fight scene for my Script Frenzy effort tomorrow.

Enzo said:

That Bill Martell blog is really interesting. Another one to add to my list, especially since I'm scheduled to write a fight scene for my Script Frenzy effort tomorrow.

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Fight scenes are pretty common fare in features. I've written many differnet kinds of fights and many different kinds of settings.

I think "They fight" is terrible screenwriting ... because a screenwriter's supposed to describe what's being seen on the screen and "they fight" is much too simplistic an expression to describe anything in any sort of cinematically and dramatically compelling way. A fight usualy means there's something at stake, something big, something worth fighting for. Fights are often peak emotional moments in features.

I sure don't want to leave those kinds of moments up to the imagination of my reader, and that's what "they fight" does, it hands the writers job of imagining and then writing the action off to a reader, not a burden they want to be saddled with. They expect at least some cues.

Here's one I penned for a Western I recently completed, one of several in the script.

Hmm, I'm neither a pro nor expert but I really do think that it depends.
The above is well-written, conveys the point and leaves a lot to the choreographers, however, where action can "clutter up" a page, I've read that some professionals appreciate in-depth input, if only for them to completely dismiss it afterwards the way some/most/whatever directors would camera shots.

Here's an article with one of the bloke's who wrote, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (and yeah, he simply wrote: they fight): http://www.moviemaker.com/screenwriting/article/kung_fu_writing_2421/

At the end of the day, if you're writing a martial arts flick and you simply write they fight, it's going to look crap. In-depth action choreographed on the page may annoy some readers, but others will admire the descriptions of the way the fight was enivisioned as being - what styles were used, blocks and whatnot.
I read this in an interview with a Hong Kong action writer a while back but can't remember who so can't look for it.
I only remember it because I was wanted to write an M.A. script and had no clue as to how much detail I should use. His comment was clear in that a director for example can get away with writing a hell of a lot more.

I just checked out Batman Begins and Bourne 3 where the former has more detail, it's by no means move-by-move; the latter merely mentions "Treadmill fighting" to describe the action.

I agree with everyone here talking about how a fight scene (or any scene, for that matter) must advance character and plot, and that you should describe the action in ways that do those things. One thing I'd add, though, is that, when you go off looking for scripts to inspire you, keep in mind that those scripts were written for studios already interested in the project - probably, in fact, by studios who had already BOUGHT the project.

For instance, if you read the ubiquitous .pdf available for THE MATRIX, you'll see that the Bros. put very little detail in their action scenes. That's fine: WB, Silver, et. al, knew what they were going to do - bullet time, etc. However, I think that, as a spec writer, your job is different: to create a more COMPLETE reading experience.

In other words, a spec you hope to get Spielberg's attention with should be a heckuva lot better-written than the Koepp draft of WAR OF THE WORLDS.

I did want to clarify that I am in no way endorsing "They Fight." I merely said I've seen it in more than one script and those scripts are probably as Script a Wish said that they're most likely already purchased or write for hire pieces where they probably already have a choreographer who may have actually told the writer "Don't bother about the fight scenes, I'll worry about them."

As I said above, I go into far more detail, I try and give a good picture of the fight, but my main focus is the purpose of the fight, why is it here, what does it reveal so that it's not just another fight scene.

"They Fight" - is used by Shakespeare.

FOR HIMSELF.


Shakespeare KNEW what they would do with the fight scenes. So yeah, there is ALWAYS a caveat about self-produced scripts. They are different from spec scripts in many, MANY ways. So as other have said, looking at a spec script, or a commissioned script - or a FIRST DRAFT vs a 'FINAL DRAFT' - (which is in reality, merely a transcription of the completed film, NOT what they had on set) - they are all different birds.

I think most people looking for advice on form/format on this forum, are addressing SPEC SCRIPT scenarios. At least, that's my assumption when I read here.

If there's a particular element in the fight that's needed for the script, like a particular weapon, word, or injury, then you script it. If you just need people pummeling each other, then leave it to the stunt coordinator.

Cyia said:

If there's a particular element in the fight that's needed for the script, like a particular weapon, word, or injury, then you script it. If you just need people pummeling each other, then leave it to the stunt coordinator.

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For a spec writer this seems to ignore the most important persona in their loop, the reader.

And not just the story department reader who acts in the beginning before a greenlight has been switched on, but everyone who comes afterward assumimg there is an afterward ... production manager, director, actors, sound recordist, stunt coordinator, art director, producer.

Goodwriterguy said:

For a spec writer this seems to ignore the most important persona in their loop, the reader.

And not just the story department reader who acts in the beginning before a greenlight has been switched on, but everyone who comes afterward assumimg there is an afterward ... production manager, director, actors, sound recordist, stunt coordinator, art director, producer.

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Not at all. It simply doesn't waste valuable space detailing something the writer has no control over. You can set the tone of the fight, the locations, the participants, and any crucial elements of it in a sketch form rather than full out blow-by-blow directions.

Cyia said:

Not at all. It simply doesn't waste valuable space detailing something the writer has no control over. You can set the tone of the fight, the locations, the participants, and any crucial elements of it in a sketch form rather than full out blow-by-blow directions.

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Ahh, but here's what you wrote:

Cyia said:

If you just need people pummeling each other, then leave it to the stunt coordinator.

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And, I assume, just write, "They fight."

It's be an odd story situation to need nothing more than people "pummeling each other," I'd think. There has to be a point.

I don't think anyone advocated writing a fight out in a blow-by-blow manner. That would indeed be wasting valuable page space.

However, a spec script is primarily a sales pitch. It's got to convince a whole bunch of people that the movie it portrays would indeed go over well with audiences and if there's five fights in it and these folks read "they fight" five times I think they're not going to get the gist of what these fights are all about nor learn anything about the nature of the characters who are engaged in them or what, in the end, they really mean.

That's why we should characterize a fight and describe its key features, which of its actions are decisive, which of them reveal character, and which of them moves our story forward.

A fight is a golden opportunity to do these things, an opportunity we squander by writing "they fight."

Moreover, there is suspense in a fight, who's gonna win? And "Oh no! He can't win if he fights like that! C'mon, Charley, whack this guy!"

This operates for a reader every bit as much as it will for an audience.

And some fights end in a draw.

If we write "they fight," is the stunt coordinator going to read the script, study the characters, examine the plot, see what's at stake, and create a compelling knock-down-drag-out that serves all these purposes? Or is he just gonna tell the actors, "You guys fight, I'll tell you when to stop."

Most of all I think a writer has to convey to a reader what's going on. There's gotta be some setting up, there's gotta be some inciting incident that causes the fight to erupt, and there has to be combat that befits the characters and their roles in the story and there has to be some odds going in and hopefully a surprising turn of events that gives the protag the upper hand, after appearing to have lost.

A blow-by-blow description fails on these counts as much as "they fight" does. I think we need more than a sketch, at the same time we don't need a ton of words, either.

Through all the bickering (users trying to prove each other wrong) I'm sure you're left confused on what to do. As Icerose said...worry about the purpose of the fight instead of the fight itself. I've seen some write "They Fight" and I've seen some go into detail. Keep in mind that details are always better than, "they fight", which is kind of boring and doesn't bring much excitement.

I of course agree that the fight should advance the character and the plot, but on a purely scene level, without getting into fight specifics, you can easily write the throughline of the fight. Who is on the offensive now? Who on the defensive? You don't have to write X punches Y then spins and does a kung fu kick or anything specific, but you can and should write X overpowers Y or something along those lines. You can describe the fight without using the words punch or kick.

When the fight choreographer and director approach your fight, they will ignore any 'X kicks Y' anyway and choreograph it according to their vision and the space they have and the skills of the fighters they are using. But they won't throw out important information like who is winning when and who is losing when so long as it applies to the scene. Like Y is finally on the offensive, and gains the upper hand in the fight, until X says [reveals a devasting piece of information], then he overpowers Y. That is what is of use to your choreographer and director as well as gives your reader something to visualize.