I don't think it is, but is this "Deus ex Machina"?(TWILIGHT SPOILERS)

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

WARNING: TWILIGHT SPOILERS

On this book I read, New Moon. I read the reviews since I was bored and all, but then I noticed at the end of the Book, a character(who was mentioned in chapter one) comes back and tells the MC that her vampire BF is going to commit suicide. A reviewer called it Deus ex Machina.

I also read another review for Breaking dawn, and there was also stuff in the story that some other reviewers called DEM. It's when(I don't know the ending exactly. I didn't read the book.) a character named Alice who was mentioned in the beginning but dissapeared for the duration of the book. She came back after the final battle with the bad guys and said, "Lets all just be friends." and solved the issue. There wasn't really a battle with the villains to begin with.

I know what deus ex machina is, but I don't get how Alice was DEM if she made an appearance in the beginning of the story. I thought DEM was when the author sends a guardian angel out of nowhere to save the day.

Ludka · Apr 8, 2009

It is Deus ex. Whenever someone comes along and points to the solution, that's deus ex.

For instance, a group of people struggle for an entire book to solve a problem, then suddenly, someone comes by and says, "here, use this hammer." They use the hammer, and the problem is solved. It doesn't have to be a god or angel. It can just be some random guy with all the answers.

To continue (I can't help but boliviate, I'm a teacher, after all), Weis and Hickman use gods in their stories all the time. They get involved, they point the way, but they never say "Here, do this." That would be Deus ex. Pointing the way and then standing aside while others fix the problem is just fine. Pointing out the solution is not.

Zipotes · Apr 8, 2009

I can't remember New Moon perfectly, it's been a long time since I've read it. SPOILERS A COMING:
The entire book is Bella depressed and moping about losing Edward. Then out of nowhere Alice appears and gives her some hope of a reunion (even though under bad circumstances at first).

Jennasis · Apr 8, 2009

SPOILERS:

At the end of Breaking Dawn, Alice (who is Edward's "sister" and was fairly consistent a presence throughout the book) shows up at the very moment a massive battle is about to begin and presents what is essentially the "thought-to-be-nonexistent proof" needed to stop the battle in it's tracks.

Aside from being the LAMEST, laziest, cheesiest and most unsatisfying ending I've ever encounter, it does smack heavily of DEM. Sure she was a regular character, but the resolution was not "earned" by the MC or anyone else...just handed over without explanation by a supporting character.

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

Jennasis said:
SPOILERS:

At the end of Breaking Dawn, Alice (who is Edward's "sister" and was fairly consistent a presence throughout the book) shows up at the very moment a massive battle is about to begin and presents what is essentially the "thought-to-be-nonexistent proof" needed to stop the battle in it's tracks.

Aside from being the LAMEST, laziest, cheesiest and most unsatisfying ending I've ever encounter, it does smack heavily of DEM. Sure she was a regular character, but the resolution was not "earned" by the MC or anyone else...just handed over without explanation by a supporting character.

I see. Now I understand Breaking dawn. What about new moon? How was there DEM in there?

MumblingSage · Apr 8, 2009

Not having read the books (I admit I've been actively avoiding them), I do think that was a bit of a DEM. It isn't very important that the character has showed up before; if she just hands over the solution on a platter and she is not one of the core characters (going out on a limb here, I'll assume that would be Bella, Edward, or maybe Jacob), I think that's enough of a DEM that any mitigating circumstances are negligible.

Jennasis · Apr 8, 2009

Oh God...please don't ask me to dissect New Moon. It was painful enough to read the damn thing!

It sounds as though what you were told regarding NM was when Alice has a "vision" of the future and sees Edward essentially committing suicide. That isn't DEM, it's a lazy plot device that SM relies on throughout all the books. A character who can see the future so everyone will know what to do next.

The Lonely One · Apr 8, 2009

Jennasis said:
Oh God...please don't ask me to dissect New Moon. It was painful enough to read the damn thing!

It sounds as though what you were told regarding NM was when Alice has a "vision" of the future and sees Edward essentially committing suicide. That isn't DEM, it's a lazy plot device that SM relies on throughout all the books. A character who can see the future so everyone will know what to do next.

But Alice's "the future can always change" exception to her power gets around that tricky little DEM problem, don't it?

EDIT: I've only read the first book so I don't know how it applies in the sequels.

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2009

STEP AWAY FROM THE SMEYER NOVELS, BLUE.

PUT THE TWILIGHT SAGA ON THE FLOOR AND KICK IT OVER TO ME.

KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM.

Jennasis · Apr 8, 2009

Anyone want me to start a pyre?

Jennasis · Apr 8, 2009

The Lonely One said:
But Alice's "the future can always change" exception to her power gets around that tricky little DEM problem, don't it?

EDIT: I've only read the first book so I don't know how it applies in the sequels.

Which is why I said it isn't really DEM...it's just LAZY.

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

Jennasis said:
Oh God...please don't ask me to dissect New Moon. It was painful enough to read the damn thing!
.

Sorry.

And yes I had a feeling Alice's gift was a poorly executed plot device. Especially in book one.

Red.Ink.Rain · Apr 8, 2009

So if anyone but the main character solves the problem, it's Deus Ex Machina? *is confused*

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
PUT THE TWILIGHT SAGA ON THE FLOOR AND KICK IT OVER TO ME.

.

..Take it! You can have it.

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2009

Red.Ink.Rain said:
So if anyone but the main character solves the problem, it's Deus Ex Machina? *is confused*

No, that's not the case.

"Deus ex Machina" translates as "god from machine" - in other words, a god-like being stepping in and magically wrapping everything up at the last minute with no intervention from any of the characters.

For instance: HERE IS A SPOILER FOR A BOOK I AM WELL-KNOWN FOR HATING:
Jodi Picoult's My Sister's Keeper ends with a motor accident killing off one of the sisters so the other can use her organs. DEM right there. And I hate Picoult for it.
END SPOILER

Delhomeboy · Apr 8, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
No, that's not the case.

"Deus ex Machina" translates as "god from machine" - in other words, a god-like being stepping in and magically wrapping everything up at the last minute with no intervention from any of the characters.

For instance: HERE IS A SPOILER FOR A BOOK I AM WELL-KNOWN FOR HATING
END SPOILER

You know, peaches, you seem to have an active and probably unhealthy hatred for any writer who makes a literary gaffe. What is the root of this affliction, I wonder?

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2009

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Phew.

Better now.

Delhomeboy · Apr 8, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Phew.

Better now.

Yep, yep. Definitely unhealthy.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 8, 2009

I have matches.

The Lonely One · Apr 8, 2009

Wait, are we getting together for a good ol' fashion book burning?

*puts on fireman's helmet.

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2009

Try not to get YET ANOTHER BLOODY SMEYER THREAD locked while I'm tidying up my living room and then cooking dinner.

I'll be back in around half an hour. Don't make the mods come in here.

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

Don't burn it, return it.

But really, take it easy on the bashing. I don't want to get into trouble.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Apr 8, 2009

Too late. Too late. We're already here.

BlueLucario · Apr 8, 2009

Guys. Seriously, take it easy.

The Lonely One · Apr 8, 2009

Hey, I didn't say we had to burn THAT book.

*grumbles. I never get to wear the fireman's helmet...

OK to put this thread back on track: how about comparing similar examples of "close-to-DEM" to the Alice plot device? I'm curious because I think I encounter that mechanism more in lower-tier television shows than in literature.

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