Left at the altar...would they chase after her?

Barb D · Apr 6, 2009

This is NOT historical fact, but the setting is 1526.

Cast of characters:

An insane prince with things other than marriage preoccupying his thoughts
A princess from another country, who REALLY doesn't want to marry him
The guy she's really in love with, who she has just found out is also a prince, and who will end up taking over Prince #1's country anyway.

The princess runs away with Prince #2. She leaves a note for her family members not to come after her because he has an army and she won't come anyway. Her family knows that #2 is a prince, and they like him better than #1.

Who, if anyone, would come after her? The family of the insane prince (who are also somewhat preoccupied with his insanity)? Her family? Or would they just let her go?

Lyra Jean · Apr 6, 2009

Does the Princess' family know that prince #2 will be taking over prince #1 kingdom?

Which is a better economical match for the princess' family prince #1 or prince #2? Marriages during this time were more for economical gain than anything else.

If no one goes after her or the princess leaving Prince #1 for Prince #2 is not integral to the plot why not just marry her off to prince #2 to start off with.
Also it could be that her own family might come after her just for the fact that they disobeyed their orders in running away from Prince #1 and they will not care if Prince #2 is better for the princess or the family. She's the daughter and she will obey.

I hope this helps.

TheIT · Apr 6, 2009

Would the insane prince or the insane prince's family be offended by the rejection? Being jilted could lead to loss of face or damage the family's political reputation. They might go after her to salvage their pride and to make an example of her.

Also, what were the terms of the marriage contract between her and prince #1? If the marriage was to seal an alliance or prevent a war, her leaving him at the altar would blow those plans out of the water. Her own family probably would not be very happy with her.

Barb D · Apr 6, 2009

rosemerry said:
Does the Princess' family know that prince #2 will be taking over prince #1 kingdom?

No. But they (her brother and cousin) can see that #1 is insane and that #2 is a better man and more powerful. Her parents back in her country won't be pleased, though.

Which is a better economical match for the princess' family prince #1 or prince #2? Marriages during this time were more for economical gain than anything else.

In the long run, #2. But they did make the deal with #1.

If no one goes after her or the princess leaving Prince #1 for Prince #2 is not integral to the plot why not just marry her off to prince #2 to start off with.

There's more to the story.

Also it could be that her own family might come after her just for the fact that they disobeyed their orders in running away from Prince #1 and they will not care if Prince #2 is better for the princess or the family. She's the daughter and she will obey.

This is what I'm worried about. It's convenient for my purposes just to let her go, but if that's not the way it would have worked I feel that I need to have her brother and cousin make SOME effort to go after her. Even though the know she's probably better off with #2 any way. And even though they know they'll have to face her parents when they get home.

I hope this helps.

Lots!

TheIT said:
Would the insane prince or the insane prince's family be offended by the rejection? Being jilted could lead to loss of face or damage the family's political reputation. They might go after her to salvage their pride and to make an example of her.

They have a lot of drama of their own going on. In fact, they may even have forgotten that she was coming.

Also, what were the terms of the marriage contract between her and prince #1? If the marriage was to seal an alliance or prevent a war, her leaving him at the altar would blow those plans out of the water. Her own family probably would not be very happy with her.

#1's family has worse problems (murder, betrayal, insanity, the possibility of war with #2) to worry about. I think they may be more inclined to let her go -- or to not be able to have the attention and resources to go after her.

Lyra Jean · Apr 6, 2009

I thought there might be but I've come across some writers, not saying you are this at all, who would have that happen because they need a hook to get the reader's attention and then it never comes up again. So, basically there was no point in the event happening.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 7, 2009

Just my two cents. I'm a newb, keep that in mind.

I imagine Prince the Crazy would go after her because if he was going to marry her, there would have been a contract and it would be breeched by Princess the Fair running away with Prince the Second. Plus, Crazy would have a ton of face to save. They were all about that.

PastMidnight · Apr 7, 2009

OpheliaRevived said:
I imagine Prince the Crazy would go after her because if he was going to marry her, there would have been a contract and it would be breeched by Princess the Fair running away with Prince the Second. Plus, Crazy would have a ton of face to save. They were all about that.

Or send underlings. He wouldn't want to be seen chasing after her like a lovesick schoolboy.

I'm trying to think of all those instances when members of the royal family married without the king's/queen's consent. Doesn't everyone just sort of throw up their hands amid noises of disgust and then forbid them to return to court? Or were there really instances of the disobedient princess being dragged back to face her intended? I would cast my vote for no one caring that much. Her family might have to publicly disinherit her to save face and I'd guess that Prince #1 would just consider it good riddance to bad rubbish. Find himself another princess.

Soccer Mom · Apr 7, 2009

Anyone else have Princess Bride flashbacks? (Mawage is what bwings us togever.)

Realistically? Her family would fetch her back and force her to do her duty. Daughters were chattel. They wouldn't give a squat about a "better" match. If she was under marital contract, they would damn well enforce it unless given a legal out. That could happen if Prince #1 is insane. But only if Prince #2 was a better match politically for them.

shokadh · Apr 7, 2009

Soccer Mom said:
Anyone else have Princess Bride flashbacks? (Mawage is what bwings us togever.)

Realistically? Her family would fetch her back and force her to do her duty. Daughters were chattel. They wouldn't give a squat about a "better" match. If she was under marital contract, they would damn well enforce it unless given a legal out. That could happen if Prince #1 is insane. But only if Prince #2 was a better match politically for them.

*My name is Inigio Montoya. You keeled my fadder. Preepare to die...*

OpheliaRevived · Apr 8, 2009

Deffinately would send an underling -- again with the face saving. Feh.

SoccerMom has a point, too. If the girl were to try to breech the contract, there'd be heck to pay not just for her, but her entire family. For people that "high ranking"in the Peerage, court wasn't just a social thing, it was serious business.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 8, 2009

Why isn't there a coffee spitting smilie????

angeliz2k · Apr 8, 2009

Alright, this may be confusing, but here goes.

Who exactly knows that The Artist Formerly Known as Prince 2 is going to take over Prince Crazy's country? Is it inevitable?

If it's inevitable (or even LIKELY) that The Artist Formerly Known as Prince 2 will become ruler, then Princess Buttercup's--or Princess Whoever's--family should ditch Prince Crazy. Saving face would take a definite back seat to allying their daughter with the right person. Prince Crazy is going to be dropped like a hot potato if he's out of his head. And if there's even the possibility that someone else might win his place, then he's up shit's creek. His family would try to hold Princess Buttercup to the agreement with Prince Crazy, but there are ways to get out of that kind of thing. So, if The Artist Formerly Known as Prince 2 is going to get the country, even if it's likely, then Princess B and the family would jump ship. Prince Crazy ends up locked in a tower. [See Henry VI or the Earl of Warwick for example.]

If it's NOT inevitable, then probably one of several things might happen.
-Princess Buttercup's family recalls her in high dudgeon and she's forced to marry Prince Crazy because 1) the family promised it and must save face and 2) engagements and any negotiations were taken VERY seriously; even a hint of "precontract" could be grounds for anullment of a later marriage (e.g. to TAFK as Prince 2).
-Prince Crazy's family gets really really angry and conflict (even a war) ensues.
-TAFK as Prince 2 fights to keep Princess B. Conflict (even a war) ensues between him and the angry, allied families of Princess B and Prince Crazy. Princess B's family wants their property/daughter back. Prince Crazy and family want their property/bride back.

Just out of curiosity, are Prince Crazy and TAFKA Prince 2 related?

What kind of time period is this set in? Are we talking medieval? Renaissance? Dark Ages? What I'm describing would be pretty true during these periods, but the dynamics would be different a little later in time.

And exactly how Machiavellian do you feel?

Barb D · Apr 8, 2009

angeliz2k said:
Alright, this may be confusing, but here goes.

Who exactly knows that The Artist Formerly Known as Prince 2 is going to take over Prince Crazy's country? Is it inevitable?

Nobody knows for sure that it's going to happen (although #2 told the plan to Princess, and she told her family -- but they don't know that it's true.) They see how whacked #1 is, and how double-whacked his family situation is. But then I'm looking at this from a rational 21st century feminist viewpoint.

-Prince Crazy's family gets really really angry and conflict (even a war) ensues.
-TAFK as Prince 2 fights to keep Princess B. Conflict (even a war) ensues between him and the angry, allied families of Princess B and Prince Crazy. Princess B's family wants their property/daughter back. Prince Crazy and family want their property/bride back.

There's going to be a war anyway, with or without the whole Princess drama.

Just out of curiosity, are Prince Crazy and TAFKA Prince 2 related?

No. And when they met she fell in love with him while not knowing he was a prince (and while delaying her trip to the wedding with #1.)

What kind of time period is this set in? Are we talking medieval? Renaissance? Dark Ages? What I'm describing would be pretty true during these periods, but the dynamics would be different a little later in time.

1526. Princess is from an imaginary country (an island in the Bay of Biscay, near the border of France and Spain.) Prince #1 is from Denmark, and Prince #2 from Norway. (As stated in post #1 this is not historically accurate. It's an alternate reality.)

And exactly how Machiavellian do you feel?

Not at all.

Barb D · Apr 8, 2009

Soccer Mom said:
Anyone else have Princess Bride flashbacks? (Mawage is what bwings us togever.).

Aaaaaasssss youuuuuuuuu wiiiiiiiiiiiish....

Actually, my son has made me promise NOT to include any references to The Princess Bride.

WildScribe · Apr 8, 2009

If she's running away, she should be escorted away by Prince 2 after getting a nice, quickie wedding somewhere in town. She would be more or less disowned by her family, but since Catholicism is likely here, the marriage to P2 is binding and un-doable after they've...uh... done it.

Stlight · Apr 21, 2009

Just an aside, but who taught the princess to write?

I'm on the love has nothing to do with marriage in 1526, especially royal marriages. I'm also thinking Prince #1 would do everything he could to get her back. Her running away is an insult to his masculinity, and even 21st century men don't take that sort of thing well.

ETA: Prince #1 may well believe that a widow can make a wife.

dirtsider · Apr 22, 2009

Besides the fact that the Princess' family would want to return her to Prince Crazy in order to keep face/family honor (especially since it seems no one is certain that Prince 2 will actually take over from Prince Crazy), I would think Prince 2 would want someone in Prince Crazy's court as a spy. So he might ask the Princess to go through the charade of potentially marrying Prince Crazy and feed him all the intel she could.

Or, depending on whether or not the Princess has met Prince Crazy, she could simply send one of her ladies-in-waiting in her place and hightail it out of Dodge. I recall one of the reasons King Henry VIII didn't marry one of the later potential brides was because the real woman didn't match up with her portrait which caught his attention.....

Barb D · Apr 22, 2009

I've resolved this. Since my MCs are time travelers, one of them does know that Prince 2 ends up with Prince 1's kingdom, and advises her family to let her go. (Her brother and cousin know about the time traveling.) Prince 1 has just committed a murder and is certifiably insane, so he and his family are too preoccupied to care.

I need the princess actually married to Prince #2 to carry another plot forward, and I don't really need her after that... so off she goes to live happily ever after. The rest of the cast, not so much.

Soccer Mom · Apr 22, 2009

But their only "mostly dead", right?

Sorry.

Best. Movie. Evah!

Cyia · Apr 22, 2009

It doesn't actually matter if Prince 1 is insane. Insane royals still married and procreated (or someone did the procreating on their behalf). It also doesn't matter if he committed cold blooded murder at high noon on Easter Sunday in the city square. None of the witnesses saw him.

If she's got a marriage contract with Prince 1, then:

a: she would be forced to follow through because not only is it a slap in the face to the nutjob, but it also means that anyone allied with nutjob's family is honor bound to help him out.

b: prince 2 basically just declared war on prince 1 and unless prince 1's allies all desert him he's got a problem on his hands.

The only possible ways out of this would be for Prince 1's family to kill him, which is possible if he's a problem for the family reputation. Someone to go after princess-needs-a-brain and either bring her back kicking and screaming (wouldn't matter if she did). They would either decry her as a whore, if the marriage to prince 2 was consummated and cast her aside or kill her. OR possibly, spin it that Prince 2 took her against her will - this would put both prince 1 and the reluctant bride in the best light.

Lyra Jean · Apr 22, 2009

dirtsider said:
Besides the fact that the Princess' family would want to return her to Prince Crazy in order to keep face/family honor (especially since it seems no one is certain that Prince 2 will actually take over from Prince Crazy), I would think Prince 2 would want someone in Prince Crazy's court as a spy. So he might ask the Princess to go through the charade of potentially marrying Prince Crazy and feed him all the intel she could.

Or, depending on whether or not the Princess has met Prince Crazy, she could simply send one of her ladies-in-waiting in her place and hightail it out of Dodge. I recall one of the reasons King Henry VIII didn't marry one of the later potential brides was because the real woman didn't match up with her portrait which caught his attention.....

Apparently she had the face of a horse. It probably saved her life. Didn't they come up with some ruse that they were too closely related to get married but she stayed there and he took care of her needs?

dirtsider · Apr 23, 2009

I did think they came up with some sort of ruse.

pdr · Apr 23, 2009

If you are writing...

historical fantasy in the form of SF/Fantasy or in the Romance genre then you can do what you like.

If, however, you wish to be true to 1526, then you have little choice.

A princess was a pawn in her father's and family's political manoeuvrings. Her marriage was a matter of national importance and an occasion for the nation to show off. What she wanted was of no import whatsoever. Her marriage could be to an insane prince, but it was about alliances, money, political position and power.

If she tried to do a bunk she would be severely punished. If she succeeded she would be hunted down and executed. After all she was now a princess with a reputation and therefor no longer of value and therefore expendable!

angeliz2k · Apr 24, 2009

dirtsider said:
I did think they came up with some sort of ruse.

I can't recall which, but it was either non-consumation (she was just so damned repulsive that he, er, couldn't get it up . . . ) or precontract (I think it might be this, but Anne of Cleves, poor thing, was brought up more strictly than a nun, so it's hard to imagine where they'd find a precontract).

ETA: According to Wikipedia, I was right: it was non-consumation. VERY humiliating for Henry. Remember, Cromwell lost his head for this mistake. Anne was given the title of "king's sister" and lived pretty happily thereafter.

pdr · Apr 24, 2009

I do dislike...

Wikipedia.

Try this:
http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/cleves.html

If I remember my history lessons correctly Anne of Cleves arrived in England already betrothed. That Holbein portrait made her look younger and pretty, thus acceptable to the disease ridden King.

She arrived with little English, a heavy accent, and almost straight into the formal marriage ceremony. I understood there was no attempt to consumate the marriage as Henry couldn't stand the sight of her and I expect the feeling was mutual!

She had the sense to agree to an annulment almost immediately and Henry handed her land and houses as a pension.

Left at the altar...would they chase after her?

Two years old now.

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Two years old now.

Real Men Have Gills

Oponionated

Crypto-fascist

Now serving Table for 300

Real Men Have Gills

Real Men Have Gills

never mind the shorty

Slave to the Wordcount

ideas are floating where they will

Not so new, really

Crypto-fascist

Rewriting My Destiny

Two years old now.

Not so new, really

never mind the shorty