Define "Info Dumping"

OpheliaRevived · Apr 6, 2009

.... and how to avoid it, or fix it when you identify it in your own work.

scarletpeaches · Apr 6, 2009

It's when an author tells the reader everything he knows about a subject, whether it serves the story or not.

Me? I don't do it. Ever.

It's evil.

CaroGirl · Apr 6, 2009

I, a woman with 2 children, 2 dogs, and a husband, dressed as I am in brown corduroy trousers and a cream cardigan and sitting in front of my work computer, staring at grey cubicle walls as blank and boring as thick fog, shall attempt to answer your question.

What do you mean you don't need to know that much about me before I answer your question?

Sirion · Apr 6, 2009

Saying more than what is relative to the plot, and all at once.

"As You Know Bobs" are its ugly cousin.

-Travis

OpheliaRevived · Apr 6, 2009

So...

(And forgive me, I'm just a newb)... does this necessarily apply to the Villain telling his side of the story, sort of in the old tradition of the "telling of the master plan"?

scarletpeaches · Apr 6, 2009

Depends. Who is he telling the story to? His mortal enemy? In which case I would say "Shut up with the story telling and get on with the killing!"

And please, don't have him tell the story to someone who already knows it, just for the benefit of the reader. As TTCleveland says, "As you know, Bob," dialogue is the info-dump's ugly cousin.

(I was gonna say that in my earlier post and wish I had now).

geardrops · Apr 6, 2009

OpheliaRevived said:
(And forgive me, I'm just a newb)... does this necessarily apply to the Villain telling his side of the story, sort of in the old tradition of the "telling of the master plan"?

Not entirely, but that's part of it.

Infodumping is more like... instead of allowing the information to come up organically in the story, the reader is lectured.

Example: You have a magic system. It's relatively complex. Instead of explaining it bit by bit, as its used, you set down and spend three pages dropping the whole thing on the reader's head. That's an infodump.

FennelGiraffe · Apr 6, 2009

Mention only 10% (or less!) of what you, as author, know about the backstory of your characters and the setting, history, magic system, geography, genealogy, language, politics, etc. of your story.

Sprinkle information lightly, in tiny tidbits, throughout the story.

Step away from the keyboard immediately whenever you feel tempted to:
- Set up a situation
- Explain background
- Introduce (write an introduction for) a character

fancie · Apr 6, 2009

FennelGiraffe said:
Mention only 10% (or less!) of what you, as author, know about the backstory of your characters and the setting, history, magic system, geography, genealogy, language, politics, etc. of your story.

Sprinkle information lightly, in tiny tidbits, throughout the story.

Step away from the keyboard immediately whenever you feel tempted to:
- Set up a situation
- Explain background
- Introduce (write an introduction for) a character

Thanks, this helps me with my work. *sigh* One more thing to add to the editing of this draft.

blacbird · Apr 6, 2009

Infodumping is often generated by a mistaken belief on the part of the writer that the reader needs to know way more background stuff than he really does need, or want, to know. It is the territory where "less is more" applies most fully.

caw

TheIT · Apr 6, 2009

For your amusement and edification: The Turkey City Lexicon, as referenced in the "Learn Writing With Uncle Jim" thread in the Novels forum:

http://www.critters.org/turkeycity.html

Info dumping is also a symptom of world-builder's disease, or "I suffered for my art and now it's your turn". Just because the author came up with some nifty piece of backstory doesn't mean that it needs to be part of the narrative.

shokadh · Apr 6, 2009

Info-dumping comes all at once, in several long paragraphs, (or more) as background information, set-up, history, etc, that drags down the pacing in the story. If the info is vital to the plot, I've found I can sprinkle it in gradually and keep the intended flavor while not overburdening the reader with lengthy details that bore them to sleep.

ccarver30 · Apr 6, 2009

I did that in my first draft (of 2 novels, actually) and had to cut out the first few paragraphs.

maestrowork · Apr 6, 2009

OpheliaRevived said:
(And forgive me, I'm just a newb)... does this necessarily apply to the Villain telling his side of the story, sort of in the old tradition of the "telling of the master plan"?

That's called monologuing. They made fun of that in The Incredibles.

Infodumping basically is when the author explains too much whether the readers like it or not just to reveal information, or jumps into long exposition just to reveal information, or has the "as you know Bob" dialogue just to.... you guess it, reveal information.

kikilynn · Apr 6, 2009

Im worried I may have some infodumping. What if it's say my MC's mom, explaining her how their town came to exist? Would it be okay to pour out the story, or have several different people tell her it over time?

maestrowork · Apr 6, 2009

kikilynn said:
Im worried I may have some infodumping. What if it's say my MC's mom, explaining her how their town came to exist? Would it be okay to pour out the story, or have several different people tell her it over time?

Is it relevant?

Why do the readers need to know?

Why at that moment?

How much do they need to know at the time?

Why is the mother telling the history of the town?

Does it advance the plot, develop the characters, or strengthen the themes?

Is it okay if the information isn't there, or told some other time, or told in bits and pieces?

mscelina · Apr 6, 2009

Infodumping for me as a writer ends up being the first few pages/chapters that I write in order to write my way into the story. Everyone has a natural tendency to want to set the stage, so to speak, and the infodump allows you to do that. It's information that happens before the beginning of the story--like character history, description, establishing your fictional world (for spec fic etc.), creating the situation and so forth.

Just keep in mind that everything you do must forward the plot of the story and it should be easier to avoid huge infodumps. The majority of the information you'll be able to sneak into action or dialogue instead of pages and pages of information. It's a hard lesson to learn when you're just starting out.

kikilynn · Apr 6, 2009

I am completely unsure whether I've infodumped or not. What's said is pertinent to the story. It explains the villians motives. I just don't know how else to put the information in there. HELP!

Matera the Mad · Apr 6, 2009

Post in SYW. The hounds will howl if you have dumped.

kikilynn · Apr 6, 2009

Did as suggested. Thanks.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 7, 2009

[QUOTEI suffered for my art and now it's your turn][/QUOTE]

LOL!

OpheliaRevived · Apr 7, 2009

Kikilyn:

I'm in the same boat.

bonitakale · Apr 7, 2009

Heinlein used to do the greatest info dumps -- backwards! He'd explain something about us -- the past -- and that would clue us in to how the future is different. It wasn't boring because, hey, it was about us! I remember one book (possibly The Rolling Stones?) in which he describes with horror the internal combustion engine and the cars it powered.

OTOH, a really horrible info dump may be only a sentence or two long. It's that feeling of the author pretending not to talk to the reader while really doing so that's the clue.

"Uh, but he's a Master Wizard, right?"
"Yes."
"So, if he touches me, I turn to dust?"
"That's right. Go, to it boy, and keep out of range!"

is not an info dump.

"Uh, but he's a Master Wizard, right?"
"Yes."
"So, what does that mean, exactly?"
"Well, there are three orders of wizards. The Postulants enter the academy at seventeen. . . . " etc., etc.

is an info dump.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 7, 2009

I may need another pointer:

Towards the end of "Korsikov", my wip, the antagonist, Lord Hythe, explains to the reader why he had to seek out revenge on his own daughter and her childhood friend. This information is given right before he decides to go kidnap his estranged daughter. Most of the information is an explanation of events that are happening paralell with the events the reader sees in the story. The things he tells the reader in his section were *meant* to give the ending more richness, and help the reader actually sympathize with him. In this book, nothing is really the way you originally see it.

Sometimes I think it would make a better screenplay.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 7, 2009

Just as dawn broke, Conrath pushed his boat into the water, and, through the early-morning fog, quietly paddled down the Paras, which fed into the Rio Moreno, which was itself part of the tributary system for the Amazon River. The Upper Amazon has a series of major river systems in Peru and Ecuador, some of which flow into the Marañón and others directly into the Amazon proper. Among others, these include the following rivers: Morona, Pastaza, Nucuray, Urituyacu, Chambira, Tigre, Nanay, Napo, Huallaga, and Ucayali. The headstreams of the Marañón—which for many years had been seen as the origin of the Amazon—flow from high above central Peru's Lake Lauricocha, from the glaciers in what is known as the Nevado de Yarupa. Rushing through waterfalls and gorges in an area of the high jungle called the pongos, the Marañón River flows about 1,600 kilometres (1,000 mi) from west-central to northeast Peru before it combines with the Ucayali River, just below the provincial town of Nauta, to form the Amazon River.

An infodump makes the reader feel like he is studying for the final.

Here is the rule: Never tell the reader something before he cares about it.

Define "Info Dumping"

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