Sexualized Violence

unless in violation of an existing law, let the market decide.

You lost me with the mods. That's akin to reading a Harry Potter fanfic about Hermione giving Dumbledore a blowjob, and then demanding that all Harry Potter books be banned.

I'm not familiar with the games, but if any of the characters are underage, then it's illegal. Otherwise, it's disgusting, but legal.

When porn is outlawed, only outlaws will have porn.

Let's give the underground another illicit product to sell so we can start a War on Porn.

AMCrenshaw said:

I agree. And I don't think laws would prevent it anyway. It would merely become a new kind of market, after all.

AMC

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As soon as it comes to exploitation or demonstrated violence toward women, we never need laws, the justification being that the black market would undermine any deterrent.

But of course, over half the country doesn't say that about heroin. . . or for that matter, all those male sired minors.

I've been through this so many times. It's all so hypocritical to me. Big free speech advocates that can't hold their end up in their personal lives, but there they are: when it comes to violence toward women, suddenly it's a first amendment issue, and oh well: it's just women after all. But these same people have no problem with abortion: it's horrible; they hate it. But if half those babies wind up women with the tacit O.K. that they're raped - well, no law against that. What a joke.

AMCrenshaw said:

At what point do these video games become pornography? What influence do these games have on shaping young teenagers' mindsets, specifically concerning the sexual objectification of women? Through this influence, do these video games, enjoyed by impressionable minds, infringe on women's rights indirectly?

AMC

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At the same point that, you know, books, television shows, movies, or any form of entertainment created by humans for other humans.

You also may want to gain some education on the average age of a gamer- according to the usa article on the E3 findings, it's 29.

Clearly not the impressionable youth you had imagined.

The truth is video games are no more or less of a social demon than hip hop, comic books, movies, books, or anything else.

How many males create the demand for it is the most startling part of the equation. If it were all black market, the effect of that thought on a girl's psyche is almost the same.

That Rapelay game is especially stomach-turning. I didn't see it mentioned whether it's illegal in the US, etc, but with the two little girls, I'd assume so. I wonder if it's also illegal in Japan (it's Japanese)?

If we're talking illegal disturbing things on the internet, you haven't seen anything yet.
What people enjoy out there disturbs me terribly, yes.

whistlelock said:

The truth is video games are no more or less of a social demon than hip hop, comic books, movies, books, or anything else.

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or the evening news. precisely.

Okay, I'll level with you guys. This is going to be...a bit of a rant about sexuality and video games and violence! Suitably warned, head on.



I have done some weirdass shit on the internet. I've written bizarre sexual stories. I've looked at pictures, watched movies, played games. I've been doing this since I was 16, gradually getting deeper and deeper into the various communities of the fetishistic on the internet.

I've played non-sexual video games since I was 14.

My brother has played games since he was 14.

So have THOUSANDS of other people.

And to those who think MODERN games are any more violent, sexual, or adult than previous games...hahahahahahahaha, you really need to learn your video game history.

For example...

Fallout is considered by many to be one of the best games of all time. Its got gore, cussing, violence, and sexuality coming out of its ears. Fallout 2 has even MORE. But ask any gamer what they remember most about the games, its NOT going to be the fact that when you shoot someone with a plasma cannon, their skin melts off.

Its going to be the story, the characters, and the amazingly atmospheric gameplay. Its gonna be Dogmeat, or the time that I played a character with 1 luck and the Jinxed special ability (made battles more similar to Three Stooges movies than anything else.)

Now, going away from violence and back to the sex...

As I have said, I have played, watched, read, written and talked about a LOT of perverted stuff. And guess what?

I'm one of the nicest, most gentlemanly people out there, if I do say so myself. And some of the nicest people I've met on the internet are people out there looking for porn.

Do you want to know why?

BECAUSE ITS NOT REAL!

That's something a lot of people seem to forget: 99% of everyone on this planet has a very VERY well defined line between reality and non-reality.

Kids are not STUPID! They know a difference between a bunch of polygons and their girlfriends. And if they DON'T, then I'm going to suggest that there is something wrong somewhere in the parenting.

My parents were very firm about how to treat women and men. How to be polite. How to not objectify people. How there is a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REALITY AND FANTASY!

I have gotten some heat before for admitting that, yes, I have rape fantasies. But that's cause people seem to get stuck up on the "rape" part and fail to remember the second word "Fantasy"

And actually, I only have them *occasionally*, when I'm in a dark, non-romantic mood. Most of my porn is, ya know, romantic porn. Why? Cause, MOST people like to see two people in love doing things what people in love do...just some people like the two people to have cat ears or tentacles.

And you know what? That's fine.

What other people do in their spare time is not our business, and we have no moral grounds to think less of them.

So, speaking as a bisexual crossdressing sub/dom furry transexual, take your moral high horse and shove it up your ass.

AMCrenshaw said:

The mod was made by the creators of the game. I'm not talking about banning anything, please note. Neither does Harry Potter include or endorse sexualized violence. The question also includes or should include-- what message does this send to children?

I am, to be sure, all about freedom of expression. But is this "freedom" oppressive?

AMC

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You're talking about a certain topic being too bad for society as a whole -- too oppressive. Where else would you be going with it?

And also, GRAND THEFT AUTO IS NOT FOR IMMATURE MINDS!

My mom only let me play games when I was old enough to play them. No, not old enough...mature enough.

Cause I have met some kids who are totally ready to 'handle' more adult games...and I've met some adults who woulden't know mature storytelling if it came up AND BIT THEM IN THE ASS!

I don't think it's the 99% of people who know these things are fake that are the ones causing the problem. It's that 1% who thinks the tiny men on the TV are giving them their day's itenerary. Or the ones who get obsessed to the point that they can't tell their real lives from their gaming lives. Just like it's not the majority of society who breaks the law in violent depraved ways.

But, you have to take into consideration that simulation is a standard method of training in most military organizations for a reason. Just like simulation comes before the real thing in taking flying lessons. People are creatures of habit and they function off learned behaviors. If a person does nothing but sit in front of a screen and play violent games, then they can develop a more violent personality because it's what they're used to. (I don't mean someone who spends an hour or two with his buddies, I mean the people who nothing else.)

Zoombie said:

What other people do in their spare time is not our business, and we have no moral grounds to think less of them.

So, speaking as a bisexual crossdressing sub/dom furry transexual, take your moral high horse and shove it up your ass.

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Well, O.K. Unless somebody like you has a - um - fantasy and a few drinks, and for reasons maybe only you can explain, shoves it up yours.

Cyia said:

But, you have to take into consideration that simulation is a standard method of training in most military organizations for a reason. Just like simulation comes before the real thing in taking flying lessons. People are creatures of habit and they function off learned behaviors. If a person does nothing but sit in front of a screen and play violent games, then they can develop a more violent personality because it's what they're used to. (I don't mean someone who spends an hour or two with his buddies, I mean the people who nothing else.)

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Playing Quake will prepare you for violence as effectively as looking at water will teach you how to pilot a naval vessel.

AMCrenshaw said:

At what point do these video games become pornography?

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When someone jacks off to them.

Through this influence, do these video games, enjoyed by impressionable minds, infringe on women's rights indirectly?

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Which woman's rights in particular do these video games infringe upon?

Also, I'd like to point out that some of the BEST written and most multidimensional female characters are to be found in the video game market.

Alyx, from Half Life 2. Annah from Planescape Torment. Pretty much every single female member of your party in Baulder's Gate. And, lets not forget, GlaDOS and Chell from Portal.

To a lesser extent, one would say that Ash Williams from Mass Effect is a multidimensional female character, or Alex D. from Deus Ex: Invisible War.

Mr. Chuckletrousers said:

When someone jacks off to them.

Which woman's rights in particular do these video games infringe upon?

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Equal rights??

Bird of Prey said:

Equal rights??

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No, I meant which woman had her rights infringed upon? Also, how are her equal rights infringed upon by this?

Mr. Chuckletrousers said:

No, I meant which woman had her rights infringed upon? Also, how are her equal rights infringed upon by this?

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I don't know. If there's a video game with a fantasy lynching, ask a black guy if it infringes on his rights, you know, to walk down the street without watching his back.

Bird of Prey said:

I don't know. If there's a video game with a fantasy lynching, ask a black guy if it infringes on his rights, you know, to walk down the street without watching his back.

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It wouldn't infringe on any of his rights, unless somehow he in particular were depicted as being the lynched person.

No one has the right to walk down the street without having to watch their back.

Mr. Chuckletrousers said:

It wouldn't infringe on any of his rights, unless somehow he in particular were depicted as being the lynched person.

No one has the right to walk down the street without having to watch their back.

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Don't you mean everyone has a right to walk down the street without having to watch their back? The right to live in society without fear is a basic one, and one laws are *supposed* to back-up.

But you're right, gross depictions in video games don't infringe a person's rights anymore than satire does, though both can be disturbing. A character in a video game doesn't keep me from being able to exercise any of my legal rights no matter how heinous I find it.