I'm writing a novel and I have a few questions...

XxEvWingsxX · Apr 3, 2009

So I was looking around on this site, did a few clicking and reading and I found very useful information that could help in improving my writing. However, some things I really could not quite comprehend and I need a little more explaining, say for example:

What are the screen play methods and silent movie methods in writing? (I've tried Google-but I only get screen writing-not much help) Somewhere I read that those methods should be used in writing stories, but I got lost in it.

And what is the "voice" that publishers look for in a manuscript? What does that mean?

And are there ways to come out of a plot-hole?

I seem to keep falling in them...

Finally my last question, what is a Motif? and what do they mean by "the book has a great theme?" Is it like the plot or something?

Well, thanks for reading this, I appreciate all the help this site has to offer. ^_^

gothicangel · Apr 4, 2009

Not sure about the screen-writing/silent movie thing.

1. Voice is about the way your book is written and it is unique to yourself. The only way to discover it is to write and write and write.

2. Plot holes occur when two plot points don't meet and can be ripped to shreds. More of a super glue than a ladder issue I'm afraid!

3. Theme isn't plot. Plot is what happens; theme is what the story is about.

XxEvWingsxX · Apr 4, 2009

Wow, thanks for the tips. I'm starting to get it now, ha ha. Yeah that whole screen movie method thing was confusing but oh well, you learn new things everyday.

miles · Apr 4, 2009

XxEvWingsxX said:
What are the screen play methods and silent movie methods in writing? (I've tried Google-but I only get screen writing-not much help) Somewhere I read that those methods should be used in writing stories, but I got lost in it.

I could be wrong, but most likely this has to do with showing versus telling--making images come alive in the reader's mind as if they're watching a movie.

There's plenty of discussion here about that:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=11644231

ChaosTitan · Apr 4, 2009

Screenplay methods could refer to using the basic screenwriting structure when plotting your novel. Screenplays are typically written in three acts, which each act serving a specific purpose in the telling of the story.

The screenwriting forum will have more info on those structures.

maestrowork · Apr 4, 2009

Screenplays are all about show. Everything has to be shown through scenes, actions, dialogue, settings, etc. No dipping into the characters' mind (well, except in silent movie mode when you can do it via narration, or in screenplay mode by using Voice Over). It's kind of like the 3rd Object/Camera view point.

Screenplays also usually follow a structure (3 acts, 4 acts, inciting incidents, build-up, climax, denouement, etc.) that can help shape a novel. Also techniques such as jump cuts, cross-cutting, flashbacks, non-linear chronology, etc. They can be effectively applied to novels as well.

gothicangel · Apr 4, 2009

I have to say I used to struggle with the difference between story and plot; I think the best way I can explain it is with my WIP. My plot is a kidnap plot; but the story/theme is revenge.

Hope that helps!

dawinsor · Apr 4, 2009

A motif is usually an image that recurs throughout the story.

A theme is the deep topic your plot brings to life. A theme can be as short as a single word (honor) or a phrase (parental love) or a sentence (love conquers all).

JasonChirevas · Apr 6, 2009

gothicangel said:
I have to say I used to struggle with the difference between story and plot; I think the best way I can explain it is with my WIP. My plot is a kidnap plot; but the story/theme is revenge.

Hope that helps!

The plot is the canvas.
The characters are the paints.
The story is the painting.

-Jason

XxEvWingsxX · Apr 6, 2009

Wow thanks so much for that, all this info is very helpful! ^_^

XxEvWingsxX · Apr 6, 2009

miles said:
I could be wrong, but most likely this has to do with showing versus telling--making images come alive in the reader's mind as if they're watching a movie.

There's plenty of discussion here about that:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/search.php?searchid=11644231

I clicked the link but it does not work. :/

miles · Apr 6, 2009

XxEvWingsxX said:
I clicked the link but it does not work. :/

Just click the search button and type "showing versus telling"

8thSamurai · Apr 28, 2009

The 'voice' is the way you write a book - a distinctive way of writing a story that's unique to you. (A few writers can pull off more than one - usually in different genres). Plots are pretty universal, so a publisher or agent is looking for someone who tells the story in a different way - flavor, if you will.

Plot holes usually show up when you haven't figured out the why of something. Take a step back, and see if there's something you forgot to write.

Charlie Horse · Apr 28, 2009

Not to sound like a grumpy sour puss, but aside from educating yourself on all these various methods and such, realize that it's all a lot of blah, blah, blah, then get down and write your effin' novel. That's how you find your voice, your plot will emerge, and your story will unfold. After that revise and write some more. Then, guess what...more writing and revising. If you have the desire to be a writer this will be your life.

The rest is all semantics.

Maryn · Apr 28, 2009

Charlie Horse said:
The rest is all semantics.

What if she's anti-semantic?

Maryn, unable to resist stupid puns

XxEvWingsxX · Dec 4, 2009

What is semantic? @_@

Anahid21 · Dec 4, 2009

Charlie Horse said:
Not to sound like a grumpy sour puss, but aside from educating yourself on all these various methods and such, realize that it's all a lot of blah, blah, blah, then get down and write your effin' novel. That's how you find your voice, your plot will emerge, and your story will unfold. After that revise and write some more. Then, guess what...more writing and revising. If you have the desire to be a writer this will be your life.

As painful as this sounds my process of finding this place and asking questions was exactly what Charlie described there: First wrote the novel, got to know my characters, plot, etc. Then revised, revised, revised. Still didn't work. Came here and asked questions specific to my novel, found the wrinkles in my writing. Realized I need to rewrite.

Asking for advice is smart. But make sure the advice applies to what you are planning to do. If your intention for example is to write a Sci Fi novel, you probably don't need all the info in the screen writing threads or in threads about how to write a mystery. If you notice you're strong in creating setting but weak is writing dialogue, that's probably what you want to search for.

As for plot holes, try structuring your plot first and create a blueprint of your scenes. Then put yourself in your reader's head and begin asking questions. If you can't find the answer to a question that's a plot hole. The way to get out of it is by making changes in the plot, adding or subtracting characters, scenes, etc. and seeing if it plugs the hole.

8thSamurai · Dec 5, 2009

Screenplay writing is writing visually with an economy of words.

Plot is what happens. Story is how you describe it happening. 'Forbidden Love' is a prime example, from Romeo and Juliet to Underworld. Same general plot. Very different stories.

ChaosTitan · Dec 5, 2009

XxEvWingsxX said:
What is semantic? @_@

http://www.dictionary.com

se⋅man⋅tic

/sɪˈmæn

tɪk/

Show Spelled Pronunciation [si-man-tik]

Show IPA Use semantic in a Sentence

See web results for semantic

See images of semantic

–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or arising from the different meanings of words or other symbols: semantic change; semantic confusion. 2. of or pertaining to semantics.

Also, se⋅man⋅ti⋅cal.

Origin:
1655–65; < Gk sēmantikós having meaning, equiv. to sēmant(ós) marked (sēman-, base of sēmaínein to show, mark + -tos verbal adj. suffix; akin to sêma sign) + -ikos -ic

Related forms:
se⋅man⋅ti⋅cal⋅ly, adverb

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source |

job · Dec 5, 2009

What Charlie said. And ...

Stuff like 'theme and 'motif' is essential for Lit 101.
I suspect many writers do fine without once wondering what the theme of their WIP is.

I don't say to not look at this analytical stuff --
but hands-on practice in putting a manuscript together not only teaches you construction methods, it tells you what questions you need answered.

Along about the time you're editing your third manuscript, you go looking for a way to talk about the problem you're having.
That's when somebody says,
'plot is the sequence of actions and story is what the actions mean,'
and you say, 'Yes! That's what I was trying to figure out."

Lady Ice · Dec 5, 2009

XxEvWingsxX said:
So I was looking around on this site, did a few clicking and reading and I found very useful information that could help in improving my writing. However, some things I really could not quite comprehend and I need a little more explaining, say for example:

What are the screen play methods and silent movie methods in writing? (I've tried Google-but I only get screen writing-not much help) Somewhere I read that those methods should be used in writing stories, but I got lost in it.

And what is the "voice" that publishers look for in a manuscript? What does that mean?

And are there ways to come out of a plot-hole?

I seem to keep falling in them...

Finally my last question, what is a Motif? and what do they mean by "the book has a great theme?" Is it like the plot or something?

Well, thanks for reading this, I appreciate all the help this site has to offer. ^_^

1- I would say that the screenplay thing is about showing instead of telling. Instead of saying 'Mary doesn't love Bob', you might have a scene where he gives her a valentine's card and she bins it or ignores it, or something. Films are about moments. That's why they're so fun to quote from. You want that lingering look, that difficult but revealing conversation, that act of betrayal, not a line which merely tells you it's happened.

2- A 'voice' is a distinctive style of writing, one which draws the reader in. It's like an actual person is talking to you.

3- Avoiding plot holes...hard. If it's fantasy, set out the 'laws of the land' early on. If you feel you're in danger of breaking them, refer back to your list. If it's anything else, finish the story and then re-read it.

4- A motif is a recurring symbol. For example, the red roses in American Beauty (I know it's a film, but still) symbolising passion and beauty.

5- A theme is what your story is about emotionally. It's what I call the second script or the emotional plot. For example, the plot might be: 'Girl befriends another girl; the girl cheats on her friend's husband' but the emotional plot, the one which'll draw your readers in, is the theme: the girl is betrayed by her friend. So your theme might be betrayal, or the overpowering effect of love- 'All's fair in love and war'

Bongo Fury · Dec 6, 2009

Like everybody above said, utilizing the strengths from screenwriting can assist in formulating the structure of a novel. Blake Snyder with his "Save the Cat!" books is one of the most obvious proponents (http://www.blakesnyder.com). I wouldn't follow his advice too closely, but his technique of using beat sheets (adjusted for the longer narrative of a novel) might help you slog through the soggy middle of a book.

Matera the Mad · Dec 6, 2009

Avoid huge animated sig pics.

I'm writing a novel and I have a few questions...

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Dorothy A. Winsor

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Speaking in metaphors

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