First Time Writing a Novel

faerydancer · Jun 6, 2005

Hello!

I don't post around here too often, but I feel I need a bit of advice.

I recently started working on a piece of fiction--first time trying for novel-length--and I just started writing it. No outline or anything, I just ran with it. But now that I've written about four chapters, I'm on the verge of a panic attack! I have ideas about where the plot will go and such, but I have no idea how to get there, how to make my characters less flat and how to add in foreshadowing or underlying themes without them sounding out of place. I just feel overwhelmed. If anyone can offer a few words of wisdom to get me to calm down, they'd be much appreciated. Or a good slap in the face might help as well.

Thanks for listening.

Best,
Brenda
www.ph-x.com

alaskamatt17 · Jun 6, 2005

Just go with whatever you feel like writing. Most of the final version will be distilled out of the mess you create now by going through multiple drafts. There's even a chance that you'll rewrite the whole thing piece by piece before you finalize it (this sounds terrible, but it's not so bad. It happened with my most recent book). Just don't worry about what you put in the rough draft--chances are it's better than you think it is.

write4details · Jun 6, 2005

You mention more than one problem.
The first one, and very understandable, is one of structure. There is no set answer to that. You have to forge your own. You can do that by looking at other novels and doing what they do. Or by setting up an arbitrary stucture to corral your mind. (I once had a novel really fall into place when I decided a time frame for it and divided it up into 7 days, each a "book" of chapters)

Another is story. Do you know where the thing is going? I have a very hard time imagining writing a book without having an idea of the ending. Sometimes I write the ending first, or very early on. Once you have you story and have distributed over the length of the book, you can start thinking about subplots and such.

Characters are a whole, entire different matter. The only relationship is that if you have good characters, they will tell your story for you and drag you along.
If your characters are flat, there is no point worrying about the overall structure yet. You need to work on that. Without solid characters, there is no point in pressing on.
You see all sorts of devices for building good characters...writing their biogs, all sorts of stuff. I would recommend more folksy ways of dealing with it. One would be to model them after people you know...even after other characters in movies, etc. Blending elements of others together to get the person you want and give them a voice of their own.
You might just want to spend some "staring time" on these characters...trying to picture them, hear them, see what they do and how they think. Run dialog between them, in your head at first to let it flow and cut the anxiety.
Can you entertain yourself with a little scene between these people?
The guy says this...what does she say back? Where does it go from there?

One more thing...don't worry about following straight along from page one to chapter two, etc. Any little chunks of the story that pop into your head...write them down. When you have enough chunks, you will start seeing ways to string them together.

This is not the sort of advice you get from books, but it's the way I do it, and I'm not the only one.

PattiTheWicked · Jun 6, 2005

First of all, congratulations on making it as far as four chapters. Lots of people give up long before that.

As to "where do I go now?", there are a couple of different ways to approach writing. Some people, like PD James and Patricia Cornwall, spend months researching, outlining, planning down to the page exactly what will happen where. Others, like Diana Gabaldon, writes a whole bunch of interesting scenes in no particular order, and then sorts them all out and connects them together. Still others just start writing and know they're at the end whenever they get there.

Since you have an idea where the plot is going, write some of those parts. Let's say you've decided that it's intregal to the story for Dan Dingleberry to be killed at some point. So write about Dan Dingleberry bitin' the big one. Write all about his death, you know you're going to need it. Tell us why he happened to be standing on the corner of Broad and Main when that piano came flying out of the window above his head that fateful April morning. You also know that it's important for Dan's ex-wife to go trout fishing next week. Write all about it, send her on a trip, tell us about the big-*** trout she caught. And of course, you know it's important for your hero, Stan Studmuffin, to fall for Dan's trout-fishing ex, even though she's the number one suspect in his death, because she was dating the piano teacher who lived up on the eleventh floor.

After you've written the stuff you know you need, it may be a whole lot easier to figure out the filler material that gets you from point A to point B.

BlueTexas · Jun 6, 2005

Check out the "Learn Writing With Uncle Jim" thread. Invaluable.

TashaGoddard · Jun 6, 2005

As you will hear a lot round here, you need to find what works for you. But hearing how others deal with stumbling blocks can sometimes help you find your own way. So... disclaimer over...

I had a similar stumbling block lately. Though I knew where I was going I was not entirely clear on how to get there and I didn't really know my characters well enough. What I did was write down each character that I knew about, then write five things about each of them in different categories. For example, five facts about their past, five facts about their career, five friends, etc. etc. As I was doing that, outlines for scenes kind of grew from this information - e.g. five scenes about the hero's antagonist relationship with his father, five conflict scenes between Character A and Character B (these aren't my actual scenes, btw!). I'm trying to do a bit of this five-facts/five-scenes brainstorming every day and am about to get back to the actual writing, using the scene outlines that have come from this. What I'm also doing is concentrating on one character at a time in writing the scenes. That is, writing all Character A scenes this week, Character B next week, etc. This helps me get into each character's voice (and head).

And the disclaimer again... find what works for you; try out any of the tips that sound like they might help you; if they don't, discard them; repeat ad nauseum until you find what you're looking for.

Good luck!

faerydancer · Jun 6, 2005

Thanks!

Thank you everyone for your insightful words. I've calmed down a bit, and resolved to just write the rest of it. Regardless if I feel there's things that need to change right at that moment, I'll keep forging ahead. Easier said than done, I know!

AlaskaMatt17: Thanks! Yeah, my inner editor runs off on its own little tangent quite often. I'm realizing that if I try to perfect the first chapter before moving on, I'll never get anywhere!

write4details: I have a pretty good idea of where the plot is going, but there are some spots I'm still unsure of. It's that uncertainty that I have a hard time dealing with. But the ending is pretty much set in my mind. I like the idea of making my characters have a conversation in my head first. I've always heard you need to get to know your characters. I guess I've just been reluctant to take the plunge.

PattiTheWicked: Thanks! For some reason I've had this notion that I have to write it in order. I'll throw caution to the wind and write what comes to mind from now on--whether it ends up in chapter 2 or chapter 15.

BlueTexas: Thanks! I've been reading a lot of Uncle Jim's thread lately and it is definitely invaluable. Every bit of the advice there makes me feel like I can tackle this monstrosity!

Best,
Brenda

BlueTexas · Jun 6, 2005

You'll make it--and just so you feel better, I'm stuck in chapter four, too.

faerydancer · Jun 6, 2005

TashaGoddard said:
As you will hear a lot round here, you need to find what works for you. But hearing how others deal with stumbling blocks can sometimes help you find your own way. So... disclaimer over...

I had a similar stumbling block lately. Though I knew where I was going I was not entirely clear on how to get there and I didn't really know my characters well enough. What I did was write down each character that I knew about, then write five things about each of them in different categories. For example, five facts about their past, five facts about their career, five friends, etc. etc. As I was doing that, outlines for scenes kind of grew from this information - e.g. five scenes about the hero's antagonist relationship with his father, five conflict scenes between Character A and Character B (these aren't my actual scenes, btw!). I'm trying to do a bit of this five-facts/five-scenes brainstorming every day and am about to get back to the actual writing, using the scene outlines that have come from this. What I'm also doing is concentrating on one character at a time in writing the scenes. That is, writing all Character A scenes this week, Character B next week, etc. This helps me get into each character's voice (and head).

And the disclaimer again... find what works for you; try out any of the tips that sound like they might help you; if they don't, discard them; repeat ad nauseum until you find what you're looking for.

Good luck!

Thanks! This is a great idea. You're right about everyone needing to find what works for them. But I often get ideas from others and alter them a bit to suit me. Thanks for this one!

Best,
Brenda

blacbird · Jun 6, 2005

Agree compleeeetely with Patti the Wicked. If you're stuck in chapter four, write chapter five. Or six, or eleven, or the first third of what might be chapter twenty-two. You already have characters, flow, some idea (maybe multiple competing ideas) of where to go. So go out on one of those limbs and write scenes that may fit, or may get thrown out later. I had an experience like that half-way through my last unpublishable novel, one particular that I even knew what I wanted to do with, but somehow just couldn't write it. After stewing for a while, I decided to ignore it and go on to other, later things. By doing that, I put a far end on the unwritten chapter that allowed me to go back and connect up what was before with what came after.

There exists no rule that says a novel has to be written sequentially. Or any other kind of written work, for that matter.

bird

BenMears · Jun 7, 2005

Hi, Brenda.

First, if you could write four chapters, you can certainly write four more, so you should operate from a position of confidence.

I am in the same situation basically, and I'm trying to follow two simple rules: 1) write every day, try to get 1000 words; 2) no thinking allowed.

Of course writing takes some sort of thought, but I try to think with my fingers, as I'm turning out words. Think about the next sentence, period. As soon as I try to take a larger view than that, I become concerned about all the loose ends, inconsistencies, unknowns, etc, etc. That way lies paralysis, madness, and death.

You can do it!

PattiTheWicked · Jun 7, 2005

faerydancer said:
PattiTheWicked: Thanks! For some reason I've had this notion that I have to write it in order. I'll throw caution to the wind and write what comes to mind from now on--whether it ends up in chapter 2 or chapter 15.

Well, it makes sense to write it in order, because that's how we read things. We start at the beginning, work through the middle, and end at the end.

I'm on the third draft of one of my mss. The first part I wrote, which I *thought* would be the first chapter, actually ended up getting moved about 50 pages in. A series of incidents which originally took place near the middle of the book have been bumped so they start in the first chapter, and some stuff, brilliant as it once seemed to be, has been eliminated completely.

Look at the way they film movies. Scenes aren't shot in order. The sequence of filming depends on weather, location arrangements, moody actors, costuming logistics, the caterer's schedule, and whether or not the screenwriter has actually finished that day's pages. When all the scenes are filmed, someone takes them and puts them in an order that makes sense.

As the writer, that's what you do too. You've got characters who are trying to do their own thing, whether you want them to or not, you have plot lines that suddenly strike you as boring and insignificant, research that you have to do so that the carriage ride from Inverary to Dunoon sounds believable, and on top of all that, you're putting yourself under pressure wondering if you'll ever sell this piece of tripe you've spent six months on.

Work with what you have, and then make it work for you. Eventually, it will all fall into place.

Oh, and read the Learn Writing With Uncle Jim thread daily

SRHowen · Jun 7, 2005

there are also those of here who are in your situation with every book we write--we like it that way. LOL

We just write without worrying about any of it--it works out. Your character finds a quarter in Chapter one and puts it in his pocket and then in chapter five he needs it to use the pay potty. You had no idea that's what he was putting that quarter in his pocket for, no idea there would even be a need in chapter five for him to have it. The story just grows and the things needed are there.

I never know where the story is going to go.

Roger J Carlson · Jun 7, 2005

I posted this in the Uncle Jim thread, but you might miss it, so I'll repeat:
__________________

I'm no expert, but I've found a system that works for me. I work in several parts of my book at the same time. I have 3 drafts that precede what I all the First Draft: Storyboard, Rough and Draft.

Storyboard is like an extended outline where I write the progagonist does this and says that. It is in present tense.

With the Rough draft, I put it in past tense and add action and dialog.

With the Draft version I add description and smooth the dialog.

Each chapter has a separate file for each version. When they're all in Draft version, I stitch them together to create my First Draft. Then I go over the whole thing for continuity, story arc, and of course endless revising.

But what this gets me in terms of writers block is that if finished prose isn't coming to me, I go work ahead on the Storyboard. If I can't decide where the story is going, maybe I'll work on Rough copy. Or if everything is banging away on all cylinders, I'll work on Draft. The Storyboard and Rough stages allow me to just write junk if I have to because I'll be going over it in Draft. Sometimes, I'm working in Rough and things start clicking and I find I'm really working in Draft mode.

I'm not saying that this method is right for everybody, but it might help to overcome a slump.
__________________
Some system like this might make the panic a little more managable.

faerydancer · Jun 7, 2005

Thanks so much for the wonderful advice!

blacbird: I'm already taking up this approach, and it's working wonders. Bits of the end are now written, as well as events that don't have a place yet. It's nice to get everything out on the table and then work with it.

BenMears: I've been following your thread and your progress. Congrats on making it this far! You have a great attitude, and I think I should try and just fly by the seat of my pants too. It's nervewracking but fun! No thinking allowed is tough, but doable, I know. I find myself thinking, "This doesn't sound right," or "Oh, no! This doesn't make sense with what I said earlier." I'm realizing, as you said, that you just have to do it. I'll worry about making it sound good later.

PattitheWicked: I like the example you made with how movies are made. Thinking of writing a novel in that sense puts it into perspective: get it all out on paper and then make sense of it. In movies, all of the special effects, the score and such are added in later. Thinking of it in this way gives me hope. And the Learn Writing With Uncle Jim thread is awesome! It's my new stop for whenever I'm feeling uninspired or need a little writing guidance. This thread is helping me there too =)

SRHowen: lol. I thought I was one of those people, but I'm most definitely not, hehe. But I can't look back now. I like the idea of each of my characters finding their own ways out of problems. I set up a situation or give them a tool, but then the rest falls into place. I've found this happening already, but on a small scale. Let's hope I can pull out some big solutions for the middle of my book (or what I like to call, the black hole).

Roger: Thanks for re-posting this. I like your hands on approach to writing. Your three different stages allow you to keep moving forward, regardless of your current level of enthusiasm. I started a notebook, where I'm keeping notes to myself about plot inconsistencies and things I'll need to change in the editing process so I don't obsess over them now. I'll save them until I reach the rewrite stage. I've also got bits of outline, bits of dialogue, bits of story and various other "bits" thrown in there. Having these little notes help me spring back into action when I'm stuck staring at my keyboard.

Thanks so much everyone for preventing me from going crazy! It's amazing what a little order and sense will do. Have I mentioned how much I love this banana? :banana:

Best,
Brenda

Nateskate · Jun 7, 2005

"I've thought of an ending for my book Gandalf...and he lived happily ever after till the end of his days."

When you start a novel, you want to have a rough idea where it goes. It doesn't have to be complex. It can be as simple as "They fall in love," or "He saves the princess."

Don't make the premise of the story too complex. That doesn't mean the story can't be too complex. But it can be "Frodo is going to save the world."

Then write down a series of questions and answer them one by one. "Who is he going to save the world from?" (Some big mean guy with super powers. I'll call him Sauron, and make him somewhat like the mythical gods of old)

Hmmm, why would a mean guy threaten the world?
A: He wants to control everything and fashion it.

Why is that so bad, what if he fashions a beautiful world?
A: He corrupts and twists things, stealing everything that is beautiful, because...

How does he go about accomplishing this?
A: He makes magic rings.

No matter what your book is about, you can break it down by asking simple questions.

Another trick is to simply make up a character. "What if I give him an aunt?" So what, everyone has an aunt. What would make her interesting? Make her crazy, and put some skeletons in her closet. In fact, you don't even have to open the closet. Leave people wondering what in the name of blue blazes, she has in that closet. If it scratches the door, all the better.

PattiTheWicked · Jun 7, 2005

Nateskate said:
So what, everyone has an aunt. What would make her interesting? Make her crazy, and put some skeletons in her closet. In fact, you don't even have to open the closet. Leave people wondering what in the name of blue blazes, she has in that closet. If it scratches the door, all the better.

Are we related?

Nateskate · Jun 7, 2005

PattiTheWicked said:
Are we related?

Wow, on my part, I think that would be cool. It would make Thanksgiving dinner all the more spicy if we don't reveal our true identities, and have to keep guessing which person at the other end of the table it is. "She looks like a writer, but..."

PattiTheWicked · Jun 7, 2005

Nateskate said:
Wow, on my part, I think that would be cool. It would make Thanksgiving dinner all the more spicy if we don't reveal our true identities, and have to keep guessing which person at the other end of the table it is. "She looks like a writer, but..."

"Hmm... he's asking Aunt Clara an awful lot of questions about the mysterious deaths of all five of her husbands... BINGO!!"

edfrzr · Jun 7, 2005

I am truly no expert. I just like telling people what to do (just kidding).

In the first novel I wrote I started with a single thought; just like you, no real direction or outline. I actually thought it would be the opening line to the story. It turns out that this particular thought ended up around page 50 or so. The story seemed to spread in all directions like a bad fungus (bad analogy, but true).

What I found interesting was how I started to obsess over the story. It got to the point where I carried a voice recorder with me -- just in case. I would wake up in the middle of the night and stumble to the computer thinking -- wow, that's good. I would jot down a note or two and go back to sleep. Most of the time these notes were out of sequence of the current action. Now granted it may not be the best gramatically correct story ever written, but somehow, in the end, it all tied itself together. It was the damndest thing I ever saw.

I have read, reread and edited this story several times trying to tie up loose ends. Sometimes as I read I still get excited even though I know what's coming. Other times I can't believe this story came from me. I'll sit straight up and say, "...damn, I wrote that?" I got so excited, I wrote a second one.

I guess what I'm trying to offer you is, trust your instincts. If you made the committment to do it, then do it, it'll come. Jot it down even if it's just a fleeting thought. You will find a way to make the leap. I wrote my ending before I was close to being done and tied in backwards.

I wish you the best of luck. There is a ton of great advice on this site. Don't be a stranger.

Kiva Wolfe · Jun 8, 2005

Arm yourself with the right tools.

About three years ago, I had a reunion with a sister I hadn't seen in years who told me a dream she felt was meant for me. A month later, the dream became a 100-page outline, replete with characters, chapter outline, plot and journey points, etc.

On the heels on an on-line writing course, I looked into software that might help and purchased DramaticaPro and StoryView. It didn't write the story for me, but it did help with developing the necessary discipline, while also detailing the story enough for me to finish the 427-page novel a year later. I also feel that mentoring with established authors can help you through the low points. Throughout the writing, I worked closely with an author who looked at my work chapter by chapter and gave me timely input on what I needed and where.

I hope this helps.

faerydancer · Jun 8, 2005

Thanks so much for your kind words.

edfrzr: What you've said not only makes sense but is inspiring. The idea for my novel, trite as it may sound, came from a dream. I woke up and was like, "Wow! I need to write that down!" A year later, my plot and story barely resemble the original dream, but the inspiration came somewhere from my subconscious. Things like that make me feel like I have to finish. I think it's great that your story took a hold of you and refused to let go. The best ones are that way, I believe.

Kiva Wolfe: That's wonderful that your sister's dream sparked a story within you. Dreams are really little fleeting images of inspiration, aren't they? I've considered investing in some writing software. Thank you for your suggestions. If my lack of organization becomes more distracting that it already is, I'll pony up the bucks. Mentoring is also a great thing. I've just started working with a writing partner. We exchange chapters each week. Even though I'm still in the very very rough stage, I think it'll help me focus.

Next on my to-do list...

Sit down and actually write longer than five minutes without getting the urge to check my mail or this forum!

Thanks guys,
Brenda

First Time Writing a Novel

faerydancer

alaskamatt17

write4details

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

BlueTexas

Back from self-exile land.

TashaGoddard

Away with the fairies

faerydancer

BlueTexas

Back from self-exile land.

faerydancer

blacbird

BenMears

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only

faerydancer

Nateskate

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

Nateskate

PattiTheWicked

Unleashing Hell.

edfrzr

Kiva Wolfe

faerydancer