Language and Violence

Anything acceptable in adult fiction, I've heard, is okay in YA. We can handle it.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to read a book where every other word was profane. Doesn't mean it's not allowed, just that I personally wouldn't read it.

Violence I don't mind.

So yeah. If it happens to teens in the real world, it can happen in your book.

Please Do Your Research

We Get Sick of Answering These Questions

When People Ask These Questions, I Worry If They've Done Enough Research In The Genre To Be Writing It

Take A Look At Any Popular YA

Which You Should Be Doing Anyway

Sage said:

Time to call Shady

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Yep. Wait for it...

LOL. That's all.

I am going to do a search and see how many times my character's say fuck, have sex, or something explodes.

102,003,231 times.

And this is a LIGHT HEARTED COMEDY YOUNG ADULT NOVEL.

Don't worry about it.

Did you read Shady's Links? I'd advise you to do that, and then spend some time browsing an up to date YA section in a library or bookstore will be a great exercise.

And, not to be obtuse, but who do you have to sell the idea of not toning it down, to?

Christopher Hawk said:

Fantastic response. Are you aware of your parents opinions on the subject? I'm having an editorial debate over my draft as to its appropriateness. My feeling is that toning it down will result in a loss of true meaning.

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My parents don't know anything about the books I read.

If they saw swearing, they'd ground me.

If they saw sex, they'd lock me in a tower.

Christopher Hawk said:

I have to sell the idea, of not toning it down, to the partners for publishing.

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no offense, but how much knowledge do these "partners" know about the genre?

but YA books aren't about parents. they get their own books. these are ours.

Christopher Hawk said:

Yes. And that is where I am falling short in my argument. Although, there is no sex in mine. These are the answers I am looking for that are not in the links provided above.

Thank you very much.

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Perhaps it would be worth being more specific with your questions then? It would give a greater chance of getting a better answer.

Five shits, two buggers and a fuck per novel.

Slapping and kicking allowed, never punching.

YA novels should not contain any form of sex.

Okay I just have to post because I am so confused. I went to each of those links and they seemed to say the exact same thing that Terri said, that anything is acceptable in YA. But then Terri added that her parents wouldn't approve of what she was reading, and you seem to have latched onto that (ignoring her original statement entirely). You do realise that Terri's parents are two individuals, not the representatives of all parents right? That there are parents out there who do approve of teens reading about darker subjects, who understand that kids go through some pretty dark stuff and who "allow" their kids to read such topics. Parents who, once their child has finished reading a more controversial work, will sit down with her and have a really interesting discussion about its themes. I speak of personal experience here. What's more, are you writing for parents or teens?

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to play it safe, tone things down, and then have parents approve of the work and buy it for their kids, or do you want to stay true to your work, maybe sell fewer books, but those that you do sell will speak directly to your audience?

Adding to that, you have yet to describe the level of violence that is so offensive to your writing partners. Violence is a tricky thing because depending on how you write it, you can get away with a lot actually (a lot more than sex) with parents. I write middle grade fiction which is meant for 8 - 12 yearolds, and I have several deaths, a few people killing other people, an almost torture scene, an 11 yearold shot in the arm, and a description of a man without a face. And aside from the odd review that says, "There is some violence which may frighten younger readers (ie 8 yearolds) . . ." I haven't had a problem with any of it, with kids or adults. So it really would be helpful if you would tell us exactly what kind of violence you are talking about. It is quite possible what your writing partners consider too much, the rest of the reading world consider downright tame. It also may not, but we have no idea. It would also help us create a good argument for you to take back to your writing partners as well. I feel a bit like you read that one post by Terri and all your fears were confirmed (as if one single person was the definitive word in YA violence and parents). I'm concerned, quite frankly, you are jumping to conclusions, when really you shouldn't give up so easily.

Toothpaste makes a good point. My parents are oddly protective and I know plenty of parents that encourage their teens to read controversial, violent, profanity-filled books. Even in school, we study edgy books; look at Lord of the Flies, The Lottery, Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time...heck, even Romeo and Juliet. Somebody obviously approves. Okay, those may be rather tame examples, but you get my point.

Also, might I add that I am less likely to read a book that my parents recommend? I want to learn about the world that they don't want me a part of, not 'safe' books that encourage the values I've had thrown at me all my life.

Heck, high school (and middle school) is filled with bad language, sex and some violence - depending on the school. YA needs to be on the same level as the target audience. Just because they're under 18 doesn't mean they live in caves. Ya know?

Also, are your partners from a publisher - are they editors? Who exactly are you trying to sway? Is this a traditional publisher - more info on that end may make it easier to help you.

Some great links...one more book for the arsenal (ie, arguing that nothing is off-limits these days):

Last year's Living Dead Girl, by Elizabeth Scott. It's a YA novel written from the perspective of a teenager who has been held captive and sexually abused for years, and is now being enlisted by her captor/abuser to help him find her replacement before he probably kills the protagonist. It is haunting and hard to read in places, and you are there with her (in her first person perspective) through repeated sexual and physical abuse.

But I think it's a good example of how even very rough subjects can be included in YA books these days and that really nothing is off limits if it serves the story.

Edited to add that if you are writing a book to ideally be used in a classroom, then be concerned about language and sex, maybe, maybe - but if not, as long as it serves the story, it is good to go.

~suki

Last 3 books I read (all YA) The Hunger Games, The Forest of Hands and Teeth, and Winter Girls. First two are very violent, so much so that the movie (if one were made and it were accurate) would have to be R. Wintergirls was about eating disorders, so not so much violence, though some self inflicted injury, for sure. I'm getting ready to watch Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist, interested to see how they toned the language in that one down enough to get the PG-13 rating.

What are you reading?