What's the best way to convey a character's thoughts in third person limited?

IThinkICan29 · Apr 1, 2009

I'm writing my 'new' (woo-hoo) WIP in third person limited and have hit a road block of sorts. Something I haven't encountered before. Here's my problem in a nutshell:

My characters love to think(for which I use italics followed by 'he/she thought') but they also like to speak in their thoughts (?).

Since I'm using italics for the thoughts, how do I handle the things they want to say but stifle themselves from saying. I mean, I know they're technically, ALL thoughts...but gosh, saying 'she thought, he thought' gets a bit redundant after about the second time.

I've considered nixing these 'spoken but not really spoken thoughts' and trying to work them into dialogue somehow, but I've come to a point where my character is sitting in church with her daughter and the woman that's been in her daughter's life in her absence. My character is jealous and has already thought a WHOLE lot about the 'new chick', but when the new chick sits next to her daughter and puts her arm around her, my character commences to firing off multiple expletives in her head. No way to work this into dialogue without causing mass hysteria in the church.

I would hate to have to type everything she WANTS to say, then follow it with 'she thought'.

Hope the above isn't too difficult to understand.
GRRR! *bangs head*
Please help me!

Bubastes · Apr 1, 2009

Try leaving out the "she thought" and letting the thoughts stand alone (no italics). It should work.

IThinkICan29 · Apr 1, 2009

Bubastes said:
Try leaving out the "she thought" and write the actual thoughts. No need to put them in the dialogue. You won't even need to put them in italics in most cases. It should work.

Wait...wait!! Please don't go.

You'll have to explain this to me like I'm three. Leave out italics? Leave out 'she thought'?

This could work, she thought. But how will the reader know what she's thinking if they don't know she's thinking it?

Danthia · Apr 1, 2009

Italics are most often used when the thought is immediate or you want to draw attention to it. If it's just part of the narrative, you can leave it like the rest of the text.

Bob ran down the road, zombies on his tail. He'd never take a job from Carlos again. They always got so weird. And this one's the worst.

I find using the he thought tags to be very intrusive. If we're in someone's POV, obviously what they're thinking is their thought. It's all their thoughts and feelings. The tag is more for third omni where it isnt as clear. But if you can cut it, it's usually best to.

Bubastes · Apr 1, 2009

Danthia's example is great. Once you've established your POV character, the reader will know what the character is thinking.

IThinkICan29 · Apr 1, 2009

Danthia said:
Italics are most often used when the thought is immediate or you want to draw attention to it. If it's just part of the narrative, you can leave it like the rest of the text.

Bob ran down the road, zombies on his tail. He'd never take a job from Carlos again. They always got so weird. And this one's the worst.

I find using the he thought tags to be very intrusive. If we're in someone's POV, obviously what they're thinking is their thought. It's all their thoughts and feelings. The tag is more for third omni where it isnt as clear. But if you can cut it, it's usually best to.

Thanks!
Great explanation. It's like my mind popped open...LOL

Seriously, you rock Danthia...

blacbird · Apr 1, 2009

IThinkICan29 said:
Wait...wait!! Please don't go.

You'll have to explain this to me like I'm three. Leave out italics? Leave out 'she thought'?

This could work, she thought. But how will the reader know what she's thinking if they don't know she's thinking it?

In third-person limited POV you can't get away with revealing the thoughts of characters other than your POV character at any given time. Now, you can use multiple POV characters, but switching often among such, in order to reveal thoughts, drops you head-first into the fetid miasmic swamp of head-hopping.

Many novels and manuscripts I've read suffer from the simple sin of too-much-thinking, not-enough-doing. If you're substituting thought-revelation for actual narrative, that's a problem all by itself.

caw

IThinkICan29 · Apr 1, 2009

blacbird said:
In third-person limited POV you can't get away with revealing the thoughts of characters other than your POV character at any given time. Now, you can use multiple POV characters, but switching often among such, in order to reveal thoughts, drops you head-first into the fetid miasmic swamp of head-hopping.

Many novels and manuscripts I've read suffer from the simple sin of too-much-thinking, not-enough-doing. If you're substituting thought-revelation for actual narrative, that's a problem all by itself.

caw

My manuscript has multiple characters but only one POV and there's no headhopping. I use scene breaks and chapter breaks to separate each character's thoughts, action, etc.

maestrowork · Apr 1, 2009

If you use italics, you don't need the tags: she thought, he thought.

If you don't use the tags or the italics, as long as you're in 3rd limited, you can just integrate the thoughts into your narration as if it was "first person":

She ran down the street and grabbed an umbrella. This could work! She opened the umbrella and flew away.

IThinkICan29 · Apr 1, 2009

maestrowork said:
If you use italics, you don't need the tags: she thought, he thought.

If you don't use the tags or the italics, as long as you're in 3rd limited, you can just integrate the thoughts into your narration as if it was "first person":

She ran down the street and grabbed an umbrella. This could work! She opened the umbrella and flew away.

Cool!

Yeah, I've been going through my manuscript, making the changes. I'm really digging it. The writing flows so much better without the 'he/she thoughts'.

zornhau · Apr 2, 2009

It's limited 3rd. Everything is from the POV character's POV!

She sat there, the bitch, arm around Brunhilda's daughter as if she owned her.

For added clarity show the character reacting to their thoughts.

She sat there, the bitch, arm around Brunhilda's daughter as if she owned her. Brunhilda's fingers flexed, yearning for the grip of her Uzi 9mm.

Straka · Apr 2, 2009

maestrowork said:
She ran down the street and grabbed an umbrella. This could work! She opened the umbrella and flew away.

I've always preferred this method, both in terms of writing and reading. Seems smoother and less obtrusive than Italics.

In my first WIP I had a lot of internal thoughts. One my readers said she didn't think it was necessary and that they actually took away from the narrative. So I deleted them all, and while the WIP wasn't publishiable still, it became much stronger. The way I was using the internal thoughts was telling, and not showing.

Personally sometimes I like reading and not knowing what the MC is ploting.

fancie · Apr 2, 2009

Wow! You mean I've been doing at least THAT right in my writing? :tongue

l

Cathy C · Apr 2, 2009

Here's what I do, because I use telepathic thought in several of our books.

In third limited, general thoughts/musing aren't treated any differently. It's only when actually speaking to oneself (such as a sarcastic comment) that it's italicized.

Then, for telepathic speech, use a different FONT. I use Arial, and have set up a macro as Alt-A for Arial, and Alt-T for Times New Roman (which is what I type in, and then convert to Courier for the editor). Make it something simple so all you have to do is hit the macro, type the wording and then hit the second macro to go back. That saves you from clicking on Format and Font and scrolling to find the right font and then going back to writing. It really disrupts the mental process, y'know. If you want to see an example of how I do it, yell.

Phaeal · Apr 2, 2009

As already said. If you're writing in third person limited (one POV or one POV per section), anything sensed, thought or felt must be sensed, thought or felt by the POV character. No need to state this with thought attributions or italics.

We SFF writers have to save italics for telepathy and other forms of paranormal communication/experience.

IThinkICan29 · Apr 2, 2009

Cathy C said:
Here's what I do, because I use telepathic thought in several of our books.

In third limited, general thoughts/musing aren't treated any differently. It's only when actually speaking to oneself (such as a sarcastic comment) that it's italicized.

This was my issue!

I was putting the thoughts in italics and then felt as if I was in a corner because I didn't know what to do with the sarcastic comments.

*Rushes back to manuscript*

Matera the Mad · Apr 3, 2009

Or a thought tossed off as prayer --

Ottavar chewed his lip, desperation writhing in his stomach. Please, help me to find the answer to this riddle. "I need to know about you, what you know, what you can do," he said. I need to know you, he thought, and I'll do whatever it takes to break through. He didn't have time to search for a lost spirit, not today; but he would go at it all drum, chant, and face-paint if he had to.

I mixed everything into that busy moment of stone-age psychoanalysis -- italicized thought, "he thought" in parallel with "he said", and straight narrative, plus italics for emphasis. I theeenk it works...

What's the best way to convey a character's thoughts in third person limited?

IThinkICan29

Bubastes

bananaed

IThinkICan29

Danthia

Bubastes

bananaed

IThinkICan29

blacbird

IThinkICan29

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

IThinkICan29

zornhau

Swordsman

Straka

Bored Fanatic

fancie

And it was so.

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

IThinkICan29

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint