Does it get any easier?

First, I think you need to ease up on yourself. You're always going to make mistakes. Every single time you write. For the rest of your life. Revision is just a part of the process. I don't mean this as a downer, just as a way of looking at things so that you don't beat yourself up so much.

Also, writing short stories is very different from writing novels. I do both and find that the problems I have while writing short stories are not the same issues I have while writing novels. In some ways, writing short stories is harder because you have to make your point much faster. You can build up to it in a novel. (Of course, that presents its own problems.)

If you want to write a novel and haven't started yet, I'd say get going. The only way you'll work out the issues with the form is by writing. No, it's not going to be perfect. Yes, you'll have to revise. ALOT. I'm in the middle of revisions right now and sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's not. But that's the process. Just as I'm sure your short stories have improved with practice, your novels will too.

Just don't give up.

I'm pretty sure that the average successful novelist spends most of their time in the revision phase. I'm equally sure that most novelists get corrections from their editors and even then find errors going over the proof copy.

As for looking at older writing and thinking of it as 'crap' -- I do that too and I chalk it up to simply being a better writer. While it might make you cringe, think about *not* looking back at older stuff and thinking it wasn't written as good as you can write. How would you know you've grown as a writer?

It's impossible to be flawless in your first draft. Almost no author is. The fact you got so many stories published is because someone found them worthy enough to spend time on them.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Personally, I would not work on perfecting short stories before writing a novel. To me, they are so different. I've never written a short story I felt was successful, yet I've written several novels I'm satisfied with (I'm sure they could still use work, but overall, even my perfectionist side considers them a good read).

If what you really want to do is write novels, then write novels.

While short stories can help you with your writing skills, preparing for novel writing through short stories isn't really helpful.

It's much like preparing for a marathon by running sprints. They are two completely different animals.

Stijn Hommes said:

It's impossible to be flawless in your first draft.

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It's impossible to be flawless, period.

To the OP, you do your best and keep writing so you get better. Giving up (especially before you've even begun) won't do any good. I bet 100% of published authors would change something about every book they published. If you're attempting perfection, you'll be at it a hell of a long time . . . forever. What you CAN do is write a damn good book. That's all most of us want.

Prozyan said:

While short stories can help you with your writing skills, preparing for novel writing through short stories isn't really helpful.

It's much like preparing for a marathon by running sprints. They are two completely different animals.

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Dammit, I hate it when somebody says exactly what I was about to say.

The only way to learn how to write a novel is to write a novel.

And even that might not work.

But you won't know until you go after it. So that's your assignment. Let us know how it works.

caw

Every story you tell is going to be in its own grade. That is, each story is going to have its own length. Don't force it. If your story was meant to be a novel, it will happen. Someone else told me that when I had a problem of getting my own story to be longer. And that was here at AW with Mother of the Dragons.

I let it be what it was and sent it to publishers. I'm waiting to hear back yet lol. If you truly want to write novels, you have to teach yourself to write them. Read a lot of other novels and ask yourself what makes them what they are.

Open your mind to all the posibilties there are for your characters. Open your mind too. If something happens, ask yourself how to drag it out without making it boring or feel dragged out. Suspense can really make a story better and the same goes for action. A car chase can last for a page or it can just be a paragraph. There would have to be reasons for it being a page long which means as a writer, you have to dig deap and find those answers.

I hope that helps

Amber

For me, writing novels is totally life consuming. When I'm working on one, I think about it every day, damn near if not every second. It comforts and frustrates and disheartens me at the same time.

I've written three, and I think I've come closer to being deft. Organizing the timeline and developing the characters has become a bit easier with each new work, but I still freak out and wonder if I'm any good at all. I don't think that will go away ever.

amber_grosjean said:

If you truly want to write novels, you have to teach yourself to write them.

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I understand and agree with this statement, but it's a trifle misleading, methinks. So, with respect to Amber, I'll rephrase it: If you truly want to write novels, you have to write one, which is the only way to teach yourself how to write them.

caw

Writing is always hard, yet it does get easier. The more you learn, the easier it is to get the words down right the first time, and the easier it becomes to make those words better as you revise. But since every story is new, the hard parts of storytelling stay they same. Plus, revisions never end and you have even more people involved if you publish a novel, but you do get used to them. (Ironically, I just blogged about my recent copy editing experience)

It does sound like you're being too hard on yourself. Anything that causes undue stress isn't good for us, regardless of what it is. And when it's something that's supposed to bring us joy, that's extra bad.

Writing is all about revising and tweaking, and sometimes what we write sucks. But then we make it better. When we send it off and it gets published, other people make it even better still. It's often a group effort.

Before you dive into a novel, keep in mind that short stories and novels are different beasts. They use a lot of the same skill sets, but they also require very different skills. So if you struggle a bit at the start, don't worry about it. Remind yourself that you're building new writing muscles. Writing more shorts probably isn't going to help you with a novel. As others have mentioned, the only way to learn is to do it. And you probably WILL make mistakes and do it all wrong the first draft. So go into it allowing yourself the freedom to screw up. Don't make the goal writing a novel you can sell. Make the goal discovering what skills you need to write a workable novel. It might help take the pressure off.

angeliz2k said:

It's impossible to be flawless, period.

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So true. There will always be things you wish you could change, even when you're published and that first gem comes out. I can't remember who originally said it (hopefully someone will jump in and help with that) and I'm sure I'm paraphrasing, but novels are never really finished, rather they are abandoned. You can tweak and tweak till the cows come home and still not get it perfect, a state of being complicated by the fact that "good writing" is subjective.

Beth

herdon said:

I'm pretty sure that the average successful novelist spends most of their time in the revision phase.

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I don't agree with this. Most of the "successful" novelists I know spend the bulk of their time creating, not revising. (My definition of successful is someone who has been traditionally published.)

I'm equally sure that most novelists get corrections from their editors and even then find errors going over the proof copy.

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Absolutely! This I totally agree with.

Beth

cwfgal said:

I don't agree with this. Most of the "successful" novelists I know spend the bulk of their time creating, not revising. (My definition of successful is someone who has been traditionally published.)

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I think it depends on your definition of revising. Revising IS creating to me, because you're still building and developing the story. The non-creative editing party is where you're going over copy edits and proofing that changes were made and that the color of the dress on page six matches the one found on page 76.

I spend just as much time revising as I do creating, and I'm being published by a traditional publisher. But the copy editing and proofing is much less.

Getting better and reaching perfection are different things. Being satisfied that it's good enough and believing you've written a classic are also different.

What are your goals and expectations?

Writing is like playing a piano; you only get better with practice.

When I started I rewrote 99% of the page. There was more blue pencil than typing.

Then I reached a point where I was rewriting about 70%, then 40%.

Now I'm down to about 2%.

Practice-practice-practice.

Here's something I learned from Joe Bob Briggs:

Print this page at the other end of this link and tape it over your work area and read it every day. I usually do.

That's a great article, Gillhoughly. So true. That's about the extent of the writing advice I give, too. I love it.

I love Joe Bob Briggs. I went through this a couple of weeks ago (and every day since) when I realized writing songs and writing a novel are two different things requiring different sets of tools. And since it took me years to refine my songwriting...blah. But for the first time I'm actually writing everyday even though I know it's crap. It's the only way I'm going to learn. My biggest hurdle so far was to get past the voice in my brain whispering "quit! It's not perfect!" I now have my husband shake me everyday and tell me I can revise later. It helps.

Thanks for bringing up this topic. I have the same issues and appreciate all the advice given by the more experienced members of this group.

I like Gillhoughly's link! That was neat!

I also recommend Uncle Jim's thread. He does a good job of answering questions about novel writing and how it differs from writing short-stories. It's a very long thread but worth reading through.

I've always wanted to write novels. I never had much interest in short stories. Years ago I attempted my novel, got completely lost and frustrated and said to myself, "I'll just write short stories first. They're bound to be easier. When I get good at that I'll go back to my novel." Well, I tried that and hated it. (I did get something published, but I wasn't happy.) I finally decided to go back to the novel, but this time I did a lot of research first on how to write a novel. Suddenly everything is coming together much better.

On the one hand I think if I had read all that material on "how to write a novel" earlier, it would have been much easier. On the other hand, writing short stories wasn't a waste, I got a real honest-to-god publishment under my belt, and I've written stuff - anything - every day. So maybe that's what's honed my skill to attempt the novel now. You're even further along than I am, having published thirty stories, so I don't think you need to strive to write better short stories. I think it is time for you to write the novel. You are bound to be frustrated as you're sort of starting back at the beginning as a noob. At least that is how you feel because a novel is a different animal from a short story.

Think of it this way: you got your pilot's license. You fly a little single engine airplane on clear days for a few years and build hours in your logbook and become a pretty good pilot. Now you want to be able to fly "on instruments". That means in clouds where you can't see up or down outside the airplane. It is a whole 'nother skill. When you first get in the airplane with the instructor you feel like a complete beginner again. Oh, you've practiced "under the hood" (simulated) some, it's required, but you have never really flown on instruments successfully. You will go through a whole new iteration of feeling the same old doubts, fears, frustrations as you did when you were a beginner flight student.

So don't think of yourself as a beginner novelist, think of yourself as a successful storyteller, and you're just embarking on the next level. You're a good enough pilot now to go for your instrument rating. You're a noob at flying on instruments but you've got the basic skillset to get an airplane safely up and down so you're actually plenty ready to start this training, no matter how idiotic you feel with your instructor, who is good enough to do aerobatics in clouds. Feeling like you aren't good enough to write the novel yet is to be expected, and completely normal.

I wrote several novels before I wrote my first successful short stories. The short stories weren't easier, because I had to learn a whole new modus operandi and mindset. So, as other have said, perfecting the short won't help you with the novel. Besides, there is no perfection; therefore waiting until you're perfect at one thing before trying another thing will insure you never get to thing number two.

For me, it's become easier to write over time. To write well has become harder.