Stories that Lack Humanity.

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tarcanus

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Take the topic title quite literally.

My major WIP involves a world I created where the gods decided to use reptiles, instead of mammals, as their models for life. This being, they created new races of creatures - 3 of them are sentient.

There are no humans. None. There are mammals, such as rabbits and other prey items, but no mammalian predators of any kind. Birds were allowed, as were fish, since they are both could become prey items for the races.

Now, I'm curious for opinions on this. I imagine there may be a problem with a disconnect from the reader because it will be more difficult to relate to something not human. Yes, the races are sentient and so will be able to feel emotions as a human would - they love, they hate, they cry, etc. - but their habits and mannerisms will vary from something familiar to things barbaric. One of the races, by nature, has an aggression problem, as an example, and their interactions are painted by this.

Do you think the disconnect will be a problem? Or will the fact that this is unlike many other worlds out there be enough to hook the reader with curiosity over how I've handled the world? Would you expect it to be entirely different from humanity because the races are not human or would you be alright with reptiles being imbued with emotions like humanity? Would you drill for holes in the world-building more because of it?

I feel like my questions are a bit vague, but would be glad to answer any questions to try to firm up what I'm asking.

I suppose the question boils down to: Fantasy novels without humans - Yay, Nay, or Other?
 

Fade

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tarcanus, IMO, it is very good that you are not making your reptiles act just like humans. I agree with you that it would be slightly harder to relate to, but it may not even hinder the story-- at least, if someone disliked it, it'd still be better than having them toss the novel across the room, screaming, "Why are these dang reptiles acting just like humans?"

So basically, I think that you've got it perfect. In fact, I would enjoy reading something from a non-human perspective.
 

Ruv Draba

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All dramatic stories have humanity; it's just that the characters may not look human, they may have unusual motives, and their emotions may be expressed in strange ways.

Your challenge is to introduce readers to the characters in ways that make their motives and emotions clear. Otherwise, the usual matters of sympathy and empathy apply. Readers will sympathise with characters whose motives resemble the reader's own, or any character that suffers. Readers will empathise with any emotion they'd feel in the same situation, or any emotion whose rationale is presented clearly. If readers are busy sympathising and empathising with your characters then they won't be poking too many holes in your setting.
 

Sirion

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It’s not unheard of, and with a very good writer it can be successful to a point. The biggest problem in any story without humans is just that: The lack of humanity. People want to identify with their characters, and since we're all humans (I hope), we identify easily with other humans, or human-like characters (dwarves, elves, etc) who are really just allegories for different types of humans.
 

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Cool idea. I've read stories where I empathized with non-human characters, so having no humans at all should not be an insurmountable obstacle. It will take a bit more skill, but that's no problem, right?
 

bluebookworm

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I think this could be done well. Your question reminded me of some of C.J. Cherryh's stuff. IMO, she does a really good job of writing things from the POV of non-humans, especially the Kesrith books (although they do involve a human interacting with the aliens). But the chapters from the POV of the mri were my favorites. I'm sure you've probably read her stuff considering how well-known she is, but if you haven't, it's worth a look to see how she does it.
 

Nivarion

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on the inside they are human. Their customs and appearances are different, but behind the eyes all sentient life is similar.

I say go for it. I have sympathzised (slaughtered the spelling there) with many non-human characters. Write well and it can, and likely will, be read and enjoyed.
 

Kitty Pryde

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The Redwall novels are populated with mice and bunnies and badgers and ferrets and such. Any nonhuman characters have to show human traits, I think, even if their culture and biology and government and social structure are totally different.

'A Deepness in the Sky' by Vernor Vinge is half about humans and half about giant alien spiders. The giant alien spiders are wayyyyy more human and sympathetic than the humans are. By the end of the book I wanted to give them all a big hug. So yeah, it's totally doable.
 

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Watership Down - no humans. Or basically none. All the main characters are rabbits. And isn't there some fantasy where they're all giant cats..?

My memory is so very very bad.
 

tarcanus

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There is also Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH, but I was more asking about novels where the only races were fantasy races (not that I'm being a downer on animals, just that I think it's fairly common for an author to show animals having some sort of sentience).


C.J. Cherryh, eh? I've never heard of her, but will have to look into it, now.


It's good to hear that there's interest in this sort of thing. When I realized that most fantasy has humans as the primary race and that I couldn't think of any that used entirely fictional races, I started to worry there was an unsurmountable reason for it.
 

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First thought that came to mind was what do they do in the winter? Is it very cold where they live, because if it gets anywhere near cold wouldn’t they hibernate, being cold blooded and all?
 

tarcanus

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The gods created their world as a kind of "look, we can make a better, and more successful world than the rest of the gods" kind of thing. They are young (in comparison to the other gods of the pantheon) and weren't allocated any creation materials, so they used what the other gods left behind when they created their own worlds.

The world the younger gods created became a huge hilly plain(the entire world, mind you) with a few scraggly trees here and there. The whole world is of a single, mild to hot climate. Keep in mind the gods wanted their reptile races to be successful, so they created a world in which not only would the environment be suitable for them, but gave them a blank slate to work with. The gods' goal is to show up the other worlds with mammals and exhibit their success to the rest of the pantheon.

There won't be wildy varying climates until later in the story arc, and then the races will have 'adapted'.
 

MumblingSage

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I don't this the disconnect would be a problem, but your market will probably be smaller than for human-centric fantasy, just as a fact of life. If it's what you want to write, don't sweat it. Make it the best you can and pitch it as something new.
 

Izunya

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James Tiptree wrote some stories with no human characters, IIRC, and she's a highly respected science fiction author. (Yes, she. Her real name was something like Alice Sheldon, again IIRC.) Of course, James Tiptree stories are not light reading; you often have to do quite a bit of thinking to really understand what's going on. And they're not to everyone's taste.

Still, it can definitely be done.

Izunya
 

Smiling Ted

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You might want to check out a novel by Harry Harrison called West of Eden.
It's an alternate timeline in which the dinosaurs evolved intelligence, and a human is adopted by one as a child.
 

tarcanus

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West of Eden sounds right up my alley. I'll admit to having been a dinosaur nut when I was younger and that my races would make you think 'dinosaur' before anything else.

This is great, everyone, thank you. Keep the commentary coming, if you like, all of it is good.
 
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West of Eden sounds right up my alley. I'll admit to having been a dinosaur nut when I was younger and that my races would make you think 'dinosaur' before anything else.

This is great, everyone, thank you. Keep the commentary coming, if you like, all of it is good.


I read that book. It's quite good, though the lizards are fairly human under the surface.
 

Izz

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C.J. Cherryh, eh? I've never heard of her, but will have to look into it, now.
Yeah, i would say she's a must-read for anybody going down the non-human protaganist avenue, particularly if the aliens are modelled after certain types of animals (which it sounds as if yours may be).

I happen to have spent some time thinking about how she does it, and i've come up with this (simplistic, and possibly completely wrong, but some thoughts for you to think about anyway, tarcanus):

Keep some of the traits of animal - for instance Cherryh's hani are basically sentient lions - she keeps the pack structure, and plays on the 'lionesses do all the hunting' theme some and expands this into a very believable societal model.

She also seems to pick a singular trait from a human culture and apply that to the alien race. When i say singular, i mean that, one thing from a human culture, past or present (usually past), and not necessarily a major trait of said human culture, and makes that a backbone of the alien race.

So you end up with something very foreign (as in non-human), yet still accessible. I would strongly recommend reading her Chanur novels and the Faded Sun trilogy (which bluebookworm already mentioned), as these are generally from the POV of a non-human protag.
 
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Izz

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Yep :) - Kitty Pryde did just up the page: Kitty's Post

And like her, i found the spiders much more likeable than the humans, but in many ways found them to demonstrate more basic traits of humanity than the human protags and antags.
 

satyesu

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i think this could be fascinating, but then i am not the average reader. don't just go halfway, though - if you've the time, go ground up. make them totally inhuman except for the most fundamental characteristics of sentience (and tell us what those are)
 
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Yep :) - Kitty Pryde did just up the page: Kitty's Post

And like her, i found the spiders much more likeable than the humans, but in many ways found them to demonstrate more basic traits of humanity than the human protags and antags.


Well, I enjoyed them, too... But I also liked the humans. It's hard to remind yourself that the "Spider" sections aren't quite real. They're soft-translated by a human character, and while I normally applaud such efforts, they can lead you astray when considering the cobbs. If you've read the second book, Vinge noted the issues of understanding different races through translation in several Net posts: see "hexapodia" in reference to humans.
 
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