Historicals and non-linear structure?

Doogs · Mar 16, 2009

Anybody have any experience/thoughts on non-linear story structure?

I'm running into some length concerns mapping out the story for the Alaric novel, and think taking a non-linear approach might help focus the story a bit better than a simple chronological progression.

And by non-linear I don't mean the old-narrator bookend approach taken by, say, Titanic. A better example would probably be the double narrative/flashback approach taken by Lost.

pdr · Mar 16, 2009

If...

that is what the story requires to make it the best you can write, then write it that way.

I can't remember the details of any historical novels I've read using that structure, but I am sure I have. That they didn't stand out means the structure worked!

Inarticulate Babbler · Mar 16, 2009

I agree, but would add to make sure the reader understands it's non-linear. You don't have to shove it in their faces, but make it known--so they don't get confused.

angeliz2k · Mar 17, 2009

It works for other genres, so I think it can work with a historical. After all, historical novels are still stories like any other genre.

Dates at the top of chapters/sections might not work. If other readers are like me, they will not pay enough attentino to the dates to realize the time is jumping around just by the numbers. You might need to add "fifteen years earlier" or mention the time jumps in the first paragraph of the chapters/sections.

RichardB · Mar 17, 2009

In a historical, one way to do "flashbacks" is to have a character tell an old tale or open up a written record. A few lines in the voice of the tale-teller or the author of the chronicle could grease the transition from one time to another.

Alternatively, you could have all your characters experience a big white flash and get nosebleeds.

Doogs · Mar 17, 2009

RichardB said:
In a historical, one way to do "flashbacks" is to have a character tell an old tale or open up a written record. A few lines in the voice of the tale-teller or the author of the chronicle could grease the transition from one time to another.

Yes, I can see how that could work (shades of The Princess Bride), but I don't think it would be especially applicable in my case.

My tentative plan to tell the story of Alaric's siege(s) and sack of Rome in a chronological fashion, all the while jumping back to the previous events, from his childhood forward, that brought him central Italy.

Alternatively, you could have all your characters experience a big white flash and get nosebleeds.

And Alaric will have four toes!

lkp · Mar 17, 2009

The danger with that approach is that people will get more interested in one of the timelines than the other (siege to sack vs. childhood to Italy). It's a challenge to make both so very pressing that readers don't mind when you move from one to another. I know there have been books where I've just read one of the two storylines.

That being said, it is exactly how I am writing my current novel. It begins at point of time B and while we move from time B to time C, the heroine tells the story of time A to time B. And there are some little flashbacks even within the B->C narrative just to make it all the more confusing. So far it is working well though. What I'm trying to do is connect the particular BC and AB stories as they intersect, so if readers read something about the character's distant past in AB, it directly impinges on the events occuring in BC. Hopefully I can keep that up. Another thing I'm doing is putting down place and date about each section of narrative.

I'll be very interested to hear about the strategies you use as your book develops.

Puma · Mar 18, 2009

If your flashbacks are applicable to the part of the siege story you're telling at the time of the flashback - sort of the whys for particular actions - it should work. But, as a reader, there have been times when I've been extremely frustrated with authors for interrupting the ongoing story with flashback or explanatory information which isn't advancing the story. In a way it's a bit like using footnotes - if I take time from what I'm reading to check the footnote, I've interrupted my train of thought and my forward progress slows. The footnote may be extremely interesting, but it takes me out of the moment. ... Just some more food for thought. Puma

Jerry Cornelius · Mar 18, 2009

This is quite a common postmodernist technique, e.g. Thomas Pynchon. To avoid Jonathan Safran Foer-like criticism, my advice would be to ensure this really is the best way of telling the story. Simply make sure it feels genuine, which should come naturally if indeed this is something you're comfortable with.

Doogs · Mar 18, 2009

Thanks to everyone for the great input...I finally got the chance to sit down and devote some more time to thinking this through last night, and now I'm no longer sure it's the best way to go. There are some certain events that spark Alaric's move against Rome that I wouldn't be able to keep for a great reveal some ways into the story, which could make this execution really difficult. That and it would force me to abandon the absolutely killer first chapter I've already mapped out in the chronological progression.

Now comes the fun part of figuring out which events to omit or gloss over in order to bring the story in around the length I'm aiming for.

Jerry Cornelius · Mar 18, 2009

I think you've made the right choice in that case.

BardSkye · Mar 22, 2009

On a related note, I'm wondering what the best approach for my storyline would be. I've got two sets of characters that converge. Melchior's storyline will be a fairly concise history but covers some 15 years in time. Gaspar's only covers about 15 months. I'm trying to decide whether to do it in three parts, ie. Melchior - Gaspar - Both, or a few chapters of each line until they converge.

Would you as a reader find it confusing to have alternating lines that don't cover the same period of elapsed time?

pdr · Mar 22, 2009

It's a...

fairly common usage to have two different characters have their turn to tell their story chapter by chapter.

Just clue the reader in with the name at the top of each chapter.

lkp · Mar 23, 2009

Bard, I don't think it would be confusing in your case, because we know all those three characters, and we know (something of) what is going to happen to them. So if you tell us stories about the three before they meet up, we're not going to be thinking, "Why is the author telling us these separate stories about three random people?" We know they meet up eventually, and we will be waiting for that moment and enjoying the "who they were before..." bits.

MargoWest · Mar 25, 2009

I see this used pretty often in historical fiction, especially because there are many stories told as if the character is very old and telling the story of their life. Shouldn't be a problem.

BardSkye · Mar 25, 2009

Appreciate the input. I was leaning towards the alternating chapters. Oh, it's so glorious to have time to write again!

timewaster · Mar 27, 2009

BardSkye said:
On a related note, I'm wondering what the best approach for my storyline would be. I've got two sets of characters that converge. Melchior's storyline will be a fairly concise history but covers some 15 years in time. Gaspar's only covers about 15 months. I'm trying to decide whether to do it in three parts, ie. Melchior - Gaspar - Both, or a few chapters of each line until they converge.

Would you as a reader find it confusing to have alternating lines that don't cover the same period of elapsed time?

It can be confusing in a braided narrative because unless you make it very clear, readers tend to assume that the different plot lines are happening simultaneously. If you are dealing with events that bring the two characters togehter over several years or months then I think you need to flag that somehow in the text so that the reader knows what kind of narrative they are getting. You could have a chapter on what Gaspar was doing fifteen years previously which maybe foreshadows what he will do later? Chunking the narrative could be a bit clumsy - how will you manage the converged narrative?

Suse · Mar 27, 2009

I don't know what the Lost approach is as I've never watched it. The book I'm reading just now is split into supposedly chronological chapters, but the only reason I know this is because the chapters have titles. In practice, each chapter jumps here, there and everywhere and has only a loose chronological thread. It works well because its told in the first person by a commanding narrator. I think it would be a hard trick to pull off in the first person, let alone if Alaric is in the third person.

For alternating story lines told in a braided narrative, you could always put the date at the start of the chapters. I think it could work, and it would be better than 3 separate parts, where the reader might lose track of the earlier action - I'm presuming the three parts come together at the end. There might be a little reader confusion, flicking back to check the dates of earlier action to see how it all ties up. It's going to be a trade off between a little distraction and telling a good story.

BardSkye · Mar 27, 2009

I've presently got the chapters headed "Melchior, 12BC," "Gaspar, 6BC" and the like, so there shouldn't be too much confusion about the actual timeline; they're just not moving at the same speed. Melchior's story needs to start much earlier to provide the background for the events (which come to a head in Jerusalem) but Gaspar's backstory doesn't need to be much more than a few sentances. (Balthazar hasn't yet spoken to me and will probably just end up as an extra.) The two timelines converge in Jerusalem when Gaspar arrives and ticks Herod off, then both characters join forces.

The problem as I see it with doing it in chunks instead of alternating chapters, is that readers will almost always find one character more interesting than the other and are more likely to skip the less interesting one if they have to read a third of a book to get back to what appeals to them. Then when the timelines converge, they'll have missed half the clues or reasons a character does or doesn't do something.

I'll probably end up letting my betas decide which works better, though I'm still leaning towards alternating.

timewaster · Mar 28, 2009

I'll probably end up letting my betas decide which works better, though I'm still leaning towards alternating.[/quote]

I think alternating usually works better because you can switch voices at interesting times and have the narratives bounce of each other with thematic echoes etc.
It doesn't actually get rid of the problem of the reader preferring one character over the other though, there isn't much you can do about that.

Suse · Mar 28, 2009

timewaster said:
It doesn't actually get rid of the problem of the reader preferring one character over the other though, there isn't much you can do about that.

Except make both characters equally fascinating, as I'm trying to do with Achilleus and Helen! Mythology has given me a helping hand there. Good luck, BardSkye. I'd love to read a bit of your story if you ever submit for a crit. I'm fascinated by the period.

timewaster · Mar 28, 2009

Surprisingly some people will still prefer one over the other. They just will ; )

BardSkye · Mar 28, 2009

Suse said:
I'd love to read a bit of your story if you ever submit for a crit. I'm fascinated by the period.

Gaspar will be showing up for the April challenge.

OpheliaRevived · Apr 3, 2009

I love non linear novels. I think it gives a richness to the text if properly done. I know that I, as a person, don't have strictly linear thought. I think this format works best with a first person narrative, but that's just my inexperienced opinion as an avid reader and novice writer.

Historicals and non-linear structure?

Doogs

pdr

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angeliz2k

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