How to format thoughts

ChristopherPinnock · Mar 16, 2009

How do you format the thoughts of a character? I read where an editor wrote somethings about underline, instead of using the italic font. I'd like to know how to format a character's thought. I had used the monotype cursivia font.

Please and Thanks.

ChaosTitan · Mar 16, 2009

I use Times New Roman and simply italicize the thoughts.

Some people still recommend underlining instead of italics if you use a font that makes it harder to see the italics (like Courier). But otherwise, underlining is pretty old school. Most editors accept italics.

FennelGiraffe · Mar 16, 2009

That's actually two separate questions.

1. How do you format direct internal thought? Italics is a common method but not the only possibility. However, switching to a different font is wrong.

2. How do you indicate italics in manuscript format? The old standard called for underlining where italics were meant. That's rapidly becoming obsolete. Many editors are fine with you going ahead and using italics. A few still insist on underlining.

dpaterso · Mar 16, 2009

Moving this thread to Basic Writing Questions forum, where it probably belongs.

Take a peek at FAQ: Cathy C's Formatting Manuscripts for Submission - All your questions answered! in FAQs forum, which covers just about everything.

-Derek

The Lonely One · Mar 16, 2009

In many instances, I see no need to do anything format-wise to indicate thoughts. Tags and strong writing can be enough. It depends on what you're comfortable with, though.

Sune · Mar 16, 2009

He sat at his desk as it struck him. Instead of formatting thoughts, you could maybe just fraze it differently.

He sat at his desk as it struck him that instead of formatting thoughts you could maybe just fraze it differently.

Just a thought.

S

dreamsofnever · Mar 16, 2009

The Lonely One said:
In many instances, I see no need to do anything format-wise to indicate thoughts. Tags and strong writing can be enough. It depends on what you're comfortable with, though.

Exactly. It's a matter of preference, but I used to use italics for thoughts and I really got sick of italicizing things.

I still have internal thoughts expressed, and I haven't heard complaints from any of my beta readers on confusion over this.

But then again, I write in third person close POV, so while I'm writing in third person, I'm right there in my character's head for a lot of it so I think POV might make the difference in how you communicate your characters' thoughts.

Then again, if you're not in either a close third person POV or a first person POV, you typically shouldn't be expressing character thoughts to begin with.

Sorry. I think I'm rambling. That's what happens when you try to postpone tackling writer's block by posing on AW.

And by the way, Welcome to AW, Christopher!

RJK · Mar 16, 2009

Christopher and Sune welcome to AW. I beleive the Lonely One is providing the best advise. Properly phrased, you don't need to change formatting at all. Just be consistent.

James81 · Mar 16, 2009

RJK said:
Christopher and Sune welcome to AW. I beleive the Lonely One is providing the best advise. Properly phrased, you don't need to change formatting at all. Just be consistent.

I'm not sure you can just avoid formatting.

If you use a tag (like "he thought"), then I'm pretty sure it needs to be italicized.

Wow, that was weird, he thought.

as opposed to:

Jerry thought it was really weird.

Sune · Mar 16, 2009

I think my point actually was, that I agree with mr. Lonely (and I'll give you a hug if you swing by) in that frazing it properly can solve the issue in most cases. But you are right James, you can't always avoid it. The basic problem is to distinguish said things from thought things. "And since the rules are extremely clear on how to write it when someone says something", he said and shifted his legs before he continued: "And very unclear when it comes to writing internal monologues...". He grew quiet and finished the sentence quietly, walking away from the desk. You'll probably just have to make up some rules for yourself and be consistent around them.

The Lonely One · Mar 16, 2009

James81 said:
I'm not sure you can just avoid formatting.

If you use a tag (like "he thought"), then I'm pretty sure it needs to be italicized.

Wow, that was weird, he thought.

as opposed to:

Jerry thought it was really weird.

Oddly I've seen both spoken lines without quotes and thoughts without italics in published fiction.

John Dufresne frequently does both. However, and it could just be the genres I'm reading, but I find thoughts are more often not italicized.

Wow, that was weird, he thought. Or: He thought, Wow, that was weird. Depending on which works.

Jerry thought it was really weird.

Nothing wrong with the line, it's just a matter of who's voice it comes from. This happens to be the narrator relaying Jerry's thoughts, in summary. It's not a direct quote, thus it's filtered through whatever voice the narrator possesses (and them's a lot of s'es!).

Jerry thought, That was really weird.

That one's right from the horses mouth. That is, if Jerry is a horse... That means it has to come across in Jerry's voice. Which could mean you've got to switch it up to fit how he'd say it. Like:

Jerry thought, What the fudge Popsicle t'was that?

Or, whatever. You get the idea...

Elidibus · Mar 17, 2009

Can I chime in here too? I dunno what it is about me, but having thoughts italicized is really annyong for me to read. I'm with Lonely One and the others

He sat at his desk as it struck him. Of course! Instead of formatting thoughts you could maybe just phrase it differently.

I see no need for the tag "he thought" anywhere here. But I'm a newbie too. But to give another example.

Jerry went into the freezer to grab a fudge Popcicle. But they were already gone? That was really weird. Wonder who the culprit behind this was.

That's just how I always did it. Just seemed easier since I hate flipping up to the top and clicking the Italics symbol on and off and I don't know how to type it in the story to format it.

James81 · Mar 17, 2009

Elidibus said:
Can I chime in here too? I dunno what it is about me, but having thoughts italicized is really annyong for me to read.

I'm just the opposite.

I like it when thoughts are italicized, because that way I know exactly when the character is thinking those exact words.

scribbler1382 · Mar 17, 2009

Whether thoughts are underlined, italicized or decorated with gold tinsel, has to do with whether the thoughts are direct or indirect. Indirect thoughts need no such emphasis:

He wasn't sure if he could do this.

Whereas direct thoughts do:

Can I do this?

Of course, that's just a general guideline, and you're likely to see a ton of variants in published works. And while adding a thought tag to direct thoughts, especially when emphasized, is redundant, sometimes the flow of the text demands it, IMO.

qwerty · Mar 17, 2009

As Chaos said, underlining to denote italics is "old school". It comes from the days of typewriters that didn't offer the facility of italicised font but often had a font like courier.

Because I use italics for emphasize - as in, when someone says "How dare you!" - I tend to read them in a loud voice. Which I find distracting when thoughts are in italics.

Thoughts can simply be shown as not dialogue by not putting them in quote marks.

tehuti88 · Mar 17, 2009

James81 said:
I'm just the opposite.

I like it when thoughts are italicized, because that way I know exactly when the character is thinking those exact words.

Ditto with me. I've read both italicized and non-italicized in published works (sometimes even in the same work!--talk about consistency) and I just prefer italics. It's clearer to me. It annoys me when italics aren't there because it sounds like the writing is switching from third to first person--in a rephrased example to avoid italics given earlier in this post, it even switches to second person ( "you" ). I don't mistake italicized text for emphasized words if quotes are around it since that clarifies the usage. And I don't find italics hard to read. That's just my opinion, and as the OP has clearly seen, everyone's views are different.

I'm also in agreement with scribbler1382's views regarding italics for direct thoughts and no italics for indirect statements of thoughts. (And, yes, sometimes I do have to use a thought tag even when it's obvious it's a thought. Mainly because my characters think both to themselves, and communicate telepathically. *shrug*)

Like I said though, that's just me. Consistency is the best thing. Either italicize, or don't.

James81 · Mar 17, 2009

I'd be interested in seeing what the *official* stance is on this.

Anybody have an English reference source of some kind that we can quote from?

I mean, personal opinions are nice, but it's also nice to know the nuts and bolts too.

ChaosTitan · Mar 17, 2009

I don't think there is an "official" stance on this. Pick up six different books, in different POV's and tenses, and you'll see a variety of ways to use italics or not use them. No matter which one you decide, the biggest lesson I learned from my editor is BE CONSISTENT.

My book is first person, past tense. The entire narrative is from the POV of my heroine, so the events are all filtered through her perception, told in her voice. But once in a while, I italicized a line or two of internal dialogue--she's basically talking directly to herself. She doesn't do it often, but those are what I italicize. And it's probably a style point, but I never use:

Focus, girl, before you get yourself killed, I thought.

"I thought" is extraneous. It looks weird, and obviously she's the one thinking it.

The Lonely One · Mar 17, 2009

scribbler1382 said:
And while adding a thought tag to direct thoughts, especially when emphasized, is redundant, sometimes the flow of the text demands it, IMO.

But isn't that a bit like saying a "said" tag is redundant after a quote?

Ivan · Mar 17, 2009

Or you can just proceed the thought in normal font to confuse or suck up the reader, and just make - slash - he was thinking line at the end.

ChaosTitan · Mar 17, 2009

The Lonely One said:
But isn't that a bit like saying a "said" tag is redundant after a quote?

Nope. Said tags are used to identify the speaker in any given conversation.

Unless you're doing something very wrong, the reader should know whose POV we're in, therefore who's doing the thinking.

The Lonely One · Mar 17, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
Nope. Said tags are used to identify the speaker in any given conversation.

Unless you're doing something very wrong, the reader should know whose POV we're in, therefore who's doing the thinking.

That's true, POV is a bit more clearcut in typical prose fiction. However, I still don't see the problem with the "he thought" tag. "I thought," yeah that's a bit much in most cases. But especially with those who don't use italics for thoughts, I continue to see it constantly in print. I know there's that "just because someone else does it, doesn't mean you can" thing everyone likes to say. But this is such a common thing I feel compelled to argue it.

I will remain by this river, thought Siddhartha.

Hermann Hesse. Granted the book's a bit older, but not THAT old. I've seen it so often that I think it's a non-point. Without the tag, in this instance, it falls into first person, or extremely strange and stilted third person.

Perhaps an example of how cutting the tag works more efficiently within a paragraph? As it stands, I can't truly believe an "he thought" tag is any less invisible than an "he said" tag.

ChaosTitan · Mar 17, 2009

Question: Is the thought you quoted set apart by italics?

If a thought is italicized, whether it's first or third person, I'd argue against using a thought tag. To me, it is redundant.

If, however, you have chosen to not italicize the thought, then a thought tag is pretty much necessary.

So yeah, I think we're mostly agreeing.

The Lonely One · Mar 17, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
Question: Is the thought you quoted set apart by italics?

If a thought is italicized, whether it's first or third person, I'd argue against using a thought tag. To me, it is redundant.

If, however, you have chosen to not italicize the thought, then a thought tag is pretty much necessary.

So yeah, I think we're mostly agreeing.

Ah. Then yes, yes we are.

*blushes.

James81 · Mar 17, 2009

ChaosTitan said:
I don't think there is an "official" stance on this. Pick up six different books, in different POV's and tenses, and you'll see a variety of ways to use italics or not use them. No matter which one you decide, the biggest lesson I learned from my editor is BE CONSISTENT.

But there ARE reference materials that are more legit than others.

Like I would say Strunks "Elements of Style" is a pretty legit reference.

Grammar for Dummies....not so much.

How to format thoughts

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