UK/US Spelling and Slang

Keep it one way, unless the character picks up US spellings and pronunciations.

Really, it only takes and editor, or you, a short time to switch the spell checker from UK to US English. If you submit to a US publishing house, and they want US spelling, they may ask you to correct and re-submit as part of their edit process.

Seriously, let the agent handle all that. Just write the story. The agent will know a publisher's preferences, and can advise you if you need to change them.

If you feel concern, sometime after the initial query process let them know you are willing and able to switch the spellings if a publisher prefers one or the other.

So this agent expected a novel set in the UK to contain all US slang?

I hope so too. I hate seeing American books set in the UK, where the characters use US slang 'just because', when it just doesn't ring true.

scarletpeaches said:

I hope so too. I hate seeing American books set in the UK, where the characters use US slang 'just because', when it just doesn't ring true.

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I bought a copy of Clive Barker's The Thief Of Always a couple of years ago. It was an American copy and all the British words (tap, pavement etc) had been replaced by American versions as had any British slang.

It was horrible. And of course the question is, would a British publisher change an American book into British English in case the readers might be confused?

scarletpeaches said:

I hope so too. I hate seeing American books set in the UK, where the characters use US slang 'just because', when it just doesn't ring true.

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Conversely, there shouldn't be a book set in the US that uses all British slang.

Obviously the dialect of language should reflect where the book is set, and who the characters are.

Would a British publisher change an American book into British English in case the readers might be confused?

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Most American slang is known well in Europe via tv, books, movies. However, the same isn't necessarily true the other way around, so it is more common to edit British English. To use an example everyone would be familiar with, Harry Potter - even in the American version - retains quite a bit of British English, because of where it's set. There are, however, many words and phrases that are changed, especially because it's a children's book, and you can't expect an child to understand the differences.

Some phrases can be easily obtained through context. Here are a few they did decide to change in the first book:

"Car Park" was changed to "Parking Lot"
"The baker's opposite" was changed to "The Bakery"
"Her lot" was changed to "Her crowed"
"Cine-camera" was changed to "Video camera"
"Bobble hats" was changed to "Bonnets"
"Mum" was changed to "Mom"
"Have a place" was changed to "Have been accepted"
"Football" was changed to "Soccer"
"Came top of the year" was changed to "Had the best grades of the First Years"

Had this not of been a children's book, some of these might not have been changed at all. "Football" probably would've been left alone, because most adults know what they would be referring to. A child, however, can't be expected to know that Europe has a different name for Soccer than we do. Mum probably would have remained the same too.

Simply: Write what your characters would say. If there is a problem with the language in other countries, it will be fixed later on. Don't worry about it.

My point exactly.

I don't want to read about a Brit strolling along the sidewalk, or an American having a bath after turning the taps.

Chanelley said:

Don't editors change it depending on your country, though? I'm thinking Harry Potter. Did editors change words such as 'jumper', 'pavement', 'lorry' etc to the American versions when being sold in the US? In the UK, it'll be the UK version. When I buy books set in the US from the US, the language is obviously US English. But when I buy a book set in the US from the UK, the language is UK English.

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Like I said, there are a lot of factors that can decide this. For a UK children's book in the United States, they'll probably change a significant amount of wording, just because a child can't be expected to know the differences - and why would they?

But, presuming we're talking about an adult/young adult work, then most publishers will want the dialogue to fit what the character would say in real life. The narrative might warrant some changes, but as long as what is being said can be easily understood through context, then it should be fine.

On the transfer, changing British words to American words seems far more common though. As said above, most American slang is far better known in Europe than the other way around.

If I was reading a book, and an American character called a truck a lorry, that would immediately jump out at me. Though I probably wouldn't really see it if it was the other way around.

How good are you with US slang? Are you certain you are accurate? I would be inclined to leave the UK stuff in and let a native-speaker sort it out later if necessary. Different publishers will have different views on this, and ultimately it will be your US editor who decides.
I did not change any of the UK spellings/saying in my novel when submitting to US agents, and not one of them mentioned it in their comments on it.

Mini rant

TTCleveland said:

Most American slang is known well in Europe via tv, books, movies.

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This is true for one simple reason - other English-speaking countries don't tend to change other people's language - not even for children. I read American as well as English children's books, and that's how I learnt American slang. It's called broadening your mind...

The Harry Potter changes seem horrific to me, because they subscribe to this insidious myth that Americans are more stupid/less broad-minded than other people, and the poor things need more help. It is NOT TRUE! Americans are as capable of understanding other forms of English as anyone.

I once did a TV co-production with finance from Paramount about a serial killer in London. We had a terrific US executive, but even he was forced to ask us to dub some of the English words into US versions for the US release (including, yep, 'tap' into 'faucet'). We even had to change 'telly' into 'TV' - because 'Americans won't understand'. The exec was as offended as we were by the implication his countrymen were that ignorant, and was thoroughly embarrassed by the whole thing. He himself spoke fluent French and (I think) Danish as well as beautiful English, and resented being treated like a xenophobic moron.


The problem we have now is that it's self-perpetuating. Because other countries have the respect to leave US English alone, but the US changes other English to its own, eventually Americans will become ignorant to other people's speech. Already, even on that pit of misinformation firstwriter.com there's a weary disclaimer saying that they are NOT spelling words like 'honour' and 'colour' wrongly, and that these are genuinely acceptable versions in a country called the UK.

Even worse would be if we in the UK started making the same kind of changes. For all I know we already are (it's a long, long time since I was a child) but if we are I think it stinks... Channelley, your remark:

when I buy a book set in the US from the UK, the language is UK English

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suggests it's already happening here. Were these books just badly written by UK writers, or actually edited versions of US originals?

Sorry, rant over. But it upsets me, and I know it upsets a lot of Americans.

So, to answer your question, Channelley, I guess it's up to you. If you're already doing a US version to send to one agent and there's no extra work involved, you might as well send that one to all the US agents. It's quite true your publisher will sort it in the copy edit, but an agent won't. It's good to hear waylander had no problems with it, but there are so many excuses an agent can look for to reject something - why give them one you don't have to?

Louise

Swordswoman said:

The Harry Potter changes seem horrific to me, because they subscribe to this insidious myth that Americans are more stupid/less broad-minded than other people, and the poor things need more help. It is NOT TRUE! Americans are as capable of understanding other forms of English as anyone.

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I disagree with this to a point. I don't think you should expect a child to understand another country's way of speaking. How is a child suppose to know that Europe calls Soccer, Football? Why should they know? There's really no reason.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with culture. Americans don't watch as much British and Foreign programming as other countries do. Simply because most of the viewable movies, a large chunk of popular literature, and such are all made here. More than that, they are targeted to the United States.

The US is the "big market" that foreign publishers will inevitably try to break into, and to do it, they want American readers as comfortable with the reading as possible. That's just the way of the world.

I can't imagine any American deciding against reading a work because a character uses the word "mum," nor can I imagine an Brit deciding against reading a work because of the word "mom." It is, however, a comfort zone issue.

Europeans are "expected" to know most of American slang, just because they see it so much. Americans arn't expected to know much European slang, because it's rare that they will ever hear it. I can't remember the last time I watched a movie where studio making it wasn't American. Even the Harry Potter movies were produced by American companies! ^.^

So it goes.

Actually to be fair, my US publisher only changed ' to ". Spellings and words remained the same ( even the ones one US critter was befuddled by)

Though as it was fantasy I don't suppose they'd have to change too many words anyway

Just one version, please.

Let your eventual publisher figure out what they're going to do with spelling. That will happen at the copyedit stage if it happens at all.

TTCleveland said:

I disagree with this to a point. I don't think you should expect a child to understand another country's way of speaking. How is a child suppose to know that Europe calls Soccer, Football? Why should they know? There's really no reason.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, it has to do with culture. Americans don't watch as much British and Foreign programming as other countries do. Simply because most of the viewable movies, a large chunk of popular literature, and such are all made here. More than that, they are targeted to the United States.

The US is the "big market" that foreign publishers will inevitably try to break into, and to do it, they want American readers as comfortable with the reading as possible. That's just the way of the world.

I can't imagine any American deciding against reading a work because a character uses the word "mum," nor can I imagine an Brit deciding against reading a work because of the word "mom." It is, however, a comfort zone issue.

Europeans are "expected" to know most of American slang, just because they see it so much. Americans arn't expected to know much European slang, because it's rare that they will ever hear it. I can't remember the last time I watched a movie where studio making it wasn't American. Even the Harry Potter movies were produced by American companies! ^.^

So it goes.

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Maybe these so-called Americans you're referring to should learn to appreciate and watch other people's stuff without boxing themselves at home so much as to freak out when they see something that doesn't read like their english.

I remember a couple of American friends of mine complaining that Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter book said, "Mate," and shouldn't have said it. I was like, WTF?

The Harry Potter changes were pretty dumb, honestly.

And not knowing soccer and football are the same thing is being ignorant. Most kids in other countries (here in England as well) know this, except - of course - a lot of American kids, as you say.

True, a lot of people have interests in the American culture, which is why it's so popular everywhere (books, movies, TV programs, actors, etc). And a lot of people know so much about America. It's a shame most Americans know little about others.

Glenakin said:

Maybe these so-called Americans you're referring to should learn to appreciate and watch other people's stuff without boxing themselves at home so much as to freak out when they see something that doesn't read like their english.

I remember a couple of American friends of mine complaining that Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter book said, "Mate," and shouldn't have said it. I was like, WTF?

The Harry Potter changes were pretty dumb, honestly.

And not knowing soccer and football are the same thing is being ignorant. Most kids in other countries (here in England as well) know this, except - of course - a lot of American kids, as you say.

True, a lot of people have interests in the American culture, which is why it's so popular everywhere (books, movies, TV programs, actors, etc). And a lot of people know so much about America. It's a shame most Americans know little about others.

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"So-called" Americans? What does that even mean?

I said an adult would know the soccer/football difference, a child might not. Their really is no reason why they should either, unless they would be a situation where they would need to know.

Other countries may know plenty about American culture, because they make a conscious choice to watch our movies, read our books, watch our tv shows. The opposite is not true. Most European movies and television do not interest me - or most people. It's just a fact of life.

You can't force people to care about your culture. The very premise that everyone should have to is ridiculous. People will live however they want to live, watch whatever they want to watch, and believe whatever they want to believe - it isn't up to you or anyone else to decide it what they "should" or "should not" like.

It is what it is. Just live with it; it isn't a big deal.

TTCleveland said:

"So-called" Americans? What does that even mean?

I said an adult would know the soccer/football difference, a child might not. Their really is no reason why they should either, unless they would be a situation where they would need to know.

Other countries may know plenty about American culture, because they make a conscious choice to watch our movies, read our books, watch our tv shows. The opposite is not true. Most European movies and television do not interest me - or most people. It's just a fact of life.

You can't force people to care about your culture. The very premise that everyone should have to is ridiculous. People will live however they want to live, watch whatever they want to watch, and believe whatever they want to believe - it isn't up to you or anyone else to decide it what they "should" or "should not" like.

Just live with it. It isn't a big deal.

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Lol no one is asking Americans to force themselves to appreciate other people's stuff. But when a book is written in English but with a different slang, why would you want it changed? I see it as a way of learning. If I read an American book that called something A that was known as B in England, I'd be like, "Oh, is that so? I didn't know that." Maybe you would too. But a lot of Americans wouldn't. They'd go, "What the? Why couldn't they just say B instead of A? B is lame. A is way better."

That's what I meant.

Glenakin said:

But when a book is written in English but with a different slang, why would you want it changed? I see it as a way of learning.

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And some other people will see it as annoying. Enough people, apparently, to warrant the changing of the book text.

Glenakin said:

If I read an American book that called something A that was known as B in England, I'd be like, "Oh, is that so? I didn't know that." Maybe you would too. But a lot of Americans wouldn't. They'd go, "What the? Why couldn't they just say B instead of A? B is lame. A is way better."

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Because the scenario isn't the same. Americans typically don't watch much foreign television - it's available, it just isn't very interesting to most. The other way around though, non-Americans watching American television and cinema is very common.

Different people like different things. If someone wants to read a book in their own dialect of English, that's their business. It isn't up to anyone to say it's wrong - because it isn't.

Perhaps I'm an unusual American in that I kinda LIKE to learn things from other cultures in other areas of the world. I've known for a long time about aluminum/aluminium and elevator/lift, but I've only learned many other non-American English words since I got on international Internet forums. When I saw a British guy write +ve and -ve I thought it was his own personal shorthand for positive and negative, but since then I've seen those use in other informal British writings. There's the infamous (to Americans) English girl who says "You can knock me up anytime." Then I saw Lorry, and had the hardest time trying to figure out what it meant until I stumbled on something that indicated it means truck in "American."

I think American kids SHOULD be told that the word for Soccer in Europe is football - more and more American kids play soccer and/or (American) football, and if they happen to watch some big European soccer championship, they should know why the announcers are calling the game football.

benbradley said:

Perhaps I'm an unusual American in that I kinda LIKE to learn things from other cultures in other areas of the world. I've known for a long time about aluminum/aluminium and elevator/lift, but I've only learned many other non-American English words since I got on international Internet forums. When I saw a British guy write +ve and -ve I thought it was his own personal shorthand for positive and negative, but since then I've seen those use in other informal British writings. There's the infamous (to Americans) English girl who says "You can knock me up anytime." Then I saw Lorry, and had the hardest time trying to figure out what it meant until I stumbled on something that indicated it means truck in "American."

I think American kids SHOULD be told that the word for Soccer in Europe is football - more and more American kids play soccer and/or (American) football, and if they happen to watch some big European soccer championship, they should know why the announcers are calling the game football.

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That's a good thing. I don't think there's anything with children learning what other countries call things. I do think it's wrong (and very pretentious) for it to be expected though, or to question the intelligence of someone who really just doesn't care about the difference.

I personally think the differences and how they came to be are interesting, but there are other people who will just find it annoying. Neither is wrong, they're just opinions.

Anyway, the OP's question was answered again by Uncle Jim, and a few others. I therefore call for a thread party:

Okay, gang, this is not an issue to get heated over.

I'm going to side with Uncle Jim on this. Write what you know best and let the publisher's editors sort it out. If a masculine character wears suspenders and a fanny pack on the east side of the Atlantic, the editors should know to change it on the west side or suffer the consequences. It wouldn't hurt the author to know these things (or some of them), which is why travel is one of an author's best friends, but this is where the author-editor teamwork comes into play.

If American versus British (or Australian) spelling/slang use turns out to be the deciding factor in acceptance of a novel, the story probably wasn't one of those "damn good stories" in the first place.

TTCleveland said:

I disagree with this to a point. I don't think you should expect a child to understand another country's way of speaking. How is a child suppose to know that Europe calls Soccer, Football? Why should they know? There's really no reason.

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Are you serious? Children are in their prime for learning new words, and reading is one form of feeding their hunger. They learn so many new words compared with adults that it's unfair NOT to expose them to a broad range of words from whatever nationality. "Oh, don't say 'bon apetit' before eating - it'll confuse the kids". There is *every* reason!