Points of view

fancie · Mar 15, 2009

I have several characters in my book. What is a good rule to follow in changing the points of view during chapters?

Prozyan · Mar 15, 2009

How is the POV changing? Are two characters in one room, told from the POV of one of the characters, then the other wanders off into another room and the POV shifts to him?

Line breaks are a good way in these cases.

Dale Emery · Mar 15, 2009

The usual way is to switch POV at a new scene or a new chapter. And when you switch, make sure you establish the new POV very, very quickly.

Some books rotate among a small number of POV characters, one per chapter.

Others give the bulk of the scenes to the main character, somewhat fewer to an important secondary character, and fewer still to one or two other important characters. If you're going to do that, it's usually a good idea to use a secondary character's POV fairly early (within a few scenes), so that readers know early in the story that there will be multiple POVs.

Every now and then someone pulls off the advanced technique of switching POVs multiple times within scenes. It takes great skill to do this smoothly, and it's rarely necessary for the story. So if you're still learning how to handle POV (which I gather from your question) I don't recommend this advanced approach.

Dale

qwerty · Mar 16, 2009

The rule I was taught is not more than one POV per scene. And, as has been said, a line break is appropriate between scenes.

tehuti88 · Mar 16, 2009

Ditto on the deal concerning scene breaks to separate POVs. This is the technique I almost always use.

Very, very rarely, I'll switch POV in the middle of a scene, but I notice that I do it in such a way that it makes it clear a POV switch is happening. The example that comes to mind is a scene where there were two groups of people in canoes on opposite sides of a river. I was in the POV of a character in one canoe, then I realized the POV had switched to the MC in the other canoe some distance away. I wondered if I should try to redo the scene to avoid this, but it really was the only way I could convey it properly; a scene break was too jarring to split up what was essentially the same scene, just from different eyes. I saw that when the POV switch happened, I started a new paragraph with something like, "Over in the other canoe..." like a camera had switched from showing what was going on in the first canoe to what was going on in the MC's canoe, thus changing POV.

I don't recommend doing this if you're new to POV changes, but if there's ever a reason why you absolutely can't use a scene break, I'd suggest using a similar technique, like the whole "Meanwhile, over on the other side of the room..." approach. Usually a scene break will suffice in place of a "meanwhile," but for some reason I couldn't pull it off with this scene without breaking the action.

scarletpeaches · Mar 16, 2009

fancie said:
I have several characters in my book. What is a good rule to follow in changing the points of view during chapters?

Don't.

Zipotes · Mar 16, 2009

I like to devote an entire chapter to one POV so it's less confusing.

thethinker42 · Mar 16, 2009

I skip a line and put a "#" in between the lines. Then make it very clear that I'm now in someone else's head.

Use in moderation.

scarletpeaches · Mar 16, 2009

Yes. What she said, to be serious.

Scene breaks. These are why baby Jesus invented the hash mark.

#

thethinker42 · Mar 16, 2009

scarletpeaches said:
Yes. What she said, to be serious.

Scene breaks. These are why baby Jesus invented the hash mark.

#

Exactly. I'm speaking in my POV.

#

And now I am in scarletpeaches' POV. I hate thethinker42.

#

And we're back to thethinker42. Scarletpeaches, I'll smack you.

Etc.

(The extra wide screen is totally chagrining my formatting dazzling here...)

maestrowork · Mar 16, 2009

thethinker42 said:
Exactly. I'm speaking in my POV.

#

And now I am in scarletpeaches' POV. I hate thethinker42.

#

And we're back to thethinker42. Scarletpeaches, I'll smack you.

Etc.

(The extra wide screen is totally chagrining my formatting dazzling here...)

Gosh, one of you is enough. Two at the same time? Save me, hash or no hash.

But yes, if you want to switch POVs, do a scene change.

FennelGiraffe · Mar 16, 2009

It's important to show the new POV immediately after the break: definitely in the first paragraph, preferably in the first sentence. Don't start out with a bunch of general stuff that could be from anyone's POV.

RJK · Mar 16, 2009

@tehuti - if you look closely at what you've written, you actually have two scenes. When you write "Over in the other canoe" you are in another place, therefore, a new scene. You just did it without using the hash mark and line break.

Also, I don't want to start an international incident, but I think the hash mark should be placed at the left margin, not centered.

cwfgal · Mar 16, 2009

RJK said:
Also, I don't want to start an international incident, but I think the hash mark should be placed at the left margin, not centered.

My publishers' style sheets have both stated it should be three of them, centered.

Beth

fancie · Mar 16, 2009

Great! Thanks!!!

Nateskate · Mar 16, 2009

I have a side that recognizes conventional wisdom, and also an artistic side that says rules are made to be broken.

Ultimately, rules are rules because in most cases they work. Don't shun them. If you break rules you're taking a risk. With that said, if you can make something work then give it a shot.

The early Thomas Covenant books bothered me because the POV of Thomas Covenant was at times infuriating. He lacked insight and was a perpetual accident waiting to happen. And so you could begin to foresee that in every case he would do something stupid, and the reader is left hoping he would bumble into success.

The story-multiple series- became more interesting when the author began switching up POV. It was refreshing and showed growth and added dimension, and I found myself liking much of the story despite the rocky beginning.

mayamolly · Mar 16, 2009

If you want to switch point of view, I'd also suggest working VERY VERY hard to make each POV distinct. You have to be even more careful to give each character a separate voice and attitude (even in 3rd person) and never waver from showing only what they would see, how they would see it. I've read books that do this well and books that do this really badly... I love good POV-switching when it's done well, though!

Glenakin · Mar 16, 2009

One POV per scene. But I have seen more than one POVs in one long scene, though done rarely and expertly.

job · Mar 16, 2009

If you want to switch POV in the middle of a scene, quietly, zipping from head to head without adding a hiatus,
you can do so.
Lots of writers use this technique.

But it's hard. I don't do this because the technique is hard and I have not learned to do it well enough.

You learn how to do this sort of in-scene POV switch by
a) studying POV in general,
b) finding a bunch of books that switch POV in the middle of scenes and watching how they do it and deciding why it works or doesn't work.

maestrowork · Mar 16, 2009

Zipping from head to head is only recommended for omniscient. Even then, I'd recommend against it -- the best omniscient narration is rather focused and doesn't just hop from one head to another at will.

LOG · Mar 16, 2009

I recommend taking a look at Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, for the first books he stays with the MC, second book you see him switch every once in awhile. He keeps switching more and more with each book, until eventually it can even become hard to keep track of everyone, which I thought was bad.
So the lesson there is to keep down just how many PoV's you have running.

Birol · Mar 16, 2009

cwfgal said:
My publishers' style sheets have both stated it should be three of them, centered.

Beth

It varies from place to place. Be certain to follow the individual guidelines, or at least be consistent.

Sirion · Mar 16, 2009

Typically only change POV on chapter changes. Even then it should be rare.

courtneyv · Mar 16, 2009

TTCleveland said:
Typically only change POV on chapter changes. Even then it should be rare.

I don't understand how it should be rare. Many authors today use multiple POVs. It's important to be consistent and non jarring, but a writer can change POVs within a chapter if a scene break is clearly shown, as many have already stated in the thread.

I typically have no more than three or four scenes per chapter, but in This Present Darkness Frank Peretti jumps POV several times from angels to people in the first chapter even with scene breaks and it's not jarring. It all depends on the story being told and the author's ability to tell it.

Dale Emery · Mar 16, 2009

courtneyv said:
It all depends on the story being told and the author's ability to tell it.

Yes.

I think that's where the "rare" comes from: It's rare for a story to be well served by multiple POVs within a scene. It's rare for an author to have skill in switching POVs within a scene. Neither is unheard of; both are rare. For multiple mid-scene POV switches to work well, both of those rare things have to be true at the same time.

Dale

Points of view

And it was so.

Are you one, Herbert?

is way off topic

exiled Brit

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Abnormal Romance Author

Abnormal Romance Author

Fear the Death Ray

It's green they say

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

On the rocks

And it was so.

I haz a pomegranate

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Fear the Death Ray

Lagrangian

Around and About

practical experience, FTW

is way off topic