Chapterless

Stunted · Mar 11, 2009

Hi guys. Basically, I'm writing a novel with no chapters. It's just a string of scenes, which range from about 1 page to 10 pages long, till the end. Do you think this will make it harder to publish?

eyeblink · Mar 12, 2009

Plenty of novels are published without chapters, so it's unlikely to be the reason why your MS is accepted or rejected.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 12, 2009

Is it well-written?

maestrowork · Mar 12, 2009

If you keep the agent or editor turning pages, chances are they wouldn't notice there are no chapters.

James81 · Mar 12, 2009

I hate reading books that have no chapter breaks.

Chapter breaks are usually where I stop reading to go do something else because it's easier to come back and pick up from a new chapter, than in the middle of one.

But there are books out there that don't have chapters, so go for it.

Shara · Mar 12, 2009

I agree that there are plenty of books without chapters out there so they are getting published.

It's a matter of personal preference. Personally they drive me crazy - I too like to finish reading a book at the end of a chapter!

But the Discworld books don't have chapters and they are hugely successful so I don't think it makes a difference to publishing success!

Shara

mlstreets · Mar 12, 2009

Segques

Stunted said:
Hi guys. Basically, I'm writing a novel with no chapters. It's just a string of scenes, which range from about 1 page to 10 pages long, till the end. Do you think this will make it harder to publish?

I think you can pull it off if the segways are smooth and seamless. The level of flow will prove this too you. best Regards Morgan Lawrence

Pink Ink · Mar 12, 2009

Tess Uriza Holthe does this in When The Elephants Dance. No chapter breaks, just double spacing between scenes, but she does break the book up into parts (when the POV changes).

I've heard just writing the story without worrying about chapters is a pretty good way of getting the story down. After this draft, you can always look back and reconsider.

NeuroFizz · Mar 12, 2009

Stunted said:
Hi guys. Basically, I'm writing a novel with no chapters. It's just a string of scenes, which range from about 1 page to 10 pages long, till the end. Do you think this will make it harder to publish?

I have a series of questions that are of interest to me (and maybe to others) since this is a somewhat unusual (but not unheard of) way of writing a story.

What is/are your reason(s) for writing it like this? (This is an important question) Is it just to be different, to try to stand out from the crowd? Is it a personal challenge?

I presume you have some kind of scene breaks to indicate the end of one scene and the beginning of the next scene. How is this different from chapters other than the breaks don't have "Chapter X" and "Chapter Y" stuck in the breaks?

Does this organization advance the story in a way regular chapter organization doesn't?

Since writing is all about the readers, do you think this is the best way to convey your story to the readers (and why)?

I'm always interested in innovative methods of writing, but I like to get insight into the reasons/goals of the innovations. Others here may have additional questions. Thanks.

Antaeus · Mar 12, 2009

As others have mentioned above, there have been novels without chapter breaks. I really use chapters to organize my writing as much as to give the reader a pace, particularly since my individual chapters are, I think, a bit on the lengthly side. I'll use Chapter breaks to separate milestones or the 'mini-story events' in my story, and especially for sizable leaps forward in the timeline.

I don't really think that not having chapter breaks would be that bad for me, personally; I tend to finish reading whenever, and just stick in a bookmark. The only possible risk might be that the narrative would basically be a constant stream, without a page break that most new chapters use.

For me, the page break a lot of the books I've read in transitioning to a new chapter almost says 'okay, let's take a few seconds to reflect on what's happened in the last chapter, proceed when you're ready.' But I could still read a novel without chapters. ^_^

FennelGiraffe · Mar 12, 2009

Stunted said:
Hi guys. Basically, I'm writing a novel with no chapters. It's just a string of scenes, which range from about 1 page to 10 pages long, till the end. Do you think this will make it harder to publish?

I don't know what your reason is for wanting to avoid chapters, but if worrying about them is getting in the way of your writing process, there's another alternative. Some people write first draft straight through without breaking it up. They wait until a later draft to decide which scene breaks get promoted to chapter breaks.

blacbird · Mar 12, 2009

I ask a related version of the question FennelGiraffe just implied: Why are you avoiding chapter breaks? I'm not sayiing you can't, or even shouldn't, just that I don't see a reason for doing so from what you say in the OP. So it's a question for you to answer for yourself. I'd suggest that, if you're doing it just because you can, or because if feels cool, you might want to reconsider. To me, that would come across as just gimmicky, like alternative spelling or leaving out the letter "m".

While there are books with no chapter breaks, there are plenty more with chapter breaks that are really nothing but scene breaks, and are there simply for reading experience punctuation. You don't have to have giant crevass points in your story to provide a chapter break. In fact, between almost any of the scenes you say you are writing, you could probably put one.

caw

KikiteNeko · Mar 12, 2009

If you have scene breaks, why not have chapter breaks?

In any case, if it's well written and you get an agent, he/she will tell you if you should add chapters.

Stunted · Mar 12, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
What is/are your reason(s) for writing it like this? (This is an important question) Is it just to be different, to try to stand out from the crowd? Is it a personal challenge?

It's sort of hard to explain. All of the scenes are sort of little "day in the life" things. It seems inappropriate to mark them with big "NEW CHAPTER" type things. Also, they all flow into each other (hopefully) in sort of a delicate way. When you read from one to the other, it works, but if your concentration breaks for a chapter, it might mess it up. Furthurmore, I don't think there are any places that break strongly enough for a new chapter.

NeuroFizz said:
I presume you have some kind of scene breaks to indicate the end of one scene and the beginning of the next scene. How is this different from chapters other than the breaks don't have "Chapter X" and "Chapter Y" stuck in the breaks?

Yes. Double space. Besides the aforementioned things, there are a lot of them, and they're all really short. So if they were all new chapters, it'd be sort of ridiculous.

NeuroFizz said:
Does this organization advance the story in a way regular chapter organization doesn't?

Since writing is all about the readers, do you think this is the best way to convey your story to the readers (and why)?

I'm always interested in innovative methods of writing, but I like to get insight into the reasons/goals of the innovations. Others here may have additional questions. Thanks.

I think I answered all this. Right?

NeuroFizz · Mar 12, 2009

Sounds reasonable and carefully thought out. As you progress through beta readers and submisisons and eventually to editors, let us know how each person reacts. It will be cool to follow it through the process. And if this is the best way for you to tell your story, stick to your guns, short of jeopardizing publication, of course.

Glenakin · Mar 12, 2009

maestrowork said:
If you keep the agent or editor turning pages, chances are they wouldn't notice there are no chapters.

Just like he said.

But, @ OP, is there a good reason for this? I mean, if it doesn't work with your story and ends up confusing the reader, it may not be a good idea.

KikiteNeko · Mar 12, 2009

Oh! Another thing. Have you considered, rather than chapters, naming the sections? If they're short sections, and say four or five of them are related, you could group them up that way. I've seen books that do that.

eyeblink · Mar 12, 2009

I've written short stories with chapters and novels without them. My present nearing-completion WIP has three parts but no chapters - a triple asterisk indicates a viewpoint change (there are three major POV characters and two minor ones) and a single asterisk for a scene break or lapse of time without changing viewpoint character.

My other WIP is first person (present tense, one viewpoint) throughout, with linebreaks between scenes but no chapters.

Another other idea I'm planning will most likely have lots of named subdivisions (chapters if you prefer) and a fourth idea will be in sections named for which one of three characters we're in the viewpoint of.

Some of my favourite writers don't usechapters - almost all of Jennifer Johnston's novels for one, Red Shift by Alan Garner doesn't have them...and so on.

For me it's a rhythm thing, which is as individual and hard to define as anything in writing. A novel I read last year, Skellig by David Almond, has more chapters than it has thousands of words - fine if he prefers it that way, but it came over as a bit too staccato for me. All things being equal (such as assuming I could write as well as Almond) I'd probably have written that novel without chapters.

This has probably not been the most helpful post I've ever made to AW, but chapters/no chapters is one of those mostly-subconscious decisions you make when setting out on a novel, just like third person/first person, past tense/present tense and so on. If it feels right, go for it.

Stunted · Mar 13, 2009

tomothecat said:
Oh! Another thing. Have you considered, rather than chapters, naming the sections? If they're short sections, and say four or five of them are related, you could group them up that way. I've seen books that do that.

That sounds cool, actually, but I don't think it would work for my manuscript.

Stunted · Mar 13, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
Sounds reasonable and carefully thought out. As you progress through beta readers and submisisons and eventually to editors, let us know how each person reacts.

God. At least someone's optimistic. No, but will do. Thanks for your encouragement.

And, everyone, thank you for all your help.

Neversage · Mar 13, 2009

Interview With the Vampire had no chapters, albeit "parts," which I think actually added to the overall experience. It gave me the sense of the passage of time becoming irrelevant, because I didn't get those normal milestones.

Cyia · Mar 13, 2009

FWIW -- when I first started subbing my manuscript it didn't have chapter breaks. (I've never liked them... yes, I'm odd) However, after reading some submission guidelines and others' experiences with partial requests, I went back and added them. Most agents seem to have the option of something like "5 chapters or the first 50 pages" if they want to see a partial, but I got the impression they preferred the chapter versions. It looks less like a ramble and more like a novel.

Viking Horse · Mar 13, 2009

Neversage said:
Interview With the Vampire had no chapters, albeit "parts," which I think actually added to the overall experience. It gave me the sense of the passage of time becoming irrelevant, because I didn't get those normal milestones.

On the other hand, that annoyed me to no end, but I'm also one of those people who reads (usually before I go to sleep) until the chapter break. It seemed like I was getting up right after I closed the book and rolled over. Needless to say, it's been sitting by my bed, untouched for a couple of months now. :tongue

Sirion · Mar 13, 2009

Chapters generally make for a better novel, but they aren't strictly "needed."

RJK · Mar 13, 2009

Chapters are artificial breaks in novels, originally put there when novels were serialized in newspapers and magazines. They have become "The way we do things". Anyone challenging "The way we do things" is in for an uphill battle. Sometimes the grade of the hill is mild. Sometimes it isn't.
Since you're inclined to do so, I would submit the MS as is, without chapters. If I were you, I'd at least be prepared to break it into chapters or parts.

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