Prologues

Are you sure that it HAS to be before chapter 1?

I'm not entirely sure there is anything that needs to come before chapter 1.

Is there a problem with simply calling a prologue "chapter 1"?

I have a similar situation in my wip

Mela said:

in case anyone's wondering, the original question on the other thread was whether prologues were necessary, as they tend not to get read. My thought was that by giving them a title, instead of "prologue," they'd have a better chance of being read.

Also, I think prologues tend to give a lot of history - so they're used as sort of an info dump. Mine reads as a regular chapter, even though it comes prior to part one.

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This is why I think you can probably move it to chapter 2 or beyond and work it in as backstory.

Readers are ALWAYS confused in chapter 1.

My prologue covers what happens about a year before the rest of the story begins. It's told as present tense, "showing" not telling, kind of thing. It explains the reasons why this person is easy prey for this other person and why this other person carries such rage and jealousy and is so hell bent to destroy the first person.

Now that I've confused you, does that sound prologish or more first chapter?

Mela said:

for me, the prologue isn't really chapter one - what it's doing is setting up events for the first part of the book. In it, I don't give history, I give a conversation that throws in a little bit of a past occurrence - doing this I thought was easier than dumping it all into chapter one.

I don't know - maybe my thinking is strange??

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You're not strange. What you have to ask yourself is, does the reader need this information? Is there a better place to present it?

For what it's worth, I've known an author whose Chapter 1 was changed to Prologue by their publisher, which is the opposite of what many people will advise you to do.

Do what works for your story. As long as it works, no other justification is necessary.

i'm currently hating my prologue... im gonna run with it till its done so I can have it by my side to think about how to handle as I write the rest of the book though

LaurieD said:

Is there a problem with simply calling a prologue "chapter 1"?

I have a similar situation in my wip

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No. Call it Chapter 1 if you want. Doesn't matter.

What matters is your first chapter (whether it's a "prologue" or the start of the main story) has to be a good read. It can't be bogged down by info dump and plot wandering. It can't be a snooze. If you call it chapter 1, then all the stuff that goes with chapter 1 still applies: hook, plot movement, conflict, etc.

And don't think just because you turn prologue into Chapter 1 that you can do a massive info dump and back story.

Mela said:

That's the problem Birol - the reader needs this information.

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Do the reader REALLY need to know? Or you just can't find another way to reveal that information when they need to know?

Not having read your prologue, I have no idea. You're the best judge of this, of course, but a lot of times I see writers who think the information and backstory MUST be presented before they read on, and 9 out of 10 times it's really not the case -- that the readers don't need all that information at that point.

Sometimes it's good to sit back and look at the thing objectively and see if that information is truly needed, or not.

For example, I cut out 15,000 words from my novel. Information and plot and relationship-building that I thought the readers needed to know. But it was the wrong start of the story. Even my betas enjoyed it. But I ended up cutting it all, because... guess what, the readers don't really need to know at that point. And what they absolutely need to know, I found a way to sprinkle into the main story.

Just my opinion, that seems like an awful lot of backstory the reader is required to know.

Prozyan said:

Just my opinion, that seems like an awful lot of backstory the reader is required to know.

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By far one of the common traps writers get into.... dumping a lot of stuff the readers "need to know" before the actual story starts.

maestrowork said:

No. Call it Chapter 1 if you want. Doesn't matter.

What matters is your first chapter (whether it's a "prologue" or the start of the main story) has to be a good read. It can't be bogged down by info dump and plot wandering. It can't be a snooze. If you call it chapter 1, then all the stuff that goes with chapter 1 still applies: hook, plot movement, conflict, etc.

And don't think just because you turn prologue into Chapter 1 that you can do a massive info dump and back story.

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Gotcha - kind of what I was thinking. Thanks

James81 said:

Are you sure that it HAS to be before chapter 1?

I'm not entirely sure there is anything that needs to come before chapter 1.

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I had something like that and just called it Chapter 1. It works.

I have a similar problem in that I need to have a short prologue, even though everyone seems to hate them for some reason. I noticed some said (in another thread) that if you have to have a prologue it must set up chapter 1. I then noticed that one of the best fantasy books around, Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin, has a prologue that does not do that at all. It sets up an important foreshadowing of things to come much later. It also doesn't work to call his prologue chapter 1, because his pattern of work for the book is to use a major character's name as the chapter title, and the prologue doesn't fit into that pattern.

I have the exact same issue. The character introduced in the prologue is critical, even an instigator of certain important events, yet he won't be actively seen in the book until around chapter 40. If he only just pops into the book at that point, I think that is much worse than the short introduction to him in the prologue. I understand everyone hates prologues, but I'll go with Mr. Martin's take on it for my novel.

As someone who used to think prologues were necessary for her own stories and no longer does, maybe I can put another perspective on this.

It's easy to say that the reader needs to know something right off the bat to understand something else. But the reader knows nothing about your story when you start, no matter where you start. The BEST place to start is after the beginning. Makes about as much sense as a mud pie in the face, I know.

But take another look. If you're needing a prologue to tell (or as you think, show, which really is telling in a different form) something, then you're probably telling in other places where you should be showing it. Give the reader what they need to know when they need to know it. Part of the fun of reading is the voyage of discovery. Every story has a bit of mystery to it. Don't take that away, because that suspense of wanting to know more is what makes the reader keep going.

If a reader must understand something that's long, try a different technique. Try summarizing it as you would in a query letter--about 1-4 sentences. And place that where the reader needs to know to understand, no more. And if you write it right, you can get it down to a few words that helps the reader understand while leaving them going "I want to know more!" and keeps them turning pages.

That's what I've discovered about prologues. I no longer use them. I now see them as a tool of a lazy or inexperienced writer, not that I'm saying anyone here is. But as you mature as a writer and equip yourself with more and better refined tools, you'll see that you can do a lot more without a prologue.

Melanie Nilles said:

That's what I've discovered about prologues. I no longer use them. I now see them as a tool of a lazy or inexperienced writer

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What about prologues that "show"? (I. e., not the horrid infodump expository prologues, but ones that show events that happen prior to the story yet directly relate to the plot.)

I hate how "showing" prologues (which read the same as a normal chapter) have been ruined by the "telling" prologues so many beginning writers use, so that every prologue is judged the same.

ETA: Ah, I just noticed you include "showing" as a form of "telling," but still, I think it can be an unfair judgement. But it's your judgement and your right to have it. My apologies.

knight_tour said:

I have a similar problem in that I need to have a short prologue, even though everyone seems to hate them for some reason. I noticed some said (in another thread) that if you have to have a prologue it must set up chapter 1. I then noticed that one of the best fantasy books around, Game of Thrones by George R. R. Martin, has a prologue that does not do that at all. It sets up an important foreshadowing of things to come much later. It also doesn't work to call his prologue chapter 1, because his pattern of work for the book is to use a major character's name as the chapter title, and the prologue doesn't fit into that pattern.

I have the exact same issue. The character introduced in the prologue is critical, even an instigator of certain important events, yet he won't be actively seen in the book until around chapter 40. If he only just pops into the book at that point, I think that is much worse than the short introduction to him in the prologue. I understand everyone hates prologues, but I'll go with Mr. Martin's take on it for my novel.

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Its not Mr. Martin's "take" on prologues, it how prologues work. Most of the confusion on the need or lack of need for a prologue comes from people not understanding what a prologue is and how it fits into the structure of a novel. In short, most prologues derive from an author feeling the reader "must know" some element of backstory or infodump. Other prologues derive from the author's belief that worldbuilding must occur prior to the story beginning. Both beliefs are in error.

If one understands the purpose of a prologue and how it fits into novel structure, then one never has to worry about the necessity or placement of a prologue. Here are four (very basic) guidelines on what a prologue must accomplish (We'll apply these to Martin's "take" on prologues so you can see why it works in his case):

1. The prologue should always be an integral part of the novel, written in the same spirit and style. Otherwise it's a personal preface rather than an opening chapter. The prologue, aside from slight POV change, is very much in keeping with the style and spirit of the entire series.

2. The prologue should read like a short story in every aspect, except for its ending. Rather than resolving all conflict, the end should leave the reader intrigued. Any conflict created in the prologue, however, must be resolved somewhere along the plot. Check 2. Martin could publish his entire prologue as a self-encapsulated short story, aside from the open-ended conclusion.

3. The prologue should start with a strong and intriguing hook as if it were the only beginning of the novel. This does not exempt Chapter One from beginning with an equally strong and intriguing hook. Check on both accounts.

4. The prologue must stand out from the body of the novel in at least one fashion: the time of the events (which should be stated both in the prologue and in the first chapter), the POV character, and so on. The reader should feel a distinct switch in his mind when he begins reading Chapter One. And just as important, he should never experience the same switch again within the novel. For example, if the difference between the prologue and Chapter One is an interval of five years, you may not fast-forward time again within the novel. Again, check. Aside from the previously mentioned change in POV, Martin uses what amounts to throw away characters in the prologue scene. One survives, but is executed in Chapter 1. But, the prologue does introduce the series primary antagonists. Why do they need a prologue? Because A Song of Ice and Fire is filled with antagonists and plot lines, and it is important to ground the reader onto the primary one. They are the big baddie always looming over the horizon no matter what else happens in the course of the story.

It is quite possible that your prologue is needed for your story. Only you, the author, can make that decision. But when making that decision, it is important that you understand prologues, what they accomplish, and what they are used for.

You'll notice in none of those four points do the words backstory, plot introduction, worldbuild, or setup to avoid reader confusion appear.

Prozyan said:

Its not Mr. Martin's "take" on prologues, it how prologues work. Most of the confusion on the need or lack of need for a prologue comes from people not understanding what a prologue is and how it fits into the structure of a novel. In short, most prologues derive from an author feeling the reader "must know" some element of backstory or infodump. Other prologues derive from the author's belief that worldbuilding must occur prior to the story beginning. Both beliefs are in error.

If one understands the purpose of a prologue and how it fits into novel structure, then one never has to worry about the necessity or placement of a prologue. Here are four (very basic) guidelines on what a prologue must accomplish (We'll apply these to Martin's "take" on prologues so you can see why it works in his case):

1. The prologue should always be an integral part of the novel, written in the same spirit and style. Otherwise it's a personal preface rather than an opening chapter. The prologue, aside from slight POV change, is very much in keeping with the style and spirit of the entire series.

2. The prologue should read like a short story in every aspect, except for its ending. Rather than resolving all conflict, the end should leave the reader intrigued. Any conflict created in the prologue, however, must be resolved somewhere along the plot. Check 2. Martin could publish his entire prologue as a self-encapsulated short story, aside from the open-ended conclusion.

3. The prologue should start with a strong and intriguing hook as if it were the only beginning of the novel. This does not exempt Chapter One from beginning with an equally strong and intriguing hook. Check on both accounts.

4. The prologue must stand out from the body of the novel in at least one fashion: the time of the events (which should be stated both in the prologue and in the first chapter), the POV character, and so on. The reader should feel a distinct switch in his mind when he begins reading Chapter One. And just as important, he should never experience the same switch again within the novel. For example, if the difference between the prologue and Chapter One is an interval of five years, you may not fast-forward time again within the novel. Again, check. Aside from the previously mentioned change in POV, Martin uses what amounts to throw away characters in the prologue scene. One survives, but is executed in Chapter 1. But, the prologue does introduce the series primary antagonists. Why do they need a prologue? Because A Song of Ice and Fire is filled with antagonists and plot lines, and it is important to ground the reader onto the primary one. They are the big baddie always looming over the horizon no matter what else happens in the course of the story.

It is quite possible that your prologue is needed for your story. Only you, the author, can make that decision. But when making that decision, it is important that you understand prologues, what they accomplish, and what they are used for.

You'll notice in none of those four points do the words backstory, plot introduction, worldbuild, or setup to avoid reader confusion appear.

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Yes, I agree with you, and I think my prologue fits, though perhaps a bit more along the lines of what Mela says. My prologue reads just like any other chapter, though shorter, and it stands out only in the fact that the character in the prologue is never one of the main characters, around whom the rest of the chapters revolve.

I originally had a prologue in my book but then realized that it wasn't needed. It was an interesting little bit of backstory, but after thinking about it, I decided it was important enough to keep.

That's not saying it couldn't work; I've read plenty of books (especially historical ones) that have them and work well. It just didn't work well with mine.

Anyway, the best advice I have is to submit it to SYW to see what the consensus is.