Should I take a writing class?

[Azure Skye]

I noticed my local community college is offering a creative writing class online. I've been reading many many books over the past few years about writing but wonder if I should take the class. The price wouldn't be too much so that's not a big deal. Do you think it would be worth it? It would be nice for me to have some kind of feedback from other people.

[Fillanzea]

In all likelihood, you can probably find an online critique group for cheaper.

It depends on your writing proficiency, too; if you're at a different level than most of the people taking the class, then you might have trouble getting useful critiques.

I haven't found writing classes to be of much use to me, but your mileage may vary.

[BlueTexas]

It can't hurt, and you'll meet like-minded people.

[maestrowork]

I found my writing class extremely helpful. On the other hand, nothing that was taught couldn't have been learned through books, etc. I still preferred the lectures, hands-on experience, and the group interraction.

But not all programs are created equal. If you have a bad class with a bad teacher, it can be a bad experience.

Also, joining a crit group is not the same as taking a legit class taught by someone with publishing experience. You don't know the qualification of the people in a crit group -- many of them might be aspiring writers themselves.

[BlueTexas]

Ray's right. I took a creative writing class once where the teacher hated every single thing I wrote. Basically, he told me to give up and not torture the editors of the world with my prose.

Hmmmmph!

[maestrowork]

Ray's right. I took a creative writing class once where the teacher hated every single thing I wrote. Basically, he told me to give up and not torture the editors of the world with my prose.

Hmmmmph!

And you proved him wrong, Kira!!!

[azbikergirl]

My advice (speaking from experience) is to find out the credentials of the instructor first -- and give them serious consideration. I'm enjoying the online class I'm taking now (through Writer's Digest), because I got a very good instructor with five novels published (recently -- not 20+ years ago!). Not every class I've taken has been as good. One in particular had as the instructor someone with two novels published -- the most recent of which by PublishAmerica. That was a red flag, but I ignored it, and I was sorry.

[KTC]

If it were me, which it isn't, I wouldn't want my first course to be on-line. I've taken courses and found most of them to be fabulous. When I have a great teacher I get lots out of the course. Like Ray said, a bad teacher can really ruin a good thing. Are there any in class courses available?

[Lilybiz]

I think azbikergirl's advice is good--check out the teacher's credentials. Then, if the other students aren't up to your level, at least the teacher will be able to give you useful critiques.

Sometimes this sort of thing depends on the type of person you are. I happen to take well to group critique. I started my writer's group with like-minded souls I found in unlikely places--one of them from a writing class, one was a neighbor, one a friend who was working in another writing class. If you're not the type who finds working in groups to be helpful, a class may not be good for you.

If you find it hard to get any writing done, a weekly deadline such as ohmygodIhaveclasstomorrownight might be very useful.

[Azure Skye]

If it were me, which it isn't, I wouldn't want my first course to be on-line. I've taken courses and found most of them to be fabulous. When I have a great teacher I get lots out of the course. Like Ray said, a bad teacher can really ruin a good thing. Are there any in class courses available?

There is an in class course available but it's being offered at a branch that is rather far away from me. I'm very much a traditionalist where learning is concerened. I've had experience with both in class and on line classes and prefer in class courses. There are some courses however that seem suited for on line. Something like writing though seems like it should be taught the traditional way. I still have a good bit of time to think about it.

[Tish Davidson]

I've taken some writing classes including one at community college. If the price is reasonable and the teacher has decent credentials, I'd say go for it. First, it will force you to write on a deadline. Second, it will force you to branch out and try techniques you might not feel comfortable with. Getting out of your comfort zone can help you grow. (example: one assignment was to write a story entirely or almost entirely in dialogue. This is something I would never have tried on my own, but I learned a lot from doing it.) Third, you'll meet other people interested in writing in your community, and they may have had experiences about submitting, etc. that you can learn from. But if you don't have the time to put into the assignments, don't bother with the class, because what you get out of it will have a lot to do with what you put into it.

[KTC]

Have you considered contacting the college and asking for a one on one with the tutor? Maybe you will get a feel for them and sense that they have something to teach you that can be translated online. Sometimes you can tell a lot from one meeting. I was fortunate enough to find a mentor through a writing class. Maybe if you can meet or even talk on the phone with the instructor it might help you make your decision.

[Marcusthefish]

I would find out the instructor's feelings towards commercial writing before signing up. I took several courses in college that were biased against writing that didn't aspire to be literary, and was disappointed more often than not.

MTF

[Azure Skye]

This is the course description: A course in which the students write poetry, short fiction, and plays for pleasure and publication. Mansucripts are revised after student and instructor criticism.

[maestrowork]

"After student and instructor criticism"?

It seems like the class lacks focus. "Poetry, short fiction, plays" and "for pleasure or publication"? I'd suggest you take a class that focuses on "novel writing" or "short stories," whatever you're interested in. Definitely check out the instructor's credentials.

[KTC]

I agree with Maestro. One more thing...after student and instructor criticism? Does that mean that you will be critiqued by fellow students? And, if so, are they qualified to critique? I'd be questioning it for that reason alone.

[Marcusthefish]

I agree with Maestro. One more thing...after student and instructor criticism? Does that mean that you will be critiqued by fellow students? And, if so, are they qualified to critique? I'd be questioning it for that reason alone.

That doesn't bother me. Peer criticism is standard for a workshop-type class. The worst writing class I took in college was the one where only the prof. gave feedback (none of it constructive).

MTF

[DixieChic]

I majored in creative writing in college, and obviously those classes didn't make a published novelist out of me :-) However, I did learn quite a bit about craft, and because of the instructor-imposed deadlines, I completed quite a few short stories, a couple of which were published.

That being said, I have to agree with everyone who has said that the instructor makes the class. There tends to be a strong bias towards what certain professors consider "literary" fiction. The first creative writing class I attended at college, I was told, "There will be NO stories about talking animals written in this class and NO science fiction!"

Of course, the first story I wrote about about an astronaut cat named Talkie.

[maestrowork]

Actually I loved it when the classmates gave each other crits.

[Lilybiz]

Peer critique can be the most useful. It's like when Uncle Jim talks about beta readers (if you haven't checked into the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread, I recommend it). Some of the best readers are the least "qualified." They can give you an honest, even inexperienced reaction. They may not be able to tell you why a particular passage isn't working, but they can tell you it's not ringing true for them because their gut just knows. It's an unpretentious, honest response.

A good teacher can guide students to critique constructively, so it's critique and not criticism.

[Joni Holderman]

Actually I loved it when the classmates gave each other crits.
What he said. I would take that one step further and say that even with the finest instructors, I learned as much from student critiques. I often found new insights for my own writing listening to student A critique student B's work.

I think listening to, and discussing, student crits is one of the best reasons for a live class, rather than online.

Yes, other students are qualified to critique your work, especially if you've seen their writing and respect it. (If you've seen their work and you write ten times better than anyone else in the class, drop the class. You're in the wrong place.) It's also a great place to find trusted beta readers.

Occasionally even the best instructor just won't "get" a particular story. That's when it's especially helpful to have other opinions.

[Jamesaritchie]

I think beta readers can be good things, but at the same time, I think being critiqued by other students is dangerous and potenbtially harmful. Unless you have a professor who knows what he's doing, and who will also critique the story independently, I'd avoid any writing class that depends on other students to critique.

It's true enough that some are helped by having other students critique them, but from my experience with college writing courses, the students most harmed are very often those who sincerely believed they were the most helped.

[Lilybiz]

It's true enough that some are helped by having other students critique them, but from my experience with college writing courses, the students most harmed are very often those who sincerely believed they were the most helped.

This fascinates me, and I sense you are a more experienced sage than I am, so I believe you. Would you mind elaborating a bit? Is a particular kind of student susceptible? Is it a common or uncommon occurrence? Do you perhaps have an example? (Being selfish, I'm of course wondering if this happened to me, since I thought I was helped in those classes by students and teachers alike.)

[BenMears]

Here's my feeling, after having taking several classes, online and off, from Adult Ed to Univerisity PhD program, semester-long and solid week conference; I even taught a couple of them. I haven't gotten much of value from student critiques, and have been distracted by having to give them to fellow students. Even with instructors, it is rare to get one who will not (with best intentions) mostly tell you how she would have written the story, which may not work for you. The ideal would be to learn from a successful writer who has a style and chooses subject matter close to your own, and who can be articulate and supportive. So far, I have not come close to this ideal--if you find it, let me know!

In the meantime, I just wrestled with this question again and came up with this: I bought a piece of software called NewNovelist that provides some instruction, but mainly a way to organize a novel. And I started a thread in this forum where I will report on how my writing is going. At this point, just starting out on a book, the best critique for me is whatever will keep the butt in the chair and get the writing done. When I have finished it and made it the best that I can, then I will be interested in trying to find a good critical reading. Preferably from an editor, of course.

[Marcusthefish]

It's true enough that some are helped by having other students critique them, but from my experience with college writing courses, the students most harmed are very often those who sincerely believed they were the most helped.

More please--this is getting interesting. Does it follow that those who believed we got nothing were the most helped?

MTF

[BlueTexas]

More please--this is getting interesting. Does it follow that those who believed we got nothing were the most helped?

MTF

ROFL--How I wish that were true. I could have used some help, but all I got was shot down, lol!!

[Azure Skye]

This thread is taking an interesting turn.:)

[Lilybiz]

I think I might have just been lucky. I had a great class in college (way too long ago)--with a wonderful teacher who knew how to guide students to "what I heard was this" rather than "I didn't like this"-type of critiques.

On the other hand, I once quit a writing group peopled with know-nothing blow-hards who kept questioning my research (which I had done, even though they hadn't) and weren't good enough writers to critique want ads. You never know.

[CJWilkes]

I am taking a writing class from my favorite author... Anita Stansfield. I started last week, and I must say that you can always learn more. I have been growing by leaps and bounds by listening to other authors and taking classes, so by all means... Take the class. If anything you will learn that you don't want to write one way or you do. It would not hurt you in the least bit.

Best wishes with the class should you decide to take it. :)

[college boy]

I am about to leave for my writing class at Gotham Writers Workshop to workshop chapters 9-12 of my novel The Russian Code. My question is whether I should start hating my classmates now or wait until they start critiquing my prose.

[Susan Littlefield]

I noticed my local community college is offering a creative writing class online. I've been reading many many books over the past few years about writing but wonder if I should take the class. The price wouldn't be too much so that's not a big deal. Do you think it would be worth it? It would be nice for me to have some kind of feedback from other people.

Azure,

Several years ago I took a creative writing workshop through our local college for three semesters (1.5 years). I found it extremely helpful in learning the craft of putting scenes together, writing realistic characters, building conflict, and everything else that writers need to know in order to succeed. It was cheap, too. The caveat was that the teacher was/is a published writer. She knew what she was talking about. She is my friend to this day.

Whether or not you want to take a writing class depends upon your needs and what you hope to gain from it. If you know how to write a good story or have been published, you might not gain much from the class. However, if you feel that you need some direction in building a good story, it might benefit you. I would suggest you make sure your instructor has something to show for her experience, such as short story and/or novel publications. If she lack thereof, that does not mean she's not a good instructor, it just means she may not be able to teach what it takes to write stories good enough to be published.

Whatever you decide- good luck!

[Susan Littlefield]

"After student and instructor criticism"?

It seems like the class lacks focus. "Poetry, short fiction, plays" and "for pleasure or publication"? I'd suggest you take a class that focuses on "novel writing" or "short stories," whatever you're interested in. Definitely check out the instructor's credentials.

In the creative writing class I took years ago, we were allowed to write whatever we wanted, whether it was poetry, screen plays, short stories, or chapters to novels. It was really fun having the variety.

The course also involved student and teacher critique. It was interesting.

[willietheshakes]

It can't hurt

Sure it can.

[Chris P]

Yay! A useful zombie thread come back to life after five years!

I have considered taking a class, as the more diverse my skills and the more I understand them the better writer I will be. I'm not sure if I will, but I haven't ruled it out.

[quicklime]

I noticed my local community college is offering a creative writing class online. I've been reading many many books over the past few years about writing but wonder if I should take the class. The price wouldn't be too much so that's not a big deal. Do you think it would be worth it? It would be nice for me to have some kind of feedback from other people.


never had one writing class, so I could not say, but I wouldn't be inclined to believe you will get any more that way than doing a lot of writing on your own and getting some critique someplace like here....

[readitnweep]

Agree with Maestro's points. Some can be great - depending on the instructor. And being a published author does not make someone a good instructor. I took several writing courses in college and only one, a poetry class, was helpful. The others were not. Choose with care when your money is involved.

[Fame<Infamy]

I took a class that covered all kinds of writing, plays, poetry and short stories then it talked abut novels, I found it lacking in what I wanted. Half of the class was spent on poems and I hate writing poems. I feel like its a waste when I know what I want to do.

Most people in the class had little to no experience with the writing of anything other than like, stuff for class. It was jarring for them when I mentioned sex or cursed when we had to read out loud, but they all enjoyed it. I felt like I made some cool friends, the professor was nice and I did learn a little, but I wish it had been more narrative and novel centric.

[jaksen]

The problems arise when you're a better writer than the person teaching the class.

This would probably happen to quite a few of you.

[dawinsor]

I took a writing "class" at a local art center last year. It was mostly workshop so we critted one another's work. I'm not sure I learned anything about writing, but I enjoyed it much more than I expected to. I met other local writers and it was all very relaxed. My ego was stroked, which was nice. We did ten minutes of free writing at the start of class and I wrote for myself in my character's voice, so that was also valuable.

I'd say it depends on what you want and how the class is run.

[dangerousbill]

I noticed my local community college is offering a creative writing class online. I've been reading many many books over the past few years about writing but wonder if I should take the class.

If you want to take an onliine course, you're not restricted to your local CC. There are inexpensive and free writing courses all over the world.

You really need to find a class or group to meet people who write in-person. Online is nice, but it doesn't work as well as in-person. Moreover, as a former university professor who's taught both in class and online, I know that teaching effectively on an internet simulation of a classroom is much harder and fatiguing than a live class. So you're not likely to get the best out of your instructor.

A second point: you say you've read lots of books on writing. But do you actually write? I'd guess that a class will do you far more good if you have a year of writing, or maybe 100,000 words of writing under your belt first. It doesn't have to be good writing. It just has to get you to the point where you can recognize strengths and weaknesses in your own work when you see them in a disciplined class setting.

DB

[Fulk]

I'm taking a writing class right now at my university. Our instructor is not very well versed in genre fiction (particularly fantasy/sci-fi, which is surprisingly what close to 80% of the class is interested in writing), but I've still found it useful.

We are in the process of critting eachother's work, and there's very little instruction on the actual methods of writing. I like it that way. We are not discussing certain methods as if they are the sole approach, but rather reading stories and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.

On a personal level it has been successful because the motivation of a grade, and the awareness that my work will be viewed by others, has pressed me to write more frequently. I've written stories from prompts that I never would have expected out of me only months ago. While initially I would stare at an exercise and say "How can I possibly write this?" I now find myself cranking out stories with much less effort.

I am confident this push to keep writing will outlast my class, and that alone has made my choice worth it.

[Fame<Infamy]

When I had the class, our prompts were pretty simple--historic story, write a story about foil characters, write a story where the weather is the opposite of the emotions in the scene--etc. Some of them were kind of interesting.

[ishtar'sgate]

Too bad they're not offering it as a night class. I found classes attended in person to be much more profitable than online courses. Body language, voice inflection, simultaneous responses to your material make a big difference to the overall experience. The immediacy of a live class is great. You don't have a lot of time to think about what to say or what to write so it helps break the selfcensorship barrier fairly quickly. It's also kind of exciting and bolstering to be physically with other people who love to write and understand the struggle to get something on the page - to share a smile, a story etc.

That said, if all that's offered is an online course, like a live course, it's only as good as the instructor. Are they writers themselves? Have anything published? Check their qualifications before you decide. Poor instructors can actually give you bad advice and be detrimental so it pays to check them out.

[Fame<Infamy]

My class was in person, but all writing was done overnight, between classes.

[maestrowork]

The way I look at it, you can learn how to build skyscrapers via books and studying by yourself. But school is fun, because it's interactive learning. PEOPLE can inspire others in such an environment -- it's not only for information exchange. Or else, all the universities will be closed by now. Who needs to pay $100,000 in tuition if we could get our education via books alone?

[jaksen]

I learned to write from reading books. I assumed that's where most of us learned.

[maestrowork]

I learned to write from reading books. I assumed that's where most of us learned.

I learned to read from reading books. I learned to write from my creative writing teachers.

I mean, if you only learn writing from reading, do you actually learn the craft of, say, point of view, effective dialogue, literary structures and devices, plotting, character development, etc.? Would you be able to do effective critical analysis knowing what you're looking at? If so, you're way smarter than I was.

[jaksen]

If so, you're way smarter than I was.

Thanks!

I'm sure you've learned a lot from the writing classes you've taken. I am not saying they don't benefit a good many writers. But me personally, never taken one, other than Freshmen Comp. 1, in which the professor accused me of plagiarizing authors I'd never read.

I hope he's reading this now, btw. :D

[DancingMaenid]

It seems like the class lacks focus. "Poetry, short fiction, plays" and "for pleasure or publication"? I'd suggest you take a class that focuses on "novel writing" or "short stories," whatever you're interested in. Definitely check out the instructor's credentials.

I took a class with a similar, broad description at my college. No, it wasn't very focused, in that we were allowed to write pretty much anything we wanted. For the type of class it was (a general introductory class), I thought that worked well. I really liked seeing some of the different types of writing that other people brought. At the time, it was pretty good for what I wanted. I didn't really need a specific course. If I had, however, then yeah, a more specific class or workshop probably would have been better.

But I also didn't think the class was quite as broad as the description suggested. For instance, we never did anything with plays, though I imagine the teacher would have allowed someone to write a play if they wanted. And we had an assigned book on writing nonfiction that the teacher never even assigned any reading from or expected us to have. I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but I got the impression that with my class, the teacher had some discretion over what to focus on (which in our case was poetry and very short fiction, though most assignments could have been tailored to just about anything).

I considered taking another class online with a different teacher, just to get the experience and a second viewpoint, but for me, the classroom experience was a big part of the class. Though, I've taken online classes before and I'd be willing to bet that an online class would still have opportunities for group discussions and critiques online.

[ishtar'sgate]

I learned to write from reading books. I assumed that's where most of us learned.

I credit most of what I've learned (if I've learned anything:)) from reading books but early on I adored creative writing classes because I got to meet and pick the brains of published writers. I was fascinated by them. They could have been rock stars.

One of the things I learned from the classes I took was that there are no absolutes in creative writing. Our brains seem to be wired quite uniquely so that what taps my creativity isn't necessarily what taps yours. I need to peek behind the scenes a bit and have a look at structure. You obviously don't to and it works very well for you.

By the way, I'm very jealous that you write for Alfred Hitchcock and Ellery Queen magazines. I love to read mysteries but I suck at writing them.

[Sevvy]

But me personally, never taken one, other than Freshmen Comp. 1

If your freshmen comp was anything like mine (and I assume the majority of freshmen comp classes across the country), then it doesn't count. Mine was awful, and we spent an entire class on what a thesis statement was.

For instance, we never did anything with plays

From my experience, play writing is usually its own course, separated from the general creative writing classes. Or at least, I've never read a description for an "intro to creative writing" course that included play writing, but I'm sure they're out there.

Anyway, I'm currently in a low-residency MFA program, and I took creative writing courses in my undergrad. I've heard of people who really enjoyed their experience, and others who did not. I think it depends both on what kind of writer you are, how you learn, and whether you are in a class that is supportive but still critical and helpful. I was lucky and got many great teachers who didn't mind that I wrote sci-fi and fantasy instead of the usual literary fiction. So research the class before you take it, see if you can find students who took it, and then decide if it sounds like fun.

[DancingMaenid]

From my experience, play writing is usually its own course, separated from the general creative writing classes. Or at least, I've never read a description for an "intro to creative writing" course that included play writing, but I'm sure they're out there.

Mine did mention play writing, as does the one for the class in question here, apparently. That's why I brought it up. Just because it mentioned plays didn't mean we actually did anything with plays. :P I think the school just wanted to cover all their bases, maybe.

[jaksen]

I credit most of what I've learned (if I've learned anything:)) from reading books but early on I adored creative writing classes because I got to meet and pick the brains of published writers. I was fascinated by them. They could have been rock stars.

One of the things I learned from the classes I took was that there are no absolutes in creative writing. Our brains seem to be wired quite uniquely so that what taps my creativity isn't necessarily what taps yours. I need to peek behind the scenes a bit and have a look at structure. You obviously don't to and it works very well for you.

By the way, I'm very jealous that you write for Alfred Hitchcock and Ellery Queen magazines. I love to read mysteries but I suck at writing them.

Thanks for the compliments. I went into writing blind, and just wrote what I thought was a good story and sent it off to only one publication. As I've said before, first one rejected, second one accepted.

I am not saying I wouldn't benefit from a class even now at this stage in my (writing?) career. An old dog can learn new tricks. My daughter was an English major, and I've had friends who've taken writing classes. What bothers me about some of these classes is that you will find instructors who are not published, except in scholarly or literary journals - in which they are writing about creative writing.

Methinks an expert in writing should have a published novel or two, or a few short stories or something, under their belt.

[Sevvy]

Mine did mention play writing, as does the one for the class in question here, apparently. That's why I brought it up. Just because it mentioned plays didn't mean we actually did anything with plays. :P I think the school just wanted to cover all their bases, maybe.

Huh, I've never seen that before. That's sad that you didn't get to do play writing, then.

[Fulk]

Huh, I've never seen that before. That's sad that you didn't get to do play writing, then.

I can attest to DancingMaenid's experience as well. The class I am taking right now mentioned in its course description that we would write a one-act play. However, no such thing is mentioned in my professor's syllabus, she has not referenced it, and we've focused solely on writing short stories and exercises--with the exception of our workshop portion, which is open to sections or pieces (typically the first chapter) of a longer work.