Killing off everyone in a scene

vrabinec · Feb 26, 2009

Does it annoy anyone to be introduced by name to 4 or 5 characters in a 1500 word scene in which they all die? It's chapter 1, and the MC leaves the scene before the calamity. I'm wondering if naming the characters gets the reader too invested. Can't think of any novels I've read that do that. Runaway Jury kinda did, but Grisham only named two in that one, if I recall. And, in my case, the characters that die are insignificant, it's the manner of their death that I need to show.

MsGneiss · Feb 26, 2009

I think it's Ok to name them, but don't go much into building up their characters. An alternative to naming them would be to identify them through a physical feature - instead of Jason Smith, you can have "the tall man with a thin black mustache."

dwellerofthedeep · Feb 26, 2009

sleepsheep has a good idea with the physical descriptors. I think it would also be important not to drag it out too much, but still have it last long enough to make an impact. Looks challenging.

kaitlin008 · Feb 26, 2009

It wouldn't annoy me unless I felt like I was supposed to become attached to them. So I agree with the advice - don't do too much character building. Names alone don't make me get attached to a character, but if you tell me very much about them, I'm going to assume that at least some of them will be hanging around for a while.

Wiskel · Feb 26, 2009

Mu favourite author, George RR Martin is always killing my favourite characters. He gets away with it by making sure I grow to like the ones he leaves alive.

It wouldn't annoy me
I should perhaps add a comment to say that I'm feeling fairly bloodthirsty at the moment and that most of my supporting characters will be lucky to make it out of my wip alive.

Craig

Gillhoughly · Feb 26, 2009

:editor's hat on:

Without actually reading the 1500 word scene, this is not an easy call, but you said the manner of their death is more important than the people who do the dying. That's your answer.

I'd say lose the role call, focus on the internal dialogue of your MC for the length of the scene, then get him out.

A few weeks back I picked up some mainstream thriller that spent pages and pages focusing on how a man's being tortured in prison. It was a real wallow and sickened me, but I stuck with it to see how he escaped.

No escape. Some other dude comes in, thanks him for his bravery, then kills him and leaves.

I felt cheated and pissed at the writer for dragging me through that crap, getting me to root for the character, and then snuffing him.

I'm sure that was his intended purpose, but I react badly to that sort of manipulation and put the book back. I won't be touching any more of his books again.

And yet he's got cover blurbs, big sales, and praise for his writing skills.

Me--I wanna hit him with a brick. Just name a body part.

tehuti88 · Feb 26, 2009

I'm along the same lines as many who have already replied. I wouldn't spend a great amount of time developing these characters, and since naming is a big part of character development, why let the reader know all these people's names if they're not going to stick around beyond this chapter? When you give a name, the reader often assumes it's something they'll have to remember/keep in mind throughout the entire story, so it sticks out as something that will be around for quite a while. I'd understand if one of them calls another by name--"Hey Beth, how ya doing?"--but to actually introduce them all by name, then kill them, seems a bit excessive. Like naming all the cities in a state when the story is going to take place in only one.

Physical descriptors, as mentioned, seem fine to me.

Just my opinion.

Hillgate · Feb 26, 2009

vrabinec said:
Does it annoy anyone to be introduced by name to 4 or 5 characters in a 1500 word scene in which they all die? It's chapter 1, and the MC leaves the scene before the calamity. I'm wondering if naming the characters gets the reader too invested. Can't think of any novels I've read that do that. Runaway Jury kinda did, but Grisham only named two in that one, if I recall. And, in my case, the characters that die are insignificant, it's the manner of their death that I need to show.

Don't bother naming them if they're insignificant and their names don't crop up elsewhere in the book eg 'my God! They killed Brad too???'

Dump Brad, Jolene and Dorcas. Go native.

NeuroFizz · Feb 26, 2009

These kinds of characters are sometimes called "shreddies." They only exist in a story to die (in order to make some kind of point with the reader). The reader won't (and shouldn't) care about them if that's all they are--just shreddies. Most readers will not want to invest a lot of time and energy in any character who is just put in the story to be killed off.

But ask yourself if using shreddies is the best tack for the story--they could be killed off-scene, for example. Also make sure that having a bunch of shreddies bite the big one is the best way to open the novel.

maestrowork · Feb 26, 2009

I think it's okay to name them because it's quite silly to say "man number 1 and woman number 2," don't you think, especially if the POV character knows their names. But if they're just random people (the fat one, the old one) then do what Stephen King does -- just give them a brief description.

In movie terms, they're just extras. They may have a line or two, but they're still extras -- in movie credits, most often they're called "Man #1" or "Coffeeshop Employee." They rarely have names.

seun · Feb 26, 2009

Gillhoughly said:
A few weeks back I picked up some mainstream thriller that spent pages and pages focusing on how a man's being tortured in prison. It was a real wallow and sickened me, but I stuck with it to see how he escaped.

No escape. Some other dude comes in, thanks him for his bravery, then kills him and leaves.

I felt cheated and pissed at the writer for dragging me through that crap, getting me to root for the character, and then snuffing him.

I'm sure that was his intended purpose, but I react badly to that sort of manipulation and put the book back. I won't be touching any more of his books again.

And yet he's got cover blurbs, big sales, and praise for his writing skills.

Me--I wanna hit him with a brick. Just name a body part.

Interesting. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. OK, I'd be invested in the first guy and shocked/disturbed/surprised he died after all that, but if it served the story rather than acting as a clumsy way to get a reaction, I'd be OK with it.

She_wulf · Feb 26, 2009

Suggestion:

Since your MC is in the room first, then leaves and everyone dies, have him/her do a head count as the scene opens.

Sort of like this: ("borrowing" from slasher type films) Jack Emcee scanned the human flotsam in the room. A blonde with really huge cliche's was hanging all over the sun-bum jock. In the corner, a bit apart from the rest, a waif with black hair shuddered. The two meatheads arguing in the middle did nothing to compliment the picture.

Now that we have a head count, you can off the jock. The meat-heads fight against whoever is doing the killing, but are distracted by the bimbo. Both die, and the bimbo and the waif are now banded together to fight the baddie. Of course, they both deserve gruesome manglings, right?

Just kidding, all. But using the known to illustrate.

Good luck.

Amy

Fox The Cave · Feb 26, 2009

There's a scene in an episode of LOST that's absolutely hilarious because of this subject. One main character is being attacked by a bunch of commando's in a village. This character, Sawyer, is hiding in front of a house. Just completely random people who've supposedly been with our main group of heroes the whole time throughout 4 seasons but we've just never seen them keep waltzing out of the house, make an obligatory confused comment ("Hey, whats going on out here?!") and then get mowed down by gunfire. It's hilarious because of how shameless the scene is - it's almost as if mocking the idea of 'shredders' or 'redshirts'.

James D. Macdonald · Feb 26, 2009

It does make finding the right POV ... challenging.

Cyia · Feb 26, 2009

vrabinec said:
Does it annoy anyone to be introduced by name to 4 or 5 characters in a 1500 word scene in which they all die? It's chapter 1, and the MC leaves the scene before the calamity. I'm wondering if naming the characters gets the reader too invested. Can't think of any novels I've read that do that. Runaway Jury kinda did, but Grisham only named two in that one, if I recall. And, in my case, the characters that die are insignificant, it's the manner of their death that I need to show.

LoL... go look at my original "Bleed" post in SYW. This is exactly the problem I was having. And it was a disaster. There were a dozen characters slated to die and it felt weird not to give them names since the death scene was important. (it was also the opening scene) but there were so many names, it was confusing to the people reading it.

In this case it's also the manner of death that was integral rather than the people involved.

Atlantis · Feb 26, 2009

sleepsheep said:
I think it's Ok to name them, but don't go much into building up their characters. An alternative to naming them would be to identify them through a physical feature - instead of Jason Smith, you can have "the tall man with a thin black mustache."

Name them. No matter how minor they are. Its been in my experience that giving minor background characters descriptions like "The woman with the red hat on" gets arkward and repetivie after a while because you have to keep either repeating that phrase or think of something else.

Matera the Mad · Feb 26, 2009

I created a nice old woman in chapter one and killed her in chapter two at the end of her cameo POV scene. Mean, nasty, but it gets my MC off his butt and going in the right direction. No complaints from betas, though the latest one was wide-eyed at the atrocity of the villains.

ishtar'sgate · Feb 26, 2009

vrabinec said:
Does it annoy anyone to be introduced by name to 4 or 5 characters in a 1500 word scene in which they all die? It's chapter 1, and the MC leaves the scene before the calamity. I'm wondering if naming the characters gets the reader too invested. Can't think of any novels I've read that do that. Runaway Jury kinda did, but Grisham only named two in that one, if I recall. And, in my case, the characters that die are insignificant, it's the manner of their death that I need to show.

I like to feel a tiny twinge when throwaway characters die. As others have already advised, I wouldn't invest too much time in character building. That said, I want to feel something when they die or else I couldn't care less how they die. A line or two, that's all you need. For example -
Mary leaned against the window, watched the line of black limos ahead of her and wished she'd made time to see her father. It was too late now.
Just a snippet lets you feel a little something for her.

She_wulf · Feb 26, 2009

Matera the Mad said:
I created a nice old woman in chapter one and killed her in chapter two at the end of her cameo POV scene. Mean, nasty, but it gets my MC off his butt and going in the right direction. No complaints from betas, though the latest one was wide-eyed at the atrocity of the villains.

On not naming names and not killing people off in the beginning of the book...

I broke both with the very first sentence of a WIP.

It goes:

"Then Pudgie died."

Pudgie, who was an unlikeable cad who lived in an ancient silver Airstream trailer that listed to one side because the tires were flat and the rain had sunk it up to the axel on that side, died because my real MC's landed on him.

Seriously... that's what happened.

Killing off everyone in a scene

vrabinec

Dipwad

MsGneiss

dwellerofthedeep

Electric Alien Fish Machine

kaitlin008

Seeing newness all the time

Wiskel

practical experience, FTW

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Hillgate

On location

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

seun

Horror Man

She_wulf

that's me

Fox The Cave

I get cancer. I kill Jack.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Atlantis

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

ishtar'sgate

living in the past

She_wulf

that's me