Viewpoints

yes. if you are writing 3rd subjective and the characters are present you must pick one character for POV. Don't all of a sudden switch to a subjective POV.

Yes, it is a mistake to show the thoughts and feelings of any character who is not a POV character and do not make them the POV character for one scene only because the reader will say WTF? and you will lose them. habitually doing that is called headhopping. headhopping is bad. very bad.

I tried to read a book by Jacques De Brul. He chose, as a writer, to switch to the POV of a character for one paragraph before that character got killed. After the second time he did that, within one chapter, i put the book down and will never read another book by him again.

Readers are not writers and look for different things. But the one thing they are very aware of is POV consistency. POV consistency is the glue that holds everything else together.

If you peruse the subject list of the threads in Basic WRiting Questions and in Novel writing, checking out only about the first four or so pages, you will come across about 8 different threads on POV. Long threads that discuss head hopping, 3rd limited vs 3rd objective, etc. Very informative threads. Here are some for you to check out.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132425

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132284

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132022

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131683

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131341

It seems to be a really popular subject right now.

Suse said:

If I’m writing in the 3rd person subjective with two main POV’s (never showing the thoughts of both in same scene), is it a mistake to present some scenes in the 3rd person objective?

Click to expand...

If it suits the story and you handle it well, do it.

Suse said:

In such scenes, either of the two main characters are present, sometimes as main actors in the scene, sometimes in less important roles.

Click to expand...

The idea of using objective when one of the main chars is present bothers me a bit. I'm wondering why you think those particular scenes are better shown without using the char's POV. I'd prefer to see objective only when neither of them is present. Still, if you have a good reason, if it makes sense for your story, it could work.

Suse said:

Also, is it a mistake to show the thoughts and feelings of other characters only once, then never again?

Click to expand...

This is one of my pet peeves. I'd advise against it.

Very tricky. Any way she can tell the vision? or another character can have the vision?

That's the thing, there are tricky moments when we write. Moments where we just don't know how we can get something across. That's why writing is so tough. Challenge yourself to see if you can figure it out without changing POV. Changing POV for one moment because you can't come up with a better way of getting the information across, really isn't a strong enough reason. Having read some of your stuff already, I really think you need to give yourself more credit. You can do this, and when you do, you'll work will be stronger for it.

As I said in the other thread, constantly ask yourself why you have decided to break the rules. If the answer is, "it will make the story stronger" go for it. But if the answer is, "I just don't know any other way to get this across", take up the challenge and work to find it. You really do have the talent to do so.

Suse said:

If I’m writing in the 3rd person subjective with two main POV’s (never showing the thoughts of both in same scene), is it a mistake to present some scenes in the 3rd person objective? In such scenes, either of the two main characters are present, sometimes as main actors in the scene, sometimes in less important roles.

Click to expand...

if you do it well, I don't have a problem with having some 3rd objective scenes especially if you're sticking to 3rd person. Now if you mix and match 1st person with 3rd limited with omniscient with objective, then I'd say, "pick one and stick with it already."

Also, is it a mistake to show the thoughts and feelings of other characters only once, then never again?

Click to expand...

Yes, it's lazy writing. It's breaking POV for no reason at all, except the writer doesn't know how to convey something the POV character doesn't know. WHY oh why do you need to report on the thoughts and feelings and only once, on someone who is not the POV character? It seems to me you have the "I'm the author and I want to tell everything" syndrome. You, the author, knows what that character is thinking. I, the reader, don't need to know. If the POV character doesn't know, please don't head-hop just to show what he/she doesn't know. That's undisciplined writing.

maestrowork said:

Quote:
Also, is it a mistake to show the thoughts and feelings of other characters only once, then never again?
Yes, it's lazy writing. It's breaking POV for no reason at all, except the writer doesn't know how to convey something the POV character doesn't know.

Click to expand...

It's not breaking POV if you're writing in third-person omniscient. A third-person omniscient narrator can go into any character's head at any time. If you start out with the intention of writing in third-person limited and then you find yourself going into the heads of other characters, then maybe you're "breaking" POV, but maybe, more simply, you're discovering that your story doesn't want to be written in 3d pers limited, but rather 3d pers omniscient. Obviously 3d pers omniscient, with its dips into the heads of multiple characters, is not a "bad" way to tell a story; it has been with us for millennia. Like any POV, if it's done well, it works just fine.

If you do it just to convey some expository information, I agree that that's probably lazy, and if you hopscotch into ten different characters' heads in five pages, yes, it will feel like head-hopping. But it certainly can be done well.

I did not get the impression that the OP was writing in omniscient. She has two POV characters, and the others don't get POV at all except maybe "once, and never again." To me, that doesn't sound omniscient. It sounds like 3rd limited (although she called it "3rd subjective").

Omniscient doesn't have POV characters, by the way. Everything is through the narrator's POV.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but can anyone tell me why Nevada is self banned?

*Pudge* said:

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but can anyone tell me why Nevada is self banned?

Click to expand...

Self-bans are usually requested by the member because they want to get some writing done, or otherwise attend to real life stuff. It's not a disciplinary action.

-Derek

Could the vision be in 3rd omniscient, assuming that you are using 3rd omniscient often in the novel?

If I understand what ideagirl is saying, I'm thinking that too. More use of 3rd omniscient than you imply in the OP might do it (?)

(I'm still learning the terminology for everything, and how it's best used, so keep that in mind with any brainstorming I do "with" y'all, please )

dpaterso said:

Self-bans are usually requested by the member because they want to get some writing done, or otherwise attend to real life stuff. It's not a disciplinary action.

-Derek

Click to expand...

Thanks Derek, It's a shame - I enjoy her posts.