Can anyone suggest some novels written in 3rd person limited with 3 or 4 POV characters? I started writing my novel as 3rd omniscient, but I plan to switch to limited as I continue and in the next draft. I have a fairly large cast (fantasy/adventure), but would like to focus on one main character's viewpoint, plus 2 or 3 other main characters. This is my first novel and the perspective has been my biggest problem so far. Any help is appreciated.
3rd person limited novels?
- Thread starter alyssalynne
- Start date
- Status
Off the top of my head, no, but I can recommend a really excellent 3rd-person omniscient novel that--like your book--has a fairly large cast but focuses on and gets inside the head of a smaller number of characters (I think about six, one of whom is of course the main character). It's Bel Canto by Ann Patchett. It's absolutely brilliant, and easy to find since it came out within the last several years and did well. Bel Canto shows that third-person omniscient can feel like multiple-character third-person limited. In other words, you don't actually have to use third-person limited to get that feeling of being very close to/in the heads of characters.
PlanetCaravan
Registered
here's one that popped into my head. I'm sure others will chime in
Dean Koontz.
One door away from heaven
I think it has 4 or 5 POVs (one of them in present tense)
Dean Koontz.
One door away from heaven
I think it has 4 or 5 POVs (one of them in present tense)
As I recall, Tony Hillerman's southwestern mysteries are narrated in this fashion, with two or three 3rd-limited POV characters. It's been a while since I read one, though.
caw
caw
Odds are if it's a genre book and it's in 3rd it's limited. pretty well all romance novels in 3rd are limited. spy novels and thrillers in third are limited. usually omniscient is used for literary novels.
all suz brockmann books are 3rd limited usually with about 4 or 5 POV's if not more. not confusing because the character voices are different and she makes it clear whose pov it is within the first paragraph usually.
I don't read fantasy so I can't give you examples there and the only sci fi books i remember reading are in first.
all suz brockmann books are 3rd limited usually with about 4 or 5 POV's if not more. not confusing because the character voices are different and she makes it clear whose pov it is within the first paragraph usually.
I don't read fantasy so I can't give you examples there and the only sci fi books i remember reading are in first.
Thanks.
Is 3 or 4 POV characters in 3rd limited too many?
Right now, I focus most of the time on the MC's POV, but the story involves a long journey and I spend some at various points on the POV of the two people she's traveling with.
Is 3 or 4 POV characters in 3rd limited too many?
Right now, I focus most of the time on the MC's POV, but the story involves a long journey and I spend some at various points on the POV of the two people she's traveling with.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,793
- Reaction score
- 232
- Location
- Grumpyville
- Website
- imablogginghorse.blogspot.com
No it's not too many but ask yourself if you really need those POV's. do they advance the plot? Do they add to character development. Or are they just there to give us a break from the MC? A POV can be thrown in as comic relief but it always has to advance plot, character development, or both.
You can have 5 or 6 or 7 POV's as long as you keep the voices distinct, you tell the reader immediately whose POV they're in and as long as there's a really good reason to have that POV. Don't give us one chapter in a character's POV and never visit him again, unless you do that for all your characters. When you're thinking about POV switching, also think about the structure and symmetry of the novel as an entity.
Anything can be done if you do it well.
Like I said, Brockman's books have up to 6 or 7 POV's and it's never jarring or distracting. Good luck.
It's usually best to keep the number of POV chars as low as possible, but as long as your story needs all of them, three or four is fine.
No it's not too many but ask yourself if you really need those POV's. do they advance the plot? Do they add to character development. Or are they just there to give us a break from the MC? A POV can be thrown in as comic relief but it always has to advance plot, character development, or both.
You can have 5 or 6 or 7 POV's as long as you keep the voices distinct, you tell the reader immediately whose POV they're in and as long as there's a really good reason to have that POV. Don't give us one chapter in a character's POV and never visit him again, unless you do that for all your characters. When you're thinking about POV switching, also think about the structure and symmetry of the novel as an entity.
Anything can be done if you do it well.
My story is fairly complex and the other 3 POV characters (besides the MC) have a long history with the villain and have a huge emotional stake in seeing her defeated. I probably could write it only from my MC's POV, but it is a story where the plot/chaos has been going on for 30 years before she arrived on the scene. I feel I need these other character's POV's to show the hell the villian has put them through and make the ending more satisfying. I hope that makes sense. I was initially going to write 3rd omniscient but I realized I really want my readers to connect the most with my MC. This is my first novel and it's adapted from a script, so POV has been my biggest issue.
A Game of Thrones is third limited and has eight POV characters (plus another one for the prologue only). So no, 3-4 is not too many, as long as they are all necessary and all distinct from each other.
My own WIP (currently around 102k words pre-revisions), is third limited with three major POVs and two minor ones.
My own WIP (currently around 102k words pre-revisions), is third limited with three major POVs and two minor ones.
and doesn't the sequel have about fifteen or twenty?
just make sure they're all equally compelling. I dislike it when I'm fascinated by one or two characters' stories in limited 3rd, but bored by others... I find myself wanting to skim to get to the interesting narrators.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about POV, probably because there's a lot of conflicting stuff on the Internet, and because writing nerds tend to complicate things.
Third person limited/singular means that the story is told in third person, with a single character's POV. It's like first person, with Jack or Mary taking the place of the "I" character, except that the selected character doesn't talk directly to the reader (at least, not as narrator). So there is no third person limited with three or four (or even two) characters.
When you have several character POVs in a third person story, that's called third person unlimited/multiple. Theoretically, there's no limit to the number of insight characters, but like the practice of switching types of POV in a story, things can get ridiculous.
Third person omniscient is redundant. Omniscient POV doesn't exist in first or second person POV (unless the first person POV is that of God).
Omniscient POV causes the most confusion. Here it's useful to think of POV in terms of permissions. First person gives the writer permission to see into the mind (or through the eyes) of one character, the "I" character. The same is true of third person singular, but with a named character. Third person multiple gives the writer permission to see into the mind of more than one of the characters. Omniscient POV also gives the writer permission to see into the mind of more than one character. In addition, it gives the writer permission to divulge information that the characters are not aware of. The writer can describe scenes when no characters are present.
But here's the critical thing about permissions: Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to. Just because you've adopted a third person multiple POV doesn't mean you have to provide insight into more than two characters, does it? Permission doesn't equate obligation. So omniscient POV can allow the writer to both tell the story as an all-knowing source, while at the same time revealing the thoughts of the characters. Or not. There are a lot of things to use or abuse. Or confuse, if one loves strict definitions.
So if you decide to utilize omniscient POV to open a story with a description of a valley where no characters are present, a place where none of the story's characters have yet visited, that doesn't mean you have to play the know-it-all throughout the story. There are uses of omniscient POV that do tend to lock the writer in to an aspect of the POV for the duration, such as telling of relationships that your insight characters are unaware of, or considerable revealing of events none of them are witness to, but even so, that doesn't necessarily change the way the writer treats insight into characters. Remember the permissions.
Some confuse objective POV with omniscient. Objective POV can mimic omniscient in scenes such as the valley I mentioned. But with objective POV, there is no permission to employ insight into characters. It's strictly limited to reporting the actions and dialogue of the characters, and the settings that exist in the story. The character's minds are locked up tight, even if their mouths aren't. Just as in real life. Or in most movies.
So the permissions should be observed, but if you want to use an omniscient POV to describe something that requires it--a space station, saturated with radiation and filled with corpses, revolving slowly in space--then do so without feeling the need to work Buck Rogers into the scene. The next scene, where Buck does arrive, will allow you to dip into the heads of our intrepid space cowboy and his sidekick without breaking any rules at all. You can even reveal that both men are wearing the same Wiley Coyote boxer briefs--something that neither knows--if that enhances your story and doesn't stick out as an isolated gimmick.
Happy writing.
Third person limited/singular means that the story is told in third person, with a single character's POV. It's like first person, with Jack or Mary taking the place of the "I" character, except that the selected character doesn't talk directly to the reader (at least, not as narrator). So there is no third person limited with three or four (or even two) characters.
When you have several character POVs in a third person story, that's called third person unlimited/multiple. Theoretically, there's no limit to the number of insight characters, but like the practice of switching types of POV in a story, things can get ridiculous.
Third person omniscient is redundant. Omniscient POV doesn't exist in first or second person POV (unless the first person POV is that of God).
Omniscient POV causes the most confusion. Here it's useful to think of POV in terms of permissions. First person gives the writer permission to see into the mind (or through the eyes) of one character, the "I" character. The same is true of third person singular, but with a named character. Third person multiple gives the writer permission to see into the mind of more than one of the characters. Omniscient POV also gives the writer permission to see into the mind of more than one character. In addition, it gives the writer permission to divulge information that the characters are not aware of. The writer can describe scenes when no characters are present.
But here's the critical thing about permissions: Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to. Just because you've adopted a third person multiple POV doesn't mean you have to provide insight into more than two characters, does it? Permission doesn't equate obligation. So omniscient POV can allow the writer to both tell the story as an all-knowing source, while at the same time revealing the thoughts of the characters. Or not. There are a lot of things to use or abuse. Or confuse, if one loves strict definitions.
So if you decide to utilize omniscient POV to open a story with a description of a valley where no characters are present, a place where none of the story's characters have yet visited, that doesn't mean you have to play the know-it-all throughout the story. There are uses of omniscient POV that do tend to lock the writer in to an aspect of the POV for the duration, such as telling of relationships that your insight characters are unaware of, or considerable revealing of events none of them are witness to, but even so, that doesn't necessarily change the way the writer treats insight into characters. Remember the permissions.
Some confuse objective POV with omniscient. Objective POV can mimic omniscient in scenes such as the valley I mentioned. But with objective POV, there is no permission to employ insight into characters. It's strictly limited to reporting the actions and dialogue of the characters, and the settings that exist in the story. The character's minds are locked up tight, even if their mouths aren't. Just as in real life. Or in most movies.
So the permissions should be observed, but if you want to use an omniscient POV to describe something that requires it--a space station, saturated with radiation and filled with corpses, revolving slowly in space--then do so without feeling the need to work Buck Rogers into the scene. The next scene, where Buck does arrive, will allow you to dip into the heads of our intrepid space cowboy and his sidekick without breaking any rules at all. You can even reveal that both men are wearing the same Wiley Coyote boxer briefs--something that neither knows--if that enhances your story and doesn't stick out as an isolated gimmick.
Happy writing.
Says who? Surely it depends on the story and what you are trying to do with it. All those huge Fantasy things have a cast of thousands and who knows how many POVs - though they are usually all tight( limited) third.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 43,746
- Reaction score
- 8,654
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Website
- www.amazon.com
Are they limited? Or are they omniscient?
I can't imagine an epic fantasy with 20 major characters being handled by 3rd limited. In this case, I think most certainly the thing should be written in omniscient.
"Usually" isn't the same as "always". There are no absolutes in writing. Still, some things are the smart way to bet.
Of course it depends on the story. Use as many POV chars as your story needs, but take a good, hard look at each one to be sure it really is needed. POV is a powerful tool when used carefully; spreading it too thin, however, weakens the story. Any time you can combine two lesser POV chars into one, your story is likely to be stronger for doing so.
A huge epic, purely by virtue of having more words and more subplots, can support more POV chars than an average-length novel. Even so, not all epics need that many. Have some gotten published anyway? Sure. But what does that have to do with making your story the best it can be?
I've read enough with a series of different voices, all in limited third. Actually a huge number of books are written that way, I've always rather seen it as the default.
I don't write long books but I've certainly used five or six viewpoint characters for some things all in tight third with one dominant perpective and the others just filling in for the odd chapter here and there. You can pretty well do anything you like with viewpoint - whatever works.
Sometimes you want omniscient sometimes you don't - there is no 'should' involved.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 43,746
- Reaction score
- 8,654
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Website
- www.amazon.com
Can you name a few that has more than five or six POV characters written in 3rd limited, and not omniscient?
- Status