Magical Realism? Where should this question go?

backslashbaby · Feb 15, 2009

I have a couple of questions for folks who are familiar with features of magical realism vs. fantasy or sci-fi. Where should I post it, please?

Next time, should I ask it here and not worry about where it is moved? Thanks

dpaterso · Feb 16, 2009

I'd suggest Science Fiction/Fantasy discussion forum:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39

-Derek

shakeysix · Feb 16, 2009

i've taken a couple of spanish lit. classes on magical reality, read a few books. i don't enjoy reading it but i might be able to help.--s6

Toothpaste · Feb 16, 2009

I write magical realism, what's up? (though I agree this thread might be better placed in the SF/Fantasy section)

dpaterso · Feb 16, 2009

If this thread contained the actual question then sure, I'd move it to Sci-Fi/Fantasy -- but it only asks where the question should be posted.

-Derek

maestrowork · Feb 16, 2009

I'm not sure if MR belongs to SF/F though. They certainly are not necessarily grouped under those categories commercially. Most are considered "general fiction."

I think MR would be appropriate for the "Writing Novel" sub forum.

I also write MR, so fire away your questions.

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2009

I'll just ask it next time - thanks!

If a magical occurrence is pondered/wondered about in MR fiction, does that automatically disqualify it from that style? It is not questioned; they believe that the occurrence is real.

The 'pondering' in my case is pretty clear allegory and not the usual way folks would react... does that make it more similar to MR?

If mine is a sci-fi novel, it is a rotten one

There is not enough 'magic' in it, and it's not really about the magic, you know?

maestrowork · Feb 16, 2009

You mean if some characters wonder if ghosts exist, but no ghosts actually exist in the novel -- would it still be considered magic realism?

I don't think it would. Then again, if there are unexplainable phenomenon but never a real proof, it could be considered MR. Have you seen the movie Phenomenon with John Travolta? It's hard to define if it's magic realism because it appears to be, the characters thought it was, but at the end it turns out to be something else.

Also, what about ghost stories such as The Lovely Bones? Is it considered fantasy? Drama? Or general fiction with magical realism elements?

I think MR is one of those gray areas that may not be easily defined and it's up to the publishers to figure out how to market it...

Toothpaste · Feb 16, 2009

Honestly I'm not sure. As you yourself mentioned, the whole point behind the "magical" elements in MR is that they aren't pondered over. But seeing as you are aware of that fact, and still think it would work . . . could you describe it in more detail maybe?

shakeysix · Feb 16, 2009

so if you were walking across your patio to throw some rotten crabs into the sea and found a a very old man lying face down in the mud, impeded by his very enormous wings, would you turn it into a science fiction story by making the man a visitor from another planet with powers and abilities or would you write about the very mundane life of the entire village?--s6

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2009

Now this is nice! I was trying to describe the set-up of the magical part and how it was handled to a 'writer' friend of mine, and he just didn't email me back

maestro, in your example, there would definitely be a ghost. But I have folks reacting to the fact that it is a ghost... just in an odd, allegorical way. Phenomenon is actually more reacting to the magic than I'd be getting at, so that's nice to see (assuming it was magic for that point).

I'll check out The Lovely Bones! Thank you.

Toothpaste and shakeysix... more detail; let's see. If it were the GGMarquez angel tale, folks might know it's an angel. They might wonder if it couldn't be something else. But they'd still try to sell him to the circus, and nobody would question the reality of the angel. What they would do with him/think about him is exactly where the political/societal allegory comes in.

And are you allowed to wonder what the angel would think?

Still not sci-fi, I'm hoping (just because sci-fi needs more things than mine will give on many elements).

I like the lack of explanations for WHY in MR, whereas my friend's last words to me were, "You'd have to know more reason for why what was going on was going on".

Williebee · Feb 16, 2009

I think MR is one of those gray areas that may not be easily defined and it's up to the publishers to figure out how to market it...

And there, in a couple of words, is the difficulty I've had in pitching my last two books. One of the brightest days of my life was sitting across from an agent who actually said, "Hey, that's Magic Realism!" She passed on it (after a full read), but she knew what it was!

Back on topic -- Ghosts are a bit different but, if everyone knew it was a ghost, and treated it as a means to an end, as they would the town pickup truck, then yeah, I think you could sit inside the lines of MR.

Toothpaste · Feb 16, 2009

Okay the way you are describing it seems like you aren't having people discussing whether angels/ghosts are real, nor where it came from, but more like what it's like to be an angel/ghost, or rather what that means to be and angel/ghost. Sort of, if I am making sense. I think as long as you aren't explaining away its existence with, "Well we know it's a ghost because there is this portal to another world just over here" you should be fine. You can acknowledge that the character is paranormal or "magical", I just think you can't try to rationalise why it is there.

So I think you are good. Unless what I wrote above is a totally wrong interpretation of what you were saying, lol!

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2009

Toothpaste said:
Okay the way you are describing it seems like you aren't having people discussing whether angels/ghosts are real, nor where it came from, but more like what it's like to be an angel/ghost, or rather what that means to be and angel/ghost. Sort of, if I am making sense. I think as long as you aren't explaining away its existence with, "Well we know it's a ghost because there is this portal to another world just over here" you should be fine. You can acknowledge that the character is paranormal or "magical", I just think you can't try to rationalise why it is there.

So I think you are good. Unless what I wrote above is a totally wrong interpretation of what you were saying, lol!

Exactly! And that sounds too strange to folks, but I swear I don't WANT to explain all the things like sci-fi might with this work. The supernatural not being explained is very important to how the rest of it gets done.

Williebee said:
And there, in a couple of words, is the difficulty I've had in pitching my last two books. One of the brightest days of my life was sitting across from an agent who actually said, "Hey, that's Magic Realism!" She passed on it (after a full read), but she knew what it was!

Back on topic -- Ghosts are a bit different but, if everyone knew it was a ghost, and treated it as a means to an end, as they would the town pickup truck, then yeah, I think you could sit inside the lines of MR.

Good, good

I'd love to read the work you wrote that you mentioned, btw, and I don't know how authors feel about that, so we'll just forget I said that if need be

Williebee · Feb 16, 2009

There are cultures in this world where "ghost" is just a stage of life, like childhood, teenager, etc.

"Grandpa's not much help with the woodcutting these days, but at least he don't finish off the last beer anymore."

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2009

That line is brilliant.

MMcDonald64 · Feb 16, 2009

I never heard of magical realism. Is that a sub-genre? Thing is, my story probably fits under it, if it is. I have a magical element that gives the main character a special ability, but that ability gets him into some very real trouble. The main aspect of the story is the trouble and how it effects the main character, not so much the magical element.

Toothpaste · Feb 16, 2009

Here's a blog post I wrote on the subject with links to some other articles and you can decide for yourself! Note, Magical Realism isn't just magic in a realistic setting. That could also be urban fantasy or a variety of other genres. Anyway, here it is: http://ididntchoosethis.blogspot.com/2007/12/magical-realism.html

backslashbaby · Feb 16, 2009

I adore your blog, toothpaste

The MR discussion is right along what I've been reading. I will absolutely check out your book; thank you!!

MMcDonald64 said:
I never heard of magical realism. Is that a sub-genre? Thing is, my story probably fits under it, if it is. I have a magical element that gives the main character a special ability, but that ability gets him into some very real trouble. The main aspect of the story is the trouble and how it effects the main character, not so much the magical element.

For me (and I'm still trying to grasp this) that question falls again to the reaction to magic question. Is there anything odd about the way the magic is taken? Or is it considered as fantastic and shocking or not real - the way people would normally react to magic? If I'm understanding it correctly, there is a definite element of unusual reaction, or usually even non-reaction, to the magic in MR.

For more example works, I just read that both Beloved and Like Water for Chocolate are MR.

Sary · Feb 17, 2009

Ooh. Helpful thread. I think the MG novel I'm submitting now might fit into magic realism. It's largely a story about a girl trying to make things right with her family. But to believe the story, you have to be able to believe, very matter-of-factly, that this girl can repeatedly hear a factory whistle that hasn't blown in a decade and that no one else can hear.

MMcDonald64 · Feb 17, 2009

backslashbaby said:
I adore your blog, toothpaste The MR discussion is right along what I've been reading. I will absolutely check out your book; thank you!!

For me (and I'm still trying to grasp this) that question falls again to the reaction to magic question. Is there anything odd about the way the magic is taken? Or is it considered as fantastic and shocking or not real - the way people would normally react to magic? If I'm understanding it correctly, there is a definite element of unusual reaction, or usually even non-reaction, to the magic in MR.

For more example works, I just read that both Beloved and Like Water for Chocolate are MR.

In my story, only the main character knows about the magic. He tries to tell some people about it, because he is in very big trouble, but he doesn't have the magical item with him and can't get to it, so nobody believes him. He's looked at as a nutcase. So, is that magical realism? By the end of the story, at least one, possibly two other people will know about it. Other than this one bit of 'magic', the story is very firmly based in reality.

Toothpaste · Feb 17, 2009

Doesn't sound like it. Did you read my blog entry on the subject that I posted above as a direct response to your question? It will really help you out in defining what Magical Realism is (and not just with what I wrote, I link to some really helpful articles as well). Also did you read the part in my response to your post that said "Note, Magical Realism isn't just magic in a realistic setting"?

MMcDonald64 · Feb 17, 2009

Toothpaste said:
Doesn't sound like it. Did you read my blog entry on the subject that I posted above as a direct response to your question? It will really help you out in defining what Magical Realism is (and not just with what I wrote, I link to some really helpful articles as well). Also did you read the part in my response to your post that said "Note, Magical Realism isn't just magic in a realistic setting"?

I did read it, and parts of it sounded totally unlike my story, but there was one part that made me wonder. I think it was about the magic being an obligation for the character, as in, he doesn't really want it, but he feels compelled to use it. That fits perfectly. I can't quote the part right now because I'm at work and your link is blocked here.

maestrowork · Feb 17, 2009

I think it depends on if the magic is considered "magic" -- something unreal, unnatural, etc. or is it just part of the "real world."

For example, ghosts in Chinese culture are considered just a part of the nature. So in that sense, it's magical realism if you write about a Chinese family and the daughter happens to like to talk to her dead grandmother after dinner.

Or like in Like Water For Chocolate, the character's ability to affect others with her food may be a surprise to her, but it's not seen by anyone as unnatural or unreal. It's just part of that world, as if she had just discovered she could sing.

On the other hand, Harry Potter is not magical realism in that their magical powers are considered unnatural to the muggles. They may be natural to the wizards and witches, and but it's often considered "forbidden" in the real world. It's treated as something fantastical. In that sense, Harry Potter is a fantasy.

MMcDonald64 · Feb 17, 2009

maestrowork said:
I think it depends on if the magic is considered "magic" -- something unreal, unnatural, etc. or is it just part of the "real world."

For example, ghosts in Chinese culture are considered just a part of the nature. So in that sense, it's magical realism if you write about a Chinese family and the daughter happens to like to talk to her dead grandmother after dinner.

Or like in Like Water For Chocolate, the character's ability to affect others with her food may be a surprise to her, but it's not seen by anyone as unnatural or unreal. It's just part of that world, as if she had just discovered she could sing.

On the other hand, Harry Potter is not magical realism in that their magical powers are considered unnatural to the muggles. They may be natural to the wizards and witches, and but it's often considered "forbidden" in the real world. It's treated as something fantastical. In that sense, Harry Potter is a fantasy.

Ah! Okay. I guess mine is more an element of fantasy then. It is definitely not considered normal by anyone in my story, not even the guy who has the magic.

Magical Realism? Where should this question go?

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