Multiple Cultural Integration

[Antaeus]

The fantasy novel I'm working on involved three different human cultures, loosely based off historical equivalencies. Basically, they consist of one based from the Roman Empire, another based off Feudal England, and a third based in many ways off Indian (not Native American,) cultures.

The difficulty is that they all share a continent, even though the characteristics of their respective areas are different; the Empire is found in fertile lands with a mild climate, Nierrak (the Indian culture,) in somewhat hotter, more arid conditions, and the Feudal England culture is in a cold, northern zone.

My concern addresses the Empire and Nierrak, and whether or not it would be feasible in having them in relatively close proximity, with shifting climate gradually taking place between borders, and appropriate cultural blending as a result, or if I should try dividing them up in a more severe fashion, via mass of water or mountain range. The fact that Nierrak is supposed to be, at the time of the novel, subordinate to the Empire due to expansion and political takeover would make the latter idea a little more undesirable.

I know fantasy tends to have the 'A Wizard Did It' clause, but I'd rather not push my luck...

Comments? Suggestions?

I just hoped I managed to speak semi-clearly...

[Perle_Rare]

Geography: If you have a fairly flat land, it's not likely to have one arrid section, one normal section and one nordic section. There has to be some sort of reason why one section is colder and why one section is arrid. Why does it rain in the middle but not in the arrid area? Normally, a mountain is involved. As the air mass moves over the mountain, it cools down and drops its rain on that side of the mountain. As the air moves past the mountain, it no longer contains moisture so the other side of the mountain is fairly dry. Think Vancouver (very wet) and Alberta (fairly dry) and you'll find mountains in the middle.

Similarly, why would one region be colder? Could it be by the ocean at the point where an arctic current runs past the coast?

Just make sure you've got at least some reason for your extreme climates within proximity of each other and, as a reader, I'll accept it. Heck, the largest of the Hawaiian islands has a rain forest on one side and a semi-arrid part on the other and the island is only 150 km across. Reason: there's a large volcano in the middle.

Cultural blending: That's the tougher one. If there's no geographical (or other believable) barrier to impede travel, people will explore and get to know their neighbours, either in war, business or pleasure. Blending will definitely occur and probably to the point where your various cultures would simply have become one a long time ago.

Again, you'd have to give me a good reason why this has not occurred. Maybe one group found a specific reason to hang on to their culture. Think of the Québécois and the English Canadians. There was no geographical barrier to separate the two but the French kept their language and culture. How? Why? Give me that kind of information and I'll happily accept your premise.

Question for you though: Why would the fact that Nierrak is subordinate to the Empire preclude having it be isolated from said Empire? There was an age when the sun never set on the British Empire. The fact that the subordinate countries weren't attached to Britain in any geographical way never bothered anybody.

BTW, welcome to the cooler! :welcome:

[Antaeus]

Danke, both for the welcome and the help. ^_^

However, part of the fictional Empire's weakness is its relatively weak naval capabilities, due to an easily accessible current of quite literally supernatural origins. Still, maybe the premise could use some tweaking. ^^

[Barpaio]

This may sound random, but what mode of transportation is available in this realm? If people can travel extremely fast, then any distance could feasibly be very close in terms of commute. In thsi way, the lands could be separated by vast tracts of land or mountain ranges etc... and still be relatively "close together". Just an idea.

[Juliette Wade]

Welcome to AW, Antaeus.
Your question leads me to wonder if you have conceptualized an entire planet for your story or only a single continent. I could see two very different civilizations growing apart because of physical barriers, but the other possibility is that one or more of these civilizations originated on another continent and moved to this one relatively later.

The other note I'd like to make is that two civilizations who coexist in an area will not necessarily have cultural blending. There are always reasons for this, be they language reasons or religious reasons or racial reasons etc. But if you look at the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, or the Jews and Palestinians, or the Turks and the Kurds, you can see that perceived cultural divisions have enormous staying power even when people co-occupy a relatively small area.

I think if you need to have wide climate variation, you'll have to change some things, have mountains, etc. - but to have wide cultural variation, even within similar climates, you could just dig a little deeper into these people's history. That could also give you some insight into the rise of your Empire and help you explore the nuances of the Empire's interaction with its subjects and neighbors.

I hope this helps.

[maestrowork]

One only need to study Europe or Asia to see how that could work.

And within the borders of China, there are many minority races and cultures. I think it really depends on how you construct your world -- are these realms fairly isolated, like China? Or are they open, like Europe?

[Antaeus]

I was thinking of natural obstacles separating each civilization; a desert, maybe, ringing Nierrak, as it would bring to mind the relative isolation and security Egypt had enjoyed due to the relative difficulty of reaching it. The northern Kingdom would actually be blocked off by mountain ranges, and likely have more than a few mountains within its territories, with relatively rocky terrain throughout.

I suppose what I'm aiming for are civilizations influenced by their surroundings; the Empire would actually be an amalgamation of differant villages and cities formed hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, a civilization aided by the naturally fertile terrain. Over time, they would have expanded their field of influence until coming across the natural barriers of the coast, the desert, and the mountains. The mountains would be by far the easiest to traverse, but it would be nearly impossible to send an army through the narrow passes, and the land beyond not quite valuable enough to waste so much strength obtaining, so the Empire would settle for alliance with those who resided in the northern lands. As their last expansion, aside from Nierrak, occured a couple of centuries ago, and the general Imperial drive is assimilation and integration, many of the descendants of annexed societies would have been effectively Imperialized...

(For the record, 'Imperialized' is officially a word now.)

The Nierrak would still retain a large degree of their cultural distinction for two reasons. First, the annexing of their territories, (a political takeover more than a military one,) was relatively recent, only seven decades ago, and so even the Empire's other annexed societies would have retained some distinctive characteristics. This is further aided by the fact that the desert leaves Nierrak relatively isolated from the Empire; the only truly accessible manners are by giant, well-provisioned convoy or by ship, and so this lack of easy travel between the Heartland and its newest province would slightly limit both military travel and the natural migration of citizens between territories, especially if such citizens are of average of below average income.

As for the Northern kingdom's specifics, I'm still chewing on the details, but I'm mostly depending on the mountain ranges to isolate them, as it would be these mountains that also give the dwarven race in my novel some isolation from the outside world.


To summarize, and to answer maestrowork's question, the Empire's territories, excluding Nierrak, are easy to traverse. Nierrak itself is easy to traverse, as is the Northern kingdom, but it's traveling between these realms that prove difficult.

To summarize and answer Barpaio's question, travel within the Empire and Northern Kingdom is typically accomplished on horseback, with the Empire having traded horse stocks to the Kingdom. Naturally, travel along the mountain passes is typically accomplished on foot, or via extremely careful horseback. Travel within Nierrak is usually done by foot; ironically, the Empire first got horses from Nierrak, but their fertile land and colder climate made it a little easier to breed them in larger numbers. Travel between Nierrak and the Empire is done by boat, via a water channel of supernatural (or, rather, divine,) origins, discovered about a century ago.

[dirtsider]

Another idea is that while the Empire may have taken over tge Nierrak lands, they only do so through administrative means, rather than wholesale destruction of the culture of their new territories. I believe the Roman Empire pretty much did this in real life. They put in new governors and other political figures but left things alone at the local, cultural level. They may have required their new subjects to pay taxes and lipservice to the Roman gods but didn't get rid of the old gods in the meantime.

[Antaeus]

Aye, that's what I meant by political takeover. Decided it'd be far more likely for the Empire to ensure a gradual transition of power via the bribing of officials, and over the decades to implement small changes that would be considered relatively minor to the citizens. The first decade or so of 'control' would find no appreciable differance for the common Nierrakan, but eventually they would tighten their hold, with alterations that would scarcely be noticed.

[ideagirl]

Geography: If you have a fairly flat land, it's not likely to have one arrid section, one normal section and one nordic section. There has to be some sort of reason why one section is colder and why one section is arrid. Why does it rain in the middle but not in the arrid area? Normally, a mountain is involved....Similarly, why would one region be colder? Could it be by the ocean at the point where an arctic current runs past the coast?

Excellent advice. And the mountains don't have to be big Alpine/Rocky Mountain-style impassible ones; for example, the "mountains" (they're really more like hills) just inland from San Francisco make the climate on the other side much sunnier and warmer than San Francisco. In that area, I once experienced a fifty-degree temperature shift in a single summer day: 105 degrees in Walnut Creek, 70-something in San Francisco, and 56 down the coast and right on the water in Half Moon Bay. The range isn't usually that big, but it certainly can happen, and you can see on a map how absurdly close to each other those places are. You can drive from WC to SF in 25 minutes, and down to HMB in another half hour. It's the "mountains" (big hills) and huge bodies of water that allow such shifts.


Cultural blending: That's the tougher one. If there's no geographical (or other believable) barrier to impede travel, people will explore and get to know their neighbours, either in war, business or pleasure. Blending will definitely occur and probably to the point where your various cultures would simply have become one a long time ago.

Not sure about that. You need only look at Europe for proof: to this day, despite the technological revolution in travel (high speed trains, planes etc.), and despite the fact it's been nearly half a century since the founding of the European Community (now the EU), the cultures of each country, and even the subcultures within each country, remain distinct. Italy, for example, was not even a unified country until about 1850, and to this day there are places in Italy where people speak some ancient dialect and only learn Italian at school.

In the OP's book, as long as each culture developed its own language, the cultures will remain distinct. That's all the more true if they also developed their own religions or variants on the same religion (a la Catholic vs. Protestant).

Why would the fact that Nierrak is subordinate to the Empire preclude having it be isolated from said Empire? There was an age when the sun never set on the British Empire. The fact that the subordinate countries weren't attached to Britain in any geographical way never bothered anybody.

Good point.